Park Effects ARE Broken - Page 2

mrbill · 03-30-2006, 12:17 AM

Yeah, DIPS engine, never even tried using the old engine in OOTP 6.

andymac · 03-30-2006, 02:10 AM

OK, I ran a set of sims using the parameters Eck laid out earlier. These were run using a 40 team league (just the 1 sub-league) in replay mode. Financials, injuries and trades were all turned off. All park factors were changed to the setting listed in the listed column

Dips engine:

Code:

P.F.		AVG	HR	R	AB	H	2B	3B	BB	K	OBP	SLG	OPS	SB

50		0.275	3,902	30,071	227,379	62,463	6,887	759	23,547	39,171	0.345	0.363	0.708	5,696
75		0.272	5,362	32,279	226,995	61,766	9,157	1,362	23,600	39,679	0.343	0.395	0.738	5,270
100		0.274	6,864	34,881	227,264	62,234	12,259	1,418	23,598	39,063	0.344	0.431	0.775	4,912
125		0.272	8,448	36,817	227,434	61,824	15,154	1,589	23,581	39,205	0.342	0.464	0.806	4,568
150		0.273	9,970	39,712	228,098	62,266	18,084	2,412	23,943	39,495	0.344	0.505	0.849	4,282

Traditional (old) Engine:

Code:

P.F.		AVG	HR	R	AB	H	2B	3B	BB	K	OBP	SLG	OPS	SB

50		0.155	3,195	14,418	208,568	32,400	6,413	714	21,111	32,481	0.237	0.239	0.476	4,029
75		0.207	4,500	21,936	214,642	44,423	8,803	1,276	21,847	33,320	0.283	0.323	0.606	4,383
100		0.269	6,102	33,142	226,809	61,103	11,958	1,470	22,869	35,117	0.339	0.416	0.754	4,886
125		0.343	8,581	52,328	246,614	84,585	16,724	1,762	26,251	37,885	0.407	0.529	0.936	5,488
150		0.423	11,909	82,528	275,199	116,393	22,257	3,134	32,868	40,136	0.483	0.656	1.140	5,753

So, it definitely appears that the new DIPS engine is virtually ignoring the Average park factors. The others seem to be working however.

disposableheros · 03-30-2006, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbill

The text box where you set park effect ratings specifically says 1-200 is the acceptable range, so I made sure to stay within specified boundaries.

I wouldnt try and go above 200, but that should work.

i know it allows up to 200 to be input. i just thought maybe it didnt actually recognize amounts over X (still a bug).

guess its a moot point anyway

disposableheros · 03-30-2006, 03:13 AM

who'da thunk PF would have such an effect on SB. an inverse relation in the DIPS engine too

disposableheros · 03-30-2006, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmo

I assume everyone is using the new DIPS engine for their tests. Is that correct?

I would be interested in seeing what happens if these experiments were repeated using the old engine since one hypothesis could be that AVG is not being influenced because in the new engine the path to the result is running through BABIP which may not being get influenced by the park RAvg & LAvg settings.

this looks to be exactly the case.

andymac · 03-30-2006, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

who'da thunk PF would have such an effect on SB. an inverse relation in the DIPS engine too

I think it has to do with their being more extra base hits (and thus less runners on 1st base) as far as the dips engine is concerned. The old engine increased the total number of hits right along with the extra base hits, so it would make sense that stolen bases would go up.

mrbill · 03-30-2006, 04:47 AM

I think that's a very well done piece of research

I'm glad we nailed this bug down within a day of it being first reported, its too bad it took two years for someone to notice!

andymac · 03-30-2006, 09:08 AM

bump...hopefully we can get a comment on this today.

draven085 · 03-30-2006, 09:28 AM

Nice work, Andy. At least we have confirmation that park factors aren't totally FUBAR. This is still a fairly significant gaffe though. Hopefully someone on the beta team for OOTP2006 is aware of this issue and can replicate your study.

