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Old 03-16-2019, 09:36 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by damientheomen3 View Post
I do see how it's unclear that I meant UDFAs though, especially since I had the word 'draftees' in there. These posts are usually stream-of-consciousness posts I write on my phone on my breaks at work.
Understood
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EDIT: To play devil's advocate to your point on early versus late draftees, early round picks are often athletic marvels drafted on that merit rather than productive college players, especially in the second round. Usually the productive but unathletic guys are falling to the mid-to-late rounds if they're drafted at all, but give me a Jarvis Landry over a DK Metcalf any day. Also, most players who go later will feel slighted, whereas some players who are drafted early can feel more secure because they're getting paid and their roster spot is safe for at least two years. Not making any excuses for Gettleman, but overall his track record in the second round isn't too bad (Short was a great pick, Funchess was close to expected production for a second rounder, Bradberry has a great season, an awful season and a decent season on his resume, Ealy was a bust and Samuel has been a decent gadget player so far), really it's just the first round.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Like Billy Joel said "You may be wrong for all I know, but you may be right." I think Funchess was a fail. He shifted between TE & WR @ Michigan & they tried to make him into a full time WR. I disagreed w/the pick @ the time. Thought the Panthers needed a WR. But Funch was better suited to be a receiving TE. And I think history has proved me right. Bradberry is a so-so corner. He gets toasted too many times for my taste. And it can't be emphasized enough Bradberry was drafted to fill a hole DG created by getting rid of Josh Norman for nothing.
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Old 03-17-2019, 12:39 AM   #62
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UnderstoodWe'll have to agree to disagree. Like Billy Joel said "You may be wrong for all I know, but you may be right." I think Funchess was a fail. He shifted between TE & WR @ Michigan & they tried to make him into a full time WR. I disagreed w/the pick @ the time. Thought the Panthers needed a WR. But Funch was better suited to be a receiving TE. And I think history has proved me right. Bradberry is a so-so corner. He gets toasted too many times for my taste. And it can't be emphasized enough Bradberry was drafted to fill a hole DG created by getting rid of Josh Norman for nothing.
Yeah Funchess was a reach. Was getting round 3-5 hype for being an unathletic receiver/undersized tight end hybrid. He did have a solid run of games in his one good year though. It'll be interesting to see how he works out in Indy.
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spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
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Old 03-17-2019, 12:42 PM   #63
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I read some draft predictions and a lot of them have the cardinals taking Murray at #1. Some have the raiders trading up and taking Murray.
I just dont see that. Derek Carr was bad for the first 5 games but he did get better. I think they got AB and Williams to see what Carr can do with some legit weapons and not to get Murray. Except for Cook Carr didnt have much to work with. If he fails then next year is when they would go get another qb.
For salary cap reasons they'll be keeping Carr this season. Besides that, I feel sorry for any team that drafts Murray. Not an NFL quarterback. How many Tim Tebow QBs are these dumb fools going to draft in the first round before they get the hint?

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Old 03-18-2019, 07:01 PM   #64
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For salary cap reasons they'll be keeping Carr this season. Besides that, I feel sorry for any team that drafts Murray. Not an NFL quarterback. How many Tim Tebow QBs are these dumb fools going to draft in the first round before they get the hint?
Murray is absolutely not a Tebow quarterback. Tebow's issue is that he just didn't have arm talent. Didn't throw consistent spirals, inaccurate, had an awfully long throwing motion from an NFL standpoint. Whereas the mainstream media was hyping Tebow as a first rounder at the time, the smarter draft publications were putting him down at a more appropriate level. The Broncos just reached badly for him.

Murray, meanwhile, was a great arm and terrific pocket presence. As Russell Wilson has shown, QBs that are athletic enough to move out of the pocket but keep their eyes downfield can have a ton of success, and Murray has shown that that can absolutely be his ceiling.

I'm not willing to go to bat for Murray though. Only 1 year.of starting experience, and he faced a ton of 3-man rushes in college because of his playstyle. The thing that gives me the most pause about him is that, while he weighed in at around 205 at both the combine and his pro day, he didn't run at either, leading me to believe he chunked up to have an NFL weight but wouldn't be playing at that weight, so he's at risk of getting his head taken off. To live up to the Russell Wilson comparisons, he's gonna have to be like Wilson and stay in incredible shape to offset his smaller stature.

