Competitive balance discussion

[stl jason]

I have to disagree....



your post wasn't *that* long

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by Kangostar

First I will start off by saying I guess I am a whale, I dropped 50 on my main name - I call it a donation. Waiting on 20



Even though PT is 'Out of beta' it's really not, well that's how I look(ed) at it. The 'Beta' was the alpha - we're now in the beta and 20 is the official release. And I knew that and still invested my time and money - my playtime went from 1100 to 1600 since PT....most of that is because I fall asleep with the game running but that's because I play it until I'm forced by the other half to go to bed or my body just says NO.



Some people pay $60 for a game you only have 20-80 hours in and you're done. Some people don't understand that if it wasn't for 'whales' the game/feature would not be FTP. You Think Clash or Fortnite or ANY FTP game could stay FTP if whales did not buy every skin? Or rush their Townhall from 4 to 9 in a week and wonder why they still suck?



In the MLB clearly the Yanks are the whales, someone like the A's would be FTP. Yes the A's have to do a lot more managing alot more luck to make it to the series. But is it possible? Yes. Do the Yanks or Dodgers or BoSox win it EVERY year? No. What's the difference?



And you expect the staff of OOTP to run two servers one CC friendly and one not. Why? Only one pays for itself, times 100 I'm sure - you expect the one to pay for both?

I agree with you that this feels like a beta. I disagree that this free to play game. I bought the game just to give PT a try.

I'd like a free to play server because it would be more fun and be enjoyable for a longer period of time. It's that simple. I'm in this for my fun, not to maximize their profit.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by ike121212

I'd like a free to play server because it would be more fun and be enjoyable for a longer period of time. It's that simple. I'm in this for my fun, not to maximize their profit.

Say the cost of a new game is about $50. If you could just play for free on your own little server, then maybe you should have to pay the cost of a new game to offset the expense OOTP has in developing and maintaining your total FTP atmosphere and league. But I bet you do not want to do that either.

Their profit is what gives you a game to play and complain about.

If you are in it for your fun then have fun. In a few weeks you will be in a league with like minded people through relegation.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

Say the cost of a new game is about $50. If you could just play for free on your own little server, then maybe you should have to pay the cost of a new game to offset the expense OOTP has in developing and maintaining your total FTP atmosphere and league. But I bet you do not want to do that either.

Their profit is what gives you a game to play and complain about.

If you are in it for your fun then have fun. In a few weeks you will be in a league with like minded people through relegation.

My fun comes largely from building my team. With all the extra PP floating around at the start, I'm pretty much done with that process. Beta had a slower pace and was more fun.

[silvam14]

I think there are plenty of people who love this game so much and have enough disposable income to spend extra $$ on PT.

Good on Markus for finding another revenue stream and at the same time adding yet another way to play.


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[el_gringo]

I agree 100%, though I have a slightly different take on this final piece:

Originally Posted by Kangostar

And you expect the staff of OOTP to run two servers one CC friendly and one not. Why? Only one pays for itself, times 100 I'm sure - you expect the one to pay for both?

It doesn't make great sense to create a F2P server alongside the normal one at launch. However, I would argue that - especially if the single server is paying for itself 100 times over - it wouldn't be an unreasonable 'fan-service' ask that someday, sometime in the future, a small portion of that profit be used to run a F2P-only (maybe with an initial up-front cost to buy in) server on outdated tech. I.e. once OOTP 21 or 22 or 23 is launched, and each PT version has made tons of money, perhaps a little bit can be spent to create a F2P-only OOTP 19 server. Wouldn't detract from current revenue streams, but would offer a fun, truly level playing field for those who crave (and would pay a bit to have access to) such an environment.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I think there are plenty of people who love this game so much and have enough disposable income to spend extra $$ on PT.

Good on Markus for finding another revenue stream and at the same time adding yet another way to play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I think he found a gold mine. All his hard work will finally pay off big time.

[Orcin]

There won’t be a F2P server. Won’t happen. Horse is dead.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by ike121212

My fun comes largely from building my team. With all the extra PP floating around at the start, I'm pretty much done with that process. Beta had a slower pace and was more fun.