Steve Kuffrey · 03-30-2006, 09:39 AM

I'll link the beta forum to this for sure, thanks.

mad0die · 03-30-2006, 10:20 AM

Well done!

disposableheros · 03-30-2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

I think it has to do with their being more extra base hits (and thus less runners on 1st base) as far as the dips engine is concerned. The old engine increased the total number of hits right along with the extra base hits, so it would make sense that stolen bases would go up.

oh, duh!

ihatenames · 03-30-2006, 03:54 PM

At least its only the AVGs that are SNAFUed, it could have been a lot worse. Hopefully the beta crew and markus can get this resolved.

disposableheros · 03-30-2006, 03:57 PM

andy, what do the BABIPs look like for the DIPS engine?

andymac · 03-30-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

andy, what do the BABIPs look like for the DIPS engine?

The numbers for the test run or the setting inside the game?

disposableheros · 03-30-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

The numbers for the test run or the setting inside the game?

the test

andymac · 03-30-2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disposableheros

the test

50: .332
75: .330
100: .331
125: .328
150: .330

BABIP didn't move.

disposableheros · 03-30-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andymac

50: .332
75: .330
100: .331
125: .328
150: .330

BABIP didn't move.

hmmm, it really is broken!

Eckstein 4 Prez · 03-30-2006, 08:20 PM

Thanks for doing all this work, Andy. Although it's pretty disappointing to see this problem, at least we've got it isolated and we know it's not quite as bad as it originally looked.

disposableheros · 03-30-2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eckstein 4 Prez

Thanks for doing all this work, Andy....

"

03-30-2006, 12:17 AM	#21
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	Yeah, DIPS engine, never even tried using the old engine in OOTP 6. __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

03-30-2006, 03:13 AM	#24
disposableheros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,332	who'da thunk PF would have such an effect on SB. an inverse relation in the DIPS engine too __________________ 2 Wild Cards, 11 Division Champs, 4 League Champs, 3 World Champs, and 3 Best GM awards Baseball Maelstrom - New York Mets - 180-149 .547 Corporate League Baseball - Coke Buzz - 889-649 .578 Western Hemisphere Baseball League - Santiago Saints - 672-793 .459 Record - 2428-2271 .517

03-30-2006, 04:47 AM	#27
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 982	I think that's a very well done piece of research I'm glad we nailed this bug down within a day of it being first reported, its too bad it took two years for someone to notice! __________________ UBL - Best Online League Evar! - Los Angeles Dodgers: 25 seasons, 13 NL West titles, 4 WC, 8 NL Titles, 5-time Champs LBB v5 league (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL v6 league (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

03-30-2006, 09:08 AM	#28
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,725	bump...hopefully we can get a comment on this today. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

03-30-2006, 09:39 AM	#30
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,022	I'll link the beta forum to this for sure, thanks. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-30-2006, 09:28 AM	#29
draven085 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: New Jersey Posts: 2,071	Nice work, Andy. At least we have confirmation that park factors aren't totally FUBAR. This is still a fairly significant gaffe though. Hopefully someone on the beta team for OOTP2006 is aware of this issue and can replicate your study.

03-30-2006, 10:20 AM	#31
mad0die All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: TX Posts: 912	Well done! __________________ Commish GUBA

03-30-2006, 03:54 PM	#33
ihatenames Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rockford Posts: 2,535	At least its only the AVGs that are SNAFUed, it could have been a lot worse. Hopefully the beta crew and markus can get this resolved. __________________ New Album coming soon!

03-30-2006, 03:57 PM	#34
disposableheros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,332	andy, what do the BABIPs look like for the DIPS engine? __________________ 2 Wild Cards, 11 Division Champs, 4 League Champs, 3 World Champs, and 3 Best GM awards Baseball Maelstrom - New York Mets - 180-149 .547 Corporate League Baseball - Coke Buzz - 889-649 .578 Western Hemisphere Baseball League - Santiago Saints - 672-793 .459 Record - 2428-2271 .517

03-30-2006, 08:20 PM	#39
Eckstein 4 Prez Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The OC Posts: 6,347	Thanks for doing all this work, Andy. Although it's pretty disappointing to see this problem, at least we've got it isolated and we know it's not quite as bad as it originally looked. __________________ Looking for an insomnia cure? Check out my dynasty thread, The Dawn of American Professional Base Ball, 1871.