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Old 07-14-2019, 03:08 PM   #1
chipschap1
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Unrealistic number of job offers

I think OOTP 20 still presents unrealistic job offers. I play in manager (not comissioner) mode. I have a huge fictional league. I start unemployed and get all sorts of job offers, everything from the Rookie leagues through the Majors! Doesn't seem real. A new inexperienced manager might get a few lower level offers, not more.

So I select a Rookie League offer and the season is going badly; my team is in last place right now at 2-6. I check the current job offers ... I have many of them, including a $320,000 offer from a top Major League team!

Really? A losing manager in the Rookie League?

Some number of iterations back (maybe OOTP 15, not sure) offers were much more realistic but the last few iterations they've been just not realistic, at least in my experience. I deal with this by not taking offers that I don't think I would have been offered in a more realistic situation, but that really isn't the best solution.
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Old 07-14-2019, 04:57 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipschap1 View Post
I think OOTP 20 still presents unrealistic job offers. I play in manager (not comissioner) mode. I have a huge fictional league. I start unemployed and get all sorts of job offers, everything from the Rookie leagues through the Majors! Doesn't seem real. A new inexperienced manager might get a few lower level offers, not more.

So I select a Rookie League offer and the season is going badly; my team is in last place right now at 2-6. I check the current job offers ... I have many of them, including a $320,000 offer from a top Major League team!

Really? A losing manager in the Rookie League?

Some number of iterations back (maybe OOTP 15, not sure) offers were much more realistic but the last few iterations they've been just not realistic, at least in my experience. I deal with this by not taking offers that I don't think I would have been offered in a more realistic situation, but that really isn't the best solution.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:36 AM   #3
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I quit playing the game in 'career mode' because of this very issue.
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Old 07-23-2019, 07:06 PM   #4
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I quit playing the game in 'career mode' because of this very issue.
I can understand that, but I like career mode, though it needs a lot of work.

One more example. I had started a large high school league and job offers were running in to $100,000-$300,000 range! For a high school baseball team manager?

On the other hand I also set up a small 8-team independent league with a short season schedule. Of course I was offered a job by every single team once again, but this time the offers were in the $80 - $100 range. Yes, you read that correctly, eighty to a hundred dollars a year.

Should have stuck with high school and made at least 1,000 times the salary.

As mentioned above career mode some years ago was better, but it was pretty tough. Did users want it to be easier? The solution should have been to not play career mode, not water it down until it's disjointed and meaningless.
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Old 07-24-2019, 09:11 AM   #5
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Ya gotta have house rules. Mine is that whether it's the beginning of a save or not, I can't accept a job offer from a club that doesn't have vacancies for both manager and general manager. It doesn't keep me out of the major league (I play fictional) but it generally keeps me away from major markets and well-stocked organizations.
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Old 07-24-2019, 02:54 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by NotMuchTime View Post
I quit playing the game in 'career mode' because of this very issue.


That's like saying I quit driving my Porsche because I didn't like the cup holders. The main purpose of career mode is built around the franchise and the development of players not who offers you what job and for how much.

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Old 07-24-2019, 05:43 PM   #7
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I think there are a few challenges here.
  1. Likely 95% of users want to manage a Major League team from Day 1. They would be conversely frustrated if they wanted to play career mode but had to manage through 15 minor league seasons before they could get an opportunity in the bigs.
  2. Of the 5% who remain, likely some percentage want to start managing in the minors, but are happy to pick their team from the start, not wait for an offer.
  3. At the end of the day, this is just a super-niche feature, and as such it really hasn't gotten the attention it would deserve if Markus' intent was to make this a major one. He has provided the ability to do this, but the team just hasn't focused on fleshing this out.
As to your second point, the game was NEVER intended to reflect true high school (or college) baseball. High school and college leagues are only in the game to provide the ability to seed professional leagues with players with accumulated stats. Don't expect the game to handle those leagues akin to real life.

I say these things as someone who plays as a minor league coach working his way up, so I get your frustration. I just don't think this is a mode that has gotten much attention, and if I can be honest, I highly doubt it's going to change substantially from version to version. It's just too "niche."
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Old 07-25-2019, 01:32 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by battists View Post
I think there are a few challenges here.
[LIST=1][*]Likely 95% of users want to manage a Major League team from Day 1.
Agree. I'm one of those guys who starts Football Manager save games at semi-pro clubs in off-brand countries. But the difference is that you can still choose the players you acquire, which is what "management" means to me. In baseball if you're not a major-league GM you're just playing the guys somebody gave you. So I like to start an OOTP save with a bad major-league team and work my way up from there.
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Old 07-25-2019, 02:05 PM   #9
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Agree. I'm one of those guys who starts Football Manager save games at semi-pro clubs in off-brand countries. But the difference is that you can still choose the players you acquire, which is what "management" means to me. In baseball if you're not a major-league GM you're just playing the guys somebody gave you. So I like to start an OOTP save with a bad major-league team and work my way up from there.
Yeah, and I'm just bearing with my GM's poor decisions and explaining them through exposition in the dynasty I write. The only time I jump in is when he does something ridiculous like leave me short by three players. Then I have a commissioner account that I use to sign a few more players.
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Old 07-25-2019, 05:07 PM   #10
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Battists: you are a contributor of high status and long standing and I certainly appreciate you providing this perspective. I do respect your views, but allow me to disagree at least in a few respects.