Also, you can't forget that this is ultimately media hype. The Cardinals' coach happened to say that he would take Murray first overall if he could when he was coaching at Texas Tech. Cardinals GM Steve Keim didn't vouch for Rosen in the media, but doing so would drive down the value of the draft pick if they're looking to move down.
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spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:31 PM   #65
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Murray is absolutely not a Tebow quarterback. Tebow's issue is that he just didn't have arm talent. Didn't throw consistent spirals, inaccurate, had an awfully long throwing motion from an NFL standpoint. Whereas the mainstream media was hyping Tebow as a first rounder at the time, the smarter draft publications were putting him down at a more appropriate level. The Broncos just reached badly for him.

Murray, meanwhile, was a great arm and terrific pocket presence. As Russell Wilson has shown, QBs that are athletic enough to move out of the pocket but keep their eyes downfield can have a ton of success, and Murray has shown that that can absolutely be his ceiling.

I'm not willing to go to bat for Murray though. Only 1 year.of starting experience, and he faced a ton of 3-man rushes in college because of his playstyle. The thing that gives me the most pause about him is that, while he weighed in at around 205 at both the combine and his pro day, he didn't run at either, leading me to believe he chunked up to have an NFL weight but wouldn't be playing at that weight, so he's at risk of getting his head taken off. To live up to the Russell Wilson comparisons, he's gonna have to be like Wilson and stay in incredible shape to offset his smaller stature.

Also, you can't forget that this is ultimately media hype. The Cardinals' coach happened to say that he would take Murray first overall if he could when he was coaching at Texas Tech. Cardinals GM Steve Keim didn't vouch for Rosen in the media, but doing so would drive down the value of the draft pick if they're looking to move down.
A lot of QBs can look good in college when they have the talent surrounding them and overwhelming their opponents. In most cases that won't happen in the NFL. If you watched him against Alabama you saw a QB that looked scared and had a run first mentality. When I watch him play I don't see an NFL quarterback.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:52 PM   #66
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A lot of QBs can look good in college when they have the talent surrounding them and overwhelming their opponents. In most cases that won't happen in the NFL. If you watched him against Alabama you saw a QB that looked scared and had a run first mentality. When I watch him play I don't see an NFL quarterback.

I understand that, a lot of people that are against Kyler are using the Alabama game against him (never mind that Alabama would probably go 7-9 in the NFL with their year-in, year-out roster). But taken as a whole, he has shown traits that other QBs (basically just Russell Wilson) have used to become massively successful football players.


I follow ProFootballFocus heavily, and they always say, if you're just watching one game, or a couple games, or anything but every snap, you're limiting yourself. They're extremely high on Murray (not as high as they were on Baker Mayfield, but a bit higher than they were on Darnold). I certainly don't fall in that camp (although I haven't seen a single Kyler Murray throw), and I think his actions through the combine and his pro day have been dodgy, but I trust the media I follow enough to know Kyler at least isn't Tim Tebow.
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spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:04 AM   #67
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A If you watched him against Alabama you saw a QB that looked scared and had a run first mentality. When I watch him play I don't see an NFL quarterback.
He was scared to start. The whole teams was. But as the game went on, he got comfortable & the Sooners were moving the ball.
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Old 04-24-2019, 08:53 AM   #68
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Less than 36 hours away from my favorite sporting event of the year, the NFL draft!
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Originally Posted by axezzy View Post
spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:47 AM   #69
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He was scared to start. The whole teams was. But as the game went on, he got comfortable & the Sooners were moving the ball.
I agree. Saw the same thing you saw. But the NFL is not college and he's not going to have the luxury of getting comfortable against players that will be working desk jobs. I still say the dude is not an NFL quarterback let alone worthy of being drafted in the first round.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:19 PM   #70
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I agree. Saw the same thing you saw. But the NFL is not college and he's not going to have the luxury of getting comfortable against players that will be working desk jobs. I still say the dude is not an NFL quarterback let alone worthy of being drafted in the first round.
As a rookie, people will expect a growth curve. He might be intimidated his 1st practice. But it doesn't mean he will stay that way. Same for his 1st preseason game, reg season game, playoff game etc. Few players have come into the league & acted like they belonged from the first snap. If he is skittish after a year or so, then I could pass that judgement. But right now, all I see is player that went thru a normal adjustment period.
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:11 PM   #71
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Is there a betting line that Gruden does a Ditka and trades everything for Murray?
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:30 PM   #72
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I know d line was supposed to be the star position for this draft. Somehow, I'm still shocked that this many of the front have been picked this early in the 1st round. So far, 11 of 19 are getting to the QB. No RB's, WR's or DB's.
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:32 PM   #73
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I'm surprised D.K. Metcalf made it this far. I'm guessing the Cards will pick him up in the 2nd.
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:43 PM   #74
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I'm surprised D.K. Metcalf made it this far. I'm guessing the Cards will pick him up in the 2nd.
I heard the knock on him was that he is better in shorts than in pads. Great running a straight line. Mediocre making a cut.
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:59 AM   #75
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His 3-Cone time was slower than Tom Brady's when Brady was in the combine, so his change of direction skills are really subpar. Pro Football Focus likens him athletically to Martavis Bryant.