Then start another team and build it You can also fine tune your built team too.

[daves]

If you take the average player rating for the starting lineup and pitcher for both teams and there is a difference of 10 or more, the underdog team should get some kind of reward for winning. This would seem fair since the high end spending teams get all kind of rewards for pummeling the underdogs. There are all these rewards, how about something for the non-spending little guy?

Just a thought.

[ike121212]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

Then start another team and build it You can also fine tune your built team too.

There's 1 player left on my wish list, if I can snag him, I'll tweak a little. He's quite rare though. Since I'd be swapping out a 93 ARod, it's at best a marginal upgrade.

I don't have much interest in a second team.

[sentry85]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

Sorry. If you want rewards you need to pummel crap teams.

i must be making a lot teams really happy- the regularly pummeled

[Ashbury]

Color me amazed at the lengthy and vitriolic thread generated by my "I'm Out" post. That thread's closed now - my apologies to the moderators for giving them any additional work to do - but now I feel as though I should clarify and also add some missing detail.


During the PT Beta I made a post explaining why I would drop out once the official product launch occurred. I wrote it as a former software developer and product manager, giving a view of why a well-designed product wasn't going to be used by me. It's here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=295309


I didn't feel like repeating myself when I posted most recently, but I guess I should have provided a summary.



My problem is the addictiveness of the online game. Those who surmised that my problem is with the cost have guessed wrong where it comes to dollars - it is all about the cost measured in time. It's so much fun, that I knew I should not even embark on that journey.


The poster (Eckstein 4 Prez) who mentioned a Skinner Box had it right. I wouldn't have thought to put it in those terms, but when I read it today it immediately resonated. Every incremental little success results in a shot of dopamine (I'm no medical expert, this is just shorthand). Each simulation each half-hour results in an irresistible urge to log in "just to check" and then, once in, I tinker with the roster. Lots of positive reinforcement, very little negative, and it's just so easy to waste the entire day and then regret it.


So, having resolved not to play, I decided to blow up my in-game resources. I was bored that day, and decided to do a careful destruction, taking quite a bit of time (paradoxically, but one last gasp of manufactured "fun").


I had two teams, and I decided to try to speed things up by combining the PP and squander them more quickly than separately. This ran afoul of the game's rules against collusion. So be it - but a moment of common sense would look at the two teams involved and see that neither has any players anymore nor any points. The nastygram sent to both email addresses was irritating, even if nominally deserved. The message threatened banishment - hey, I have no players, no points, no resources at all, dude!


If not for that, I probably wouldn't have bothered to post.


I fully understand the game owners wanting to maintain integrity. I have to say, though, that if Little Ol' Me can pose a threat with my two rinky-dink teams, the underlying economics of the game are more vulnerable than most players probably realize. They've built a rather rickety structure that will require constant vigilance. Good luck with that. But, Not My Problem. As I said, I'm out.


Anyway, one of the reasons I decided to blow up my teams is that the temptation to log in is present every time I fire up the regular game. I do that for reasons unrelated to actual game-play - I like OOTP's scouting reports. With an ad for PT on the opening splash screen, I knew I had to do something, or eventually I would give in.


I forgot one thing though - PT keeps giving you free points. I thought with no players at all, this wouldn't happen. How in the heck do I "earn" anything from achievements, with a team composed entirely of guys named "Jim Unknown"? But that's part of the addictive quality built into the game now. Indeed, I looked at my approximately 2500 PP, up from just 5 only a couple of days earlier, and spent half an hour looking at the auction house to gauge what kind of halfway-decent team could be constructed with that lordly sum. Turns out it could be a little interesting to try it. And I know I shouldn't.


So, I think that kind of covers it. My last post committed the sin of being too terse. This time I've gone on too long. I'm apparently incapable of modulating my behavior. Thanks for listening.

[Orcin]

In before the lock.

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Ashbury

Color me amazed at the lengthy and vitriolic thread generated by my "I'm Out" post.

I wasn't surprised at all. People here are just looking for reasons to go for their gun IMO. After your post, there was another thread created whose sole purpose seemