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Old 08-23-2013, 06:37 AM   #1
Andreas Raht
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Turn Storylines off???

As you probably have seen, "The Wolf" demands in his signature that you should turn the storyline system off. I would like to discuss that in an extra thread.

OOTP Baseball is not a "replay" simulation. It's a GAME which tries to simulate the baseball world and "real life". In real life things randomly happen even to professional baseball players which do not follow baseball rules. Off-field injuries, accidents, family tragedy, "freak incidents", whatever. We want to bring this real life stuff into the game with the storyline system.

Like most other features, storylines are optional in OOTP. The user can simply switch them off if he doesn't want to see them.
It is absolutely valid to like the storyline system or to hate the storyline system.

It is NOT okay IMHO to tell everybody that they have to switch it off. And it's not okay to hijack each storyline related thread with "turn it off! turn it off!" posts. If people use the SL system and think something needs to be changed or improved, they have the right to discuss it. Those who hate the SL system just disable it and stay away from discussions about it.

Just my .02

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Old 08-23-2013, 06:51 AM   #2
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Best post ever.

I hadn't seen his signature because he's the only person on these forums who I've blocked.
Unfortunately people sometimes quote him and his nonsense becomes visible but I don't have to see all his idiotic outpourings anymore.

For me, storylines are a great feature and something I'm sure will continue to develop over time. I don't for a second believe they are all completely brilliant but for me the good outweigh the bad and they add depth to the world constructed by the game and my imagination.

The fact that they are 'optional' is also perfect for those that don't like. Some people just like to make a fuss about things unnecessarily though.
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Old 08-23-2013, 07:50 AM   #3
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I don't know ... I believed we need a balance with mates, like Wolf, to keep the whole forum, interesting ... Some mates may find his issues as being similar to their own experiences or others, like myself, may not ... for me, I do find the storyline system very entertaining and a necessary addition to OOTP ... however, deeper the League, with more options being enabled, the more I can get lost or overwhelmed by the immersion factor ... I, usually, will select this off if playing with more than 14-16 teams ... the simpler the League, the more fun I have, including storyline system as ON ... This make the Cake more delicious!! ...
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:38 AM   #4
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I see the storyline as an offer but i turn they off because they do not suit with the "background" of my league. It is a huge advantage of this feature that they are editable. Maybe i use them later after a little editing.
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:43 AM   #5
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Personally, I like the storyline option. It brings a sense of reality to the game IMO.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:00 AM   #6
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I also like the concept of the storylines and I have them turned on in my current historical alternate universe league for now. There are a couple of concerns I have about them and I wonder if there's anything in place to prevent this:

1) Is there anything restricting certain storylines to certain time periods? For example, no dropping big screen TVs or missing team flights in the 1800s...

2) Is there anything marking certain unique storylines as "used" in a particular league so they don't pop up again a few years from now? For example, I just saw the "hurt back cutting wood" storyline that developed into something completely different (don't want to spoil it). Is there a chance that will happen to a different player ten years from now, in which case I'll already know the punchline? Having something unique like that happen more than once would sort of detract from the immersion.

If those two features are already part of storylines, bravo! If not, I think their addition in a future version would help quell some of the dislike for storylines in general. The only other thing that I know gets people angry is when a storyline randomly forces their stud prospect to retire and join the army... but that's just the roll of the dice, right?
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:04 AM   #7
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I have the storyline function turned off, it just isn't for me. But the game is to play it your way. I don't think the Wolf always realizes that. As someone said in the other thread about children dying, every time he complains, it makes me cringe. The great part about OOTP (and most all sports video games) is that there is no ending - you can customize it your way, and play it your way, and the results differ for everyone.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hefalumps View Post
I also like the concept of the storylines and I have them turned on in my current historical alternate universe league for now. There are a couple of concerns I have about them and I wonder if there's anything in place to prevent this:

1) Is there anything restricting certain storylines to certain time periods? For example, no dropping big screen TVs or missing team flights in the 1800s...

2) Is there anything marking certain unique storylines as "used" in a particular league so they don't pop up again a few years from now? For example, I just saw the "hurt back cutting wood" storyline that developed into something completely different (don't want to spoil it). Is there a chance that will happen to a different player ten years from now, in which case I'll already know the punchline? Having something unique like that happen more than once would sort of detract from the immersion.
Thank you! Yes, those two features already exist. Storylines or single articles can have conditions. The conditions you ask for are
Code:
storyline_happens_only_once="1"
Code:
league_year_min="1970"
Quote:
If those two features are already part of storylines, bravo! If not, I think their addition in a future version would help quell some of the dislike for storylines in general. The only other thing that I know gets people angry is when a storyline randomly forces their stud prospect to retire and join the army... but that's just the roll of the dice, right?
Yes, that can make a player angry and/or sad. I understand that - but so is life...

The "Chopping Wood" storyline is just great... "Player misses a few games after injuring his back while helping a friend chop firewood. It was rumored after the fact that a mistress played a role in the injury and the firewood a cover-up."
For this storyline, this condition was set:
Code:
MIN_USAGE_INTERVAL_DAYS=3000
So it might happen again after 3000 or more days.
There are 6 different outcomes to this story! The storyline can run up to 200 days. So if you see it next time, don't be so sure that you know how the story ends
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:44 AM   #9
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Andreas:

I have had nothing but bad experiences with storylines. They have not added to my immersion, they have been repetitive, they have been anachronistic, and they have hurt my teams (early on my team took a massive storyline-based hit to fan interest that was just totally unreasonable). They have added nothing at all positive to my game while actually impacting it in very negative ways. I do not in any way think that storylines are ready for prime time; right now I consider them an early beta. As I have said elsewhere, I think that they will likely become usable sometime around OOTP 18, when they are no longer anachronistic, repetitive, severe, or punitive. When that happens I will use them.

In the meantime I will take that line out of my signature. But until such time as storylines meet the criteria I outlined, I will not use them or support them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 08-23-2013, 09:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.

Last edited by The Wolf; 08-23-2013 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:47 AM   #11
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nevermind

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Old 08-23-2013, 09:57 AM   #12
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Andreas, your last post is pretty interesting. I've had storylines turned off since OOTP 13 because I saw the chopping wood storyline twice in the span of a couple years in my MLB Quickstart. Is the coding to set events to not happen for a certain span of time new to 14? And for an MLB Quickstart (or any world with multiple professional levels), does that coding affect all professional levels, or is it unique to each level (MLB, AAA, AA). I'd be disappointed to see a storyline like that happen in MLB, then a month later happen in Class A.

Thanks.
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:58 AM   #13
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Thanks Andreas, I will be happy to comply. I am guilty of echoing this sentiment repeatedly. I will turn storylines off permanently and never mention them again here.

However, it irks me no end that there is one user in particular who craps all over every aspect of the game at every opportunity and who never gets called out. I used to think this other poster was a rival game developer who was just here to cut down his competition. Now I just think he is a trouble-making idiot. He doesn't just bang on one thing though, he bangs on everything, so I guess that's cool.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:04 AM   #14
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One more thing: I play sports management games as a test of skill. Now there are already massive forces of randomness in operation in OOTP: regular injuries, CEI's, random slumps, players refusing to sign with your team, etc., etc. Adding ANOTHER random factor with massively negative potential to the game (losing your best player or your #1 draft pick, for example) makes the game that much less of a test of skill.

I don't want that. There's enough randomness in OOTP as it is, without storylines.

Storylines were originally sold as news-like items which would be a way of increasing immersion. (I really don't need that - I play stats-only, which is plenty immersive enough.) Storylines were not sold as a way of increasing the randomness/chaos level of the game, nor as a way of adding punitive events, but that's what they have become. And I don't care for that, so, given that and all the other numerous flaws that storylines have, I turn them off.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.

Last edited by The Wolf; 08-23-2013 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG17EASY View Post
I've had storylines turned off since OOTP 13
Shhh! You'll get marked down as a troublemaker like me for saying things like that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Shhh! You'll get marked down as a troublemaker like me for saying things like that.
That is not true and it's offending me, Wolf. I'll never understand constructive criticism as "troublemaking". But I understand what you're doing here as trolling. I'm ready to give you some infraction points
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:19 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
One more thing: I play sports management games as a test of skill. Now there are already massive forces of randomness in operation in OOTP: regular injuries, CEI's, random slumps, players refusing to sign with your team, etc., etc. Adding ANOTHER random factor with massively negative potential to the game (losing your best player or your #1 draft pick, for example) makes the game that much less of a test of skill.

I don't want that. There's enough randomness in OOTP as it is, without storylines.

Storylines were originally sold as news-like items which would be a way of increasing immersion. (I really don't need that - I play stats-only, which is plenty immersive enough.) Storylines were not sold as a way of increasing the randomness/chaos level of the game, nor as a way of adding punitive events, but that's what they have become. And I don't care for that, so, given that and all the other numerous flaws that storylines have, I turn them off.
Yes, I understand that and it's absolutely up to you and okay for you to disable it. But please let others, who do not play OOTP as a test of skills, use it.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:20 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
One more thing: I play sports management games as a test of skill. Now there are already massive forces of randomness in operation in OOTP: regular injuries, CEI's, random slumps, players refusing to sign with your team, etc., etc. Adding ANOTHER random factor with massively negative potential to the game (losing your best player or your #1 draft pick, for example) makes the game that much less of a test of skill.

I don't want that. There's enough randomness in OOTP as it is, without storylines.

Storylines were originally sold as news-like items which would be a way of increasing immersion. (I really don't need that - I play stats-only, which is plenty immersive enough.) Storylines were not sold as a way of increasing the randomness/chaos level of the game, nor as a way of adding punitive events, but that's what they have become. And I don't care for that, so, given that and all the other numerous flaws that storylines have, I turn them off.
I'm sure Jim Leyland was screaming "turn storylines off" the morning after the White Sox took Miggy out and got him fall down drunk.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:23 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by BIG17EASY View Post
Andreas, your last post is pretty interesting. I've had storylines turned off since OOTP 13 because I saw the chopping wood storyline twice in the span of a couple years in my MLB Quickstart. Is the coding to set events to not happen for a certain span of time new to 14? And for an MLB Quickstart (or any world with multiple professional levels), does that coding affect all professional levels, or is it unique to each level (MLB, AAA, AA). I'd be disappointed to see a storyline like that happen in MLB, then a month later happen in Class A.

Thanks.
That coding is not new, but the amount of days in that condition of that storyline might have been edited.

The conditions of a storyline do effect the whole saved game, not just a certain league. If the chopping wood SL happens in your game, it will not happen again in any league of that game for min 3000 game days.
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:28 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Andreas Raht View Post
That coding is not new, but the amount of days in that condition of that storyline might have been edited.

The conditions of a storyline do effect the whole saved game, not just a certain league. If the chopping wood SL happens in your game, it will not happen again in any league of that game for min 3000 game days.
Thanks for the clarification. I think I'm going to turn SLs on in my fictional league and see how I like them. I don't think I'll ever use them in an MLB Quickstart (or at least until that turns into a fully fictional league by 2030 or so) because it's just not believable to see David Wright retire suddenly to pursue another sport or the military.
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