The first round was surprisingly devoid of drama. Clellin Ferrell to Oakland was definitely crazy, and then you have the Giants reaching for Jones, and Jawaan Taylor and Drew Lock still being on the board. But there was only 1 trade in the top 20 picks, that was pretty crazy.

I think the Cardinals pick Taylor or Metcalf to start the second round off, unless they keep stockpiling QBs and go Lock.
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spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
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Old 04-26-2019, 12:19 PM   #76
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The Giants pick at #6 made no sense. I liked their later pick of DT Dexter Lawrence. They needed to pick DT Ed Oliver at #6, and along with Lawrence they got it going. They could have picked up QB Jones or Lock with their 2nd round pick. As a Cowboys fan I am very happy that they didn't go that route.

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Old 04-26-2019, 03:32 PM   #77
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The Giants pick at #6 made no sense. I liked their later pick of DT Dexter Lawrence. They needed to pick DT Ed Oliver at #6, and along with Lawrence they got it going. They could have picked up QB Jones or Lock with their 2nd round pick. As a Cowboys fan I am very happy that they didn't go that route.
From earlier in this thread

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Gettleman ......... is faaaaaaaarrrrr from a draft guru. Last season's Panther roster had just 5 players he drafted over 5 yrs start. Only half of the picks he selected from the 1st 2 rounds are even with the team.

So like I said, I don't like him. Giants can have him.
Let's see how Giants fans feel about him..............
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:27 PM   #78
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Yeah, I'm not sold on Murray, either, at least not as #1. I think his upside is Russell Wilson-level, but the downside is Tebow - at best. But hey, if it doesn't work out, there's always baseball to fall back on.


Still waiting for the Colts to pick, as the Do-Nothing Offseason continues apace.
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Old 04-26-2019, 04:30 PM   #79
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NFL first round picks are the most overvalued commodity in all of sports and it's not close.

The Giants could have gotten Rosen with a 2nd round pick (possibly even less than that) and instead decide to burn a top 10 pick on Daniel Jones. This makes absolutely no sense. There is no way that any scouts in that organization have a higher grade on Jones than they did Rosen last year, but the Giants went for the new shiny QB anyway.

NFL GMs do not have realistic expectations of what their hit rate is going to be with their 1st round picks. The way they are valued, they must be assuming that every 1st rounder becomes a perennial pro bowler
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Old 04-26-2019, 05:07 PM   #80
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NFL first round picks are the most overvalued commodity in all of sports and it's not close.

The Giants could have gotten Rosen with a 2nd round pick (possibly even less than that) and instead decide to burn a top 10 pick on Daniel Jones. This makes absolutely no sense. There is no way that any scouts in that organization have a higher grade on Jones than they did Rosen last year, but the Giants went for the new shiny QB anyway.

NFL GMs do not have realistic expectations of what their hit rate is going to be with their 1st round picks. The way they are valued, they must be assuming that every 1st rounder becomes a perennial pro bowler
You're right. Miami is close to a deal for Rosen with their 2nd pick. I mentioned Oliver, I see fans wanted Allen. Either one would have been ok over Jones.
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