2019 NBA off season thread

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Michael Porter Jr. will not participate in summer league. That is too bad, I was hoping to see how healthy he is.

I think your question was answered.

[Leo_The_Lip]

Perfect reply from Celtics fan to Irving leaving:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9Ku64E3A18

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I think your question was answered.

Reports were that his back is okay. That should keep Nuggets fans happy. It is a minor knee tweak and they decided to to risk anything more. He will be at training camp and pre season.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Reports were that his back is okay. That should keep Nuggets fans happy. It is a minor knee tweak and they decided to to risk anything more. He will be at training camp and pre season.

Reports say "OK". But all I hear is "Greg Oden".

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Reports say "OK". But all I hear is "Greg Oden".

He was taken by a good team at the end of the lottery as a chance pick.
Oden was taken #1 overall over Durant.

I understand where your coming from but even if he never plays a game its not a massive loss for the Nuggets.

[rudel.dietrich]

Consider me surprised. Leonard chooses the Clippers.

[thehef]

Liking this. So. Much.

[rudel.dietrich]

And the Clippers get Paul George via trade.
OKC looks to be in rebuild mode. I would be surprised to see Adams begin the season with them and Westbrook to be with them past the trade deadline.

[darkhorse]

Jerry West does it again and again and again and again.

[Cobra Mgr]

Glad Klaw didn't go to the Lakers. It will make the NBA more interesting.

I will say I hate PG13 requesting a trade after just one year under contract. I give OKC credit for getting so many picks. But if I was an owner, I wouldn't be giving in to these trade demands & sign & trade deals. I make a commitment to you, I expect the same from you. I'm not going to pay you to divorce me.

[Leo_The_Lip]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

. I'm not going to pay you to divorce me.

Is that not how divorce works?

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Glad Klaw didn't go to the Lakers. It will make the NBA more interesting.

I will say I hate PG13 requesting a trade after just one year under contract. I give OKC credit for getting so many picks. But if I was an owner, I wouldn't be giving in to these trade demands & sign & trade deals. I make a commitment to you, I expect the same from you. I'm not going to pay you to divorce me.

OKC took in a massive haul. The Pelicans paid 150 cents on the dollar for Davis. The Clippers paid 200 cents.

FOUR unprotected first round picks????
Two pick swaps
One other first round pick
And a good young player

Gallinari is another trade asset and as I said before, OKC will move Adams and Westbrook and collect even more.
They will be crap for a few year but are set up for their next run quite well.

[rudel.dietrich]

Demarcus Cousins signs with the Lakers on one year deal.
I like this for the Lakers. Low risk and Cousins when healthy is a great offensive talent. But he is rarely health.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

OKC took in a massive haul. The Pelicans paid 150 cents on the dollar for Davis. The Clippers paid 200 cents.

FOUR unprotected first round picks????
Two pick swaps
One other first round pick
And a good young player

Gallinari is another trade asset and as I said before, OKC will move Adams and Westbrook and collect even more.
They will be crap for a few year but are set up for their next run quite well.

Clips were paying for George officially. But they were actually paying for George & Kahwi. No George, no Leonard, Kahwi w/LBJ & AD. I think it was well worth the price.

But like you said, OKC can set themselves up for the future. I expect the Clippers to own one of the 5 best reg season records, so the picks themselves will be late in the 1st rd. But they can be packaged together to help them move up.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Clips were paying for George officially. But they were actually paying for George & Kahwi. No George, no Leonard, Kahwi w/LBJ & AD. I think it was well worth the price.

But like you said, OKC can set themselves up for the future. I expect the Clippers to own one of the 5 best reg season records, so the picks themselves will be late in the 1st rd. But they can be packaged together to help them move up.

The picks are way way in the future and are unprotected.
The NBA will be very different in 2022,2024 and 2026

Look at Brooklyn to see how unprotecting picks and pick swaps can be super lopsided down the road.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Jerry West does it again and again and again and again.

What is it you are saying that West did (and has done again and again...)?

Count me as one who thinks that despite being a very good basketball mind (was a good GM and for last few years a good consultant), he is also insanely overrated. Gets way too much credit for the Lakers' 80's run. The bulk of the front office credit for the 80's Lakers should go to Bill Sharman. West did a nice job of maintaining it.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by thehef

What is it you are saying that West did (and has done again and again...)?

Count me as one who thinks that despite being a very good basketball mind (was a good GM and for last few years a good consultant), he is also insanely overrated. Gets way too much credit for the Lakers' 80's run. The bulk of the front office credit for the 80's Lakers should go to Bill Sharman. West did a nice job of maintaining it.

Shaquille O'Neal from Orlando, Kevin Durant from OKC, and now Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. He's been doing this for decades with various teams, Lakers, Warriors and now Clippers. He's probably a better executive than he was a player, which boggles the mind. The Clippers are now the best team in the NBA and those clueless dullards currently running the Lakers got pwned by one of their own.

[TheMaus2]

Cobra, after all 3 marquee FAs went to either LA/NY, do you still think its just the media projecting on to the players? Genuinely curious

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by TheMaus2

Cobra, after all 3 marquee FAs went to either LA/NY, do you still think its just the media projecting on to the players? Genuinely curious

Yes. Cause the media are fans of the Knicks & Lakers. Not the Clippers & the Nets. And my point was about the Knicks specifically. The NY media thinks, the Knicks, Yanks & Giants are the center of the sports universe. They aren't as myopic & obnoxious about the Nets, Jets & Mets.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Shaquille O'Neal from Orlando, Kevin Durant from OKC, and now Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. He's been doing this for decades with various teams, Lakers, Warriors and now Clippers. He's probably a better executive than he was a player, which boggles the mind. The Clippers are now the best team in the NBA and those clueless dullards currently running the Lakers got pwned by one of their own.

Do we know that Jerry West had a significant role in making those acquisitions happen?

I recall that Durant was pretty heavily recruited by the Warrior stars, even - as I recall - while he was still a member of OKC...

As for Leonard & George, Leo wanted to get to So Cal, close to his home. He wanted his buddy and star to join him. So if you're suggesting that Doc Rivers, Steve Balmer, and Lawrence Frank turned to Jerry and said, "We're thinking of pairing up two of the top 5 players in the NBA - one of whom is proven leader and champion - to go along with our solid young core and championship-level coach. What do you think?" And then Jerry - in all of his masterful & exalted consultantness - had the remarkable instincts to say, "Yeah, I think that's a good idea...," whereas most other front office types would've rejected the proposition. Well, if that's your contention... uh, ok....

Sure, West made some bold moves in dumping 3/5's of his starting lineup to make financial room for O'Neal, before he was certain Shaq would sign. But let's face it: West was not the GM of the Vancouver Grizzlies trying to somehow convince Shaq to buy some parkas and head north. Shaq wanted to go to glitzy LA. I give West all the props he deserves for taking the (slight) gamble, and then additional credit for handing Shaq the pen with which to sign his deal...

Was JW fortunate enough to be in a position to help influence these teams and players? Sure. But I suspect that other factors - and not "OMG, Jerry West is part of the organization! I HAVE to be a part of that!" - played a much larger role.

I reiterate that West is, IMO, a sharp exec. He's made some nice moves, some of them risky (trading Norm Nixon to get Byron Scott; acquiring Mychal Thompson; trading Vlade for Kobe). Would I want him on my staff if I owned a team? You bet. My contention is not that he's an idiot. It's that he is WAY over-credited for many of his successes. And his gaffes (which, like other GM's, he's certainly had) are often overlooked. He's over-credited for putting together Showtime, over-credited for supposedly turning around Memphis, and way over-credited for supposedly being able to pluck diamonds out of late draft positions.

One can be very good at something and also be overrated. That's West, IMO. And there's plenty of evidence to support it for anyone willing to look beyond a simple accounting of Showtime rings, and instead examine facts and context.

My prediction is that one day when West has been six feet deep for years, his idolizers will still be finding ways to give him credit for future moves...