* Likely 95% of users want to manage a Major League team from Day 1. They would be conversely frustrated if they wanted to play career mode but had to manage through 15 minor league seasons before they could get an opportunity in the bigs.

Correct. But all they need to do is *not* select the 'start unemployed' option and simply pick a team.

* Of the 5% who remain, likely some percentage want to start managing in the minors, but are happy to pick their team from the start, not wait for an offer.

Same response as above; this is not relevant to the 'start unemployed' feature. Just pick a team and go.

* At the end of the day, this is just a super-niche feature, and as such it really hasn't gotten the attention it would deserve if Markus' intent was to make this a major one. He has provided the ability to do this, but the team just hasn't focused on fleshing this out.

Fair enough. I do believe substantial improvement is possible, but I too won't go so far as to say it's anything like a critical issue. As one other poster mentioned, 'house rules' can be made to apply here. Not an optimal solution, but a working one, and it's what I too do in practice.

* As to your second point, the game was NEVER intended to reflect true high school (or college) baseball. High school and college leagues are only in the game to provide the ability to seed professional leagues with players with accumulated stats. Don't expect the game to handle those leagues akin to real life.

Again, fair enough. However when creating a fictional league, there is the option to set it at the high school or college level, which implies at least something of a real-life analog.

As I've mentioned before, some number of years back 'start unemployed' worked vastly differently. I remember playing one game in which I didn't even get an offer until mid-season. Perhaps players found that *too* tough. But it was completely opened up a release or two later.

I don't mean to be overly critical. There is nothing anywhere that compares with OOTP and it gets better with every release. If 'career mode' is not a priority I'll live with my house rules. Not ideal, but quite workable.

Last edited by chipschap1; 07-25-2019 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 07-25-2019, 06:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipschap1 View Post
Battists: you are a contributor of high status and long standing and I certainly appreciate you providing this perspective. I do respect your views, but allow me to disagree at least in a few respects.

* Likely 95% of users want to manage a Major League team from Day 1. They would be conversely frustrated if they wanted to play career mode but had to manage through 15 minor league seasons before they could get an opportunity in the bigs.

Correct. But all they need to do is *not* select the 'start unemployed' option and simply pick a team.

* Of the 5% who remain, likely some percentage want to start managing in the minors, but are happy to pick their team from the start, not wait for an offer.

Same response as above; this is not relevant to the 'start unemployed' feature. Just pick a team and go.

* At the end of the day, this is just a super-niche feature, and as such it really hasn't gotten the attention it would deserve if Markus' intent was to make this a major one. He has provided the ability to do this, but the team just hasn't focused on fleshing this out.

Fair enough. I do believe substantial improvement is possible, but I too won't go so far as to say it's anything like a critical issue. As one other poster mentioned, 'house rules' can be made to apply here. Not an optimal solution, but a working one, and it's what I too do in practice.

* As to your second point, the game was NEVER intended to reflect true high school (or college) baseball. High school and college leagues are only in the game to provide the ability to seed professional leagues with players with accumulated stats. Don't expect the game to handle those leagues akin to real life.

Again, fair enough. However when creating a fictional league, there is the option to set it at the high school or college level, which implies at least something of a real-life analog.

As I've mentioned before, some number of years back 'start unemployed' worked vastly differently. I remember playing one game in which I didn't even get an offer until mid-season. Perhaps players found that *too* tough. But it was completely opened up a release or two later.

I don't mean to be overly critical. There is nothing anywhere that compares with OOTP and it gets better with every release. If 'career mode' is not a priority I'll live with my house rules. Not ideal, but quite workable.
The reasons stated by battists are correct, and that's why it is the way it is - because a lot of people wanted it that way.

It's fine to say don't select the "start unemployed" option and pick a team, but that doesn't work. You don't get hired when you "just pick a team". You don't get a news article, it doesn't get recorded in history as a hiring. You just start as manager of said team.

You're right, it used to be harder, then the masses complained, so Markus changed it.

I guess there's no happy medium in this one.
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Old 07-25-2019, 07:09 PM   #12
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I don't mean to be overly critical. There is nothing anywhere that compares with OOTP and it gets better with every release. If 'career mode' is not a priority I'll live with my house rules. Not ideal, but quite workable.
Not overly critical at all. And trust me, I would LOVE for this play-mode to get some TLC. Not everyone knows this, but I actually worked for OOTP for several years. I've met Markus and Andreas and worked closely and I think I kind of 'get' how he is as a developer. He has a tendency to implement features he thinks are cool, but he doesn't always spend a ton of time thinking through all of the permutations. At least, not until we pester him about them.
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