New custom league frozen

[gmo]

I hope you don't mind me continuing on about this when I'm really mostly just interested from my own perspective about how the league totals work and not so much about your problem. Can you describe precisely what you did? Here's what I'm thinking you did, and please correct anything I get wrong...

Create custom league. After setting up the cities like you wanted and picking fictional players, no players, or whatever, you set the year start on to 1901. Then you hit Generate League. Maybe you did other stuff next, but eventually you got to the engine setup where you can edit the league totals. What you saw were the regular default numbers, the left-hand numbers below:

    Default   Recalc
AB - 166737   166737
H  -  44057    41251
2B -   8827    12178
3B -    934      649
HR -   5207    27368
BB -  15889    17403
HBP -  1894     1618
SO -  30801    68742
BABIP- .297     .297 (.197)

Your era said Deadball (1900-1920). You changed nothing in the totals manually, just using "recalculate for historical accuracy". What happened when you did that - what new totals did you get? What I got when doing that is the set of numbers on the right above, with .197 being the new BABIP I got when I hit the Calculate button.

When I was testing I did something similar creating a custom league then trying to adjust the league totals to something like deadball era numbers. My logic was that whatever percentage change you wanted, you'd alter the totals number by the inverse of that percentage. For example something along the lines of... if I wanted 1/4th the number of HR, make the totals number 4 times what it was. In the totals changes above the HR number went up by a factor of 5 and the K number by a factor of 2, so I'd figure the HR results would be about 1/5th modern day numbers, and there would be about one-half the strikeouts.

In reference to my comment in the other thread you said you did not understand about making big adjustments, let me elaborate to try to clarify. The adjustments from the default modern day league totals (that are apparently hard-wired into a custom league when it is generated regardless of the starting year) to deadball type numbers can be too extreme to work. I had a case where in trying to lower strikeouts by increasing the K league total number, I had too more just hits & K than AB, and the league crashed or locked up when I tried to sim it. Take the adjusted numbers above - the 2B+3B+HR is only ~1000 less than the hits total apparently leaving little room for singles.

[phenom]

yes, that's what I did, but when I hit the Calculate button, my league froze when attempting to sim. If I didn't hit the Calculate button, or change the BABIP from .297, it ran fine, with the exception of the .550 thru June averages that several players had.

The numbers above - are those defaults after hitting "recalculate for historical accuracy" or are they modified from that, after the fact?

I understand what you're saying about H+K being more than AB and the problems that could result from that, but am I to assume the game itself doesn't have it's own checksum for that? No offense to Markus, but shouldn't that be an elementary element of the League Totals system?

At the same token, are we exposing a flaw in the League Totals section for historical leagues? If the default action leaves nothing much for singles, does the "recalculate for historical accuracy" become a highly inaccurate form of adjustment, more so than simply leaving it alone altogether?

What happened from 6.02 to 6.03? I think I might reinstall, start at 6.00, see what happens, and apply patches until it breaks again and go from there.

[gmo]

Originally Posted by phenom

yes, that's what I did, but when I hit the Calculate button, my league froze when attempting to sim. If I didn't hit the Calculate button, or change the BABIP from .297, it ran fine, with the exception of the .550 thru June averages that several players had.

The numbers above - are those defaults after hitting "recalculate for historical accuracy" or are they modified from that, after the fact?

The 2nd set of numbers is strictly from hitting the "Recalc for Hist Acc" button. The only things I tried was hitting Calc for BABIP, and that changed the number from .297 to .197. I'm trying to figure out why you'd be getting the .500-type averages, but my brain isn't working really well with the league totals right now. The game looks for either BB/K/HR, then if not the ball is in play and maybe it's a hit. What are your other sim results when it did run at .297 BABIP - were power numbers off or was everything pretty good except for Avg?

I understand what you're saying about H+K being more than AB and the problems that could result from that, but am I to assume the game itself doesn't have it's own checksum for that? No offense to Markus, but shouldn't that be an elementary element of the League Totals system?

Well, in my experience there is no check in the game. I agree that would be a good idea to basically not allow you to have "impossible" totals.

At the same token, are we exposing a flaw in the League Totals section for historical leagues? If the default action leaves nothing much for singles, does the "recalculate for historical accuracy" become a highly inaccurate form of adjustment, more so than simply leaving it alone altogether?

What happened from 6.02 to 6.03? I think I might reinstall, start at 6.00, see what happens, and apply patches until it breaks again and go from there.

