Anybody else watching the Knicks....

[Déjà Bru]

The Knicks have won two games in a row!

I find myself in that strange, uncomfortable position of, while being proud of a team that is obviously not tanking and is still trying to win regardless of how utterly terrible this season has been, also being concerned that each win is potentially hurting the team's chances in the draft lottery.

I hate this nonsense. I want a basketball team in which I can always be proud and never be hoping for losses to pile up.

[TheMaus2]

as long as they stay in the top 3 they have the same chances

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by TheMaus2

as long as they stay in the top 3 they have the same chances

Yes, they would have to win 5 games now for the Bulls to "catch up" so it looks safe. But how ridiculous it is to be having conversations like this. It was worse, of course, before they equalized the top (bottom) 3's chances.

I don't think any players purposely tank to improve draft lottery position. I don't see them caring as much as they do about losing and looking bad. I do think that coaches, general managers, and owners are very conscious of the situation and will do, or not do, things to improve the team's chances.

Which makes this a sick situation that "equal bottom 3" only partly resolves. If you are a game out of #4, do you start your best players? Do you hurry somebody back from injured reserve?

The more I think of it, the more I favor a random draft lottery. The system they have now damages the integrity of the sport.

[Déjà Bru]

Whew, that was a close one. The Knicks came within a dozen points of beating the Suns. That would have been a catastrophe!

[Cobra Mgr]

Here's hoping MSG starts some "Sell the team!" chants for the remainder of the Knicks season.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Here's hoping MSG starts some "Sell the team!" chants for the remainder of the Knicks season.

'Cuz, the only way that man will ever sell the team is if he has thousands of fans banned from the Garden for chanting that, rather than just the one fan who had the b*lls to open his mouth.

For the life of me, I don't see why MSG is not empty, or near so. (There will always be diehards and fans of the other team.) TV ratings should also be down. These are the things that change ownership.

But no, folks still come to the Garden by the thousands. 19,812 came to see the Knicks lose to the Sacramento Kings on Saturday. That is what facilitates the futility, year after year.

Don't look for James Dolan to be embarrassed out of town. He's not that kind of man. Hit him in the pocketbook and the team will be on the market, pronto. Keep going to and tuning in the games, well, you can blame yourselves for this debacle.

[Déjà Bru]

Huh? The Knicks beat LBJ and the Lakers (although there is something definitely wrong with that team, too)?!? What is going on here?

EDIT: I mean, look at this. Bizarre!

[Déjà Bru]

Well, this was a first: In all the decades that I have been following Knicks basketball, I have never tuned out so much that the season ended and I was not even aware that it had, until now. The last time I posted here was almost a month ago.

They finished 17-65 which, interestingly, did not set a new record for franchise futility; it tied with the team from only four years ago: 2014-2015. You remember, Derek Fisher, Carmelo Anthony, J.R. Smith, Amar'e Stoudemire.

Four years later, and we're right back where we were. From now on, I'm going to be tuning out earlier and earlier because, I just realized, for almost a month I have not been aggravated by the crappy product those bozos put out. It was a good feeling.

Heh, I hear you thinking: Typical fair weather fan jumping off the bandwagon. Facts:

• I've been following the Knicks since the 1970's.
• I've been following them through thick and thin, but
• Here is the record and the breaking point: In the 19 seasons of the 21st Century,
  • 1 team has played .600+ ball (2012-13)
  • 3 teams have played .500 - .600 ball (latest 2011-12)
  • 15 teams have played under .500 ball, including
    • 5 teams .400 to .500
    • 6 teams .300 to .400
    • 4 teams .200 to .300 (with two barely keeping above .200)

This, in one of the greatest basketball markets of the world and as part of an organization that has more money than God to spend. Just stupid, stupid mismanagement, year after year.

They will not get another goddamned dime from me, that's for sure. I'm even thinking about dropping cable. Not merely for this, of course, but it's part of the consideration, the satisfaction of not even paying for MSG indirectly.

I've reached a point in my life where I am actively seeking to reduce hassles and irritations. Chronic ones. I've learned that all it might take is a conscious decision to change habits. The habit changed in this case? Just what I started out with here, before it turned into a rant.

That is, I'm not even paying attention. There are going to have to be HEADLINES AND FANFARE, lots of it, in order for me to take notice of the New York Knickerbockers. Frankly, I don't give s**t about them otherwise.

[TheMaus2]

Originally Posted by TheMaus2

https://deadspin.com/knicks-say-kris...-or-1834974289
Kristaps threatened to go back to Europe if he wasn't traded?!?!
If this is true or just a red herring this is alarming for the Knicks organization. Why would you even want to leak this in the first place

.

[Déjà Bru]

darkhorse's reply immediately below your original post was spot on.

[Déjà Bru]

Just when there is a flicker of interest in Knicks affairs again . . .

The Knicks have been very busy of late, cutting ties with Elfrid Payton, Taj Gibson, Bobby Portis, Wayne Ellington, Kenny Wooten and Theo Pinson, per ESPN. They added Obi Toppin, Immanuel Quickley and Daniel Oturu through the draft before inking Myles Powell as an undrafted free agent. The free agency moves created over $40 million in cap space, per ESPN.

. . . there is word of this:

Carmelo Anthony Rumors: Some Teams Expect Veteran to Reunite with Knicks in FA

If that happens, this thread will likely go back into mothballs.

[Déjà Bru]

Heh, missed a transaction. Knicks fans' heads are spinning.

Rose then swung a deal Thursday afternoon with the Utah Jazz, who were trying to free up cap space. The Jazz will send the Knicks forward Ed Davis, who is due $5 million in the final year of his contract, and a pair of 2023 second-round picks. The Knicks will absorb the cost into their cap space, still leaving them with approximately $35 million to spend.

[rudel.dietrich]

I hope the Knicks embrace being bad and don’t offer Gordon Hayward a stupid big money contract.
The Knicks are doing well getting off big money and doing what they can in the draft. Keep doing that until you nail some draft picks and then when you actually have a chance, go after a big money FA.

[Déjà Bru]

I am sold on this guy already, just for this:

It has become in vogue for NBA players to join forces or shift allegiances to find the easiest path to success. But Austin Rivers insisted that his decision to join the Knicks as a free agent was not one of desperation, but a chance to build something special in what he still considers a magical place.

He knows his history, as his father, Doc Rivers, played for the Knicks in better days for the franchise. But the younger Rivers said that he had three or four playoff teams bidding for his services and he opted to sign on with the Knicks instead.

"We’re caught in an era where everyone likes riding a wave," Rivers said in a Zoom call. "People want to go to places that are already on the rise and going to franchises that are already doing really well. And people have lost interest in going somewhere and making something great again. I don’t understand someone not wanting to play for a city like New York. I just don’t get that. I don’t understand that. For me, the opportunity was obvious. In a city that is regarded as the mecca of basketball with the fans they have. Why not try to be part of something special?"

[rudel.dietrich]

For what it is worth. A about a week ago when I was doing my NBA before the season futures bets. I was looking over all this years rookies and taking into account the lack of a summer league, limited camp and who is most NBA ready.
Anyways, I ended up placing a wager on Obi Toppin at +700.
It would make me feel much better about my bet if they would trade Julius Randle...

[Déjà Bru]

Good to hear, thanks. Also FWIW, here is an apparently unsolicited opinion from Rivers as quoted in that article:

He said that he picked New York because he believed in new coach Tom Thibodeau, who worked for Doc Rivers and won a title in Boston, and the front office. But he also had praise for what he’s seen in rookie Obi Toppin and some of the young players.

Rivers has only seen glimpses of Toppin working out this week, but was awed.

"Obi Toppin is beyond a freak athlete." Rivers said. "He’s going to be really good. I know I obviously didn’t get to play against him last year but just seeing him in here, my God."

[Déjà Bru]

Anticipating tonight's opener against the Pacers, this image describes my level of interest and enthusiasm. It's a defense mechanism, to avoid the heartaches of seasons past. Lower interest and enthusiasm = lower risk of pain.



Yet, the meter reading is high enough for me to post here today.

[The Knicks] are back, but just how different they will be remains to be seen. Tom Thibodeau provides them with a high-level head coach. But if you consider the roster the Knicks started last season with and the one they have now it’s hard to see a huge upgrade — having lost Marcus Morris and gained Obi Toppin and Immanuel Quickley, subtracting Taj Gibson and Bobby Portis and inserting Nerlens Noel and Austin Rivers.

A 3-1 preseason in which the defense looked to show hints of a Thibodeau team, but the reality is that the talent is a level below nearly every team and Thibodeau has had an abbreviated opportunity to put his imprint on this group.

I can take another losing season but only if I have the feeling that the team is making progress.

[rudel.dietrich]

The team needs to embrace being bad and play the young guys.
Trade Julius Randle, and play Obi Toppin and Mitchell Robinson at least 30 minutes a game.
I am afraid they will still play the guys who have no long term future with the club. I don’t see the point in that futility.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

The team needs to embrace being bad and play the young guys.
Trade Julius Randle, and play Obi Toppin and Mitchell Robinson at least 30 minutes a game.
I am afraid they will still play the guys who have no long term future with the club. I don’t see the point in that futility.

Last night's 121-107 loss was more competitive than the score indicates. The Knicks looked good in the first half but wilted in the second. Still, not a bad start. Thibodeau will be rotating guys for a while, testing lineups, but I wouldn't feel bad if he continued to minimize Ntilikina and Smith as he did here:

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I wouldn't feel bad if he continued to minimize Ntilikina and Smith as he did here

If you look closely, Thibodeau chose to go with shooting guards, particularly Burks, spelling Payton rather than either of those guys when Quickley came out of the game with a hip pointer. And the article that I am reading says "The loss of Quickley, who collided with Indiana’s Myles Turner and suffered a hip pointer, certainly hurt as the rookie helped spur the team early."