I don't think it is an issue with any of the patches, but I could be wrong. Maybe that was one of the primary functions all along, however I'd never thought of using the "recalculate for historical accuracy" at the very beginning of a custom league set in another time. Makes a lot of sense though. I think the problem is just that the system is not good for making gigantic adjustments. Tweaking 10, 20, even 50% is probably fine, but when you have to make huge modern-to-deadball changes to the numbers, those numbers generally don't have the flexibility to allow for that because you run into stuff like Hits+K>AB.

[phenom]

...while I'm thinking about this, and making chicken fajitas at the same time...

My guess is that my .550 averages might have something to do with BABIP not changing. Henry suggested upping the Hits totals in the League Totals, and for the life of me I haven't found time to try it since, so he may be right... I'll try to get to that tonight.

As for other stats, they all seem good; guys with 4,5 HR in late June at most, but ERAs are high, as likely expected with the BA's I'm getting. I'm not sure about other things, since I was so shocked at the BA's.

If the Hits suggestion doesn't work, I'll go back to 6.00 and start from there. Who knows? Maybe I might be on to something? We'll see.

[phenom]

okay, I increased the Hits from the 41251 above to 53000 and left everything else the same after recalculating without hitting calculate for BABIP.

League leaders hit .299 and .310, with HR leaders at 11 and 9. Couldn't score runs though, as the league leaders in runs and were 72 and 63 and RBI was 65 and 65.

Overall, teams hit about .225 across the board, with a low of .210 and a high of .242

I'm gonna try resetting hits to half what I did, around 47000 or 48000 and see what happens. Probly raise HR a little bit too.

Makes me wonder though, what is BABIP good for?

[gmo]

Originally Posted by phenom

okay, I increased the Hits from the 41251 above to 53000 and left everything else the same after recalculating without hitting calculate for BABIP.

League leaders hit .299 and .310, with HR leaders at 11 and 9. Couldn't score runs though, as the league leaders in runs and were 72 and 63 and RBI was 65 and 65.

Overall, teams hit about .225 across the board, with a low of .210 and a high of .242

I'm gonna try resetting hits to half what I did, around 47000 or 48000 and see what happens. Probly raise HR a little bit too.

Makes me wonder though, what is BABIP good for?

41k hits with 27k HR in the totals leaves 14k ball-in-play hits. Bumping up to 55k hits makes 28k ball-in-play hits, about a doubling, and your batting average numbers fell to about half what they were?

That could make sense to me, except like you say for the BABIP factor. I thought the AB, K, BB, HR numbers were used to see if the ball was not in play, then if it was in play the BABIP number was used to see if there was a non-HR hit. I feel like I used to know how this stuff worked but that now I have no clue .

[phenom]

Originally Posted by gmo

41k hits with 27k HR in the totals leaves 14k ball-in-play hits. Bumping up to 55k hits makes 28k ball-in-play hits, about a doubling, and your batting average numbers fell to about half what they were?

considering the inverse proportionality of the numbers and resultant stats, isn't this what you'd expect? Double the BIP hits, and averages fall.

[phenom]

at 48000 in hits and 31000 in HR, we're getting closer. BA is about 30 points or so too high, HRs are just about right on, but runs scored are about 1-1.5 runs too low per game per team.

...still adjusting.

[gmo]

Originally Posted by phenom

considering the inverse proportionality of the numbers and resultant stats, isn't this what you'd expect? Double the BIP hits, and averages fall.

Yeah, I would figure pretty much exactly that, except I had thought it worked differently. I thought the BABIP number essentially determined the batting average after the K & HR calculations were already done and those factors were passed. I thought all that mattered was the ratios of 1B:2B:3B to each other in determining whether a BIP hit was a 1B, 2B, or 3B. I didn't think the BIP hits total number itself would actually be the thing determining Avg after the HR & K. That's part of why I feel like I'm getting dumber about this.

[phenom]

well, now I just gotta figure out how to lower averages, yet squeeze out a 2-3 more runs a game total.

...but that's for another day. I'm tired.

Thanks, Steve, for the suggestion. I think I'm headed in the right direction.

[gmo]

If Avg and power are good, that doesn't leave much room for tweaking. Gap power and walks?

[phenom]

I don't want to modify player ratings, I just want to mess with the League Totals. I started by lowering the 2B numbers, to see if I get more 2B and more runs, but it was too late to mess with it. I still want to try the different patches to see if the Calculate button works, since I know it did in OOTP5.

[phenom]

I reinstalled 6.00 without patches and had the same problem.

Therefore, I'm in the process of modifying League Totals, simming a season, modifying again, simming again, until I get it right.

[phenom]

bump for an update.

I finally got some league totals that gave me stats I was happy with, so I simmed 1901-1920.

Now I'm in 1921 and am trying to re-adjust again, without much luck.

However, the 'calculate' button now works without freezing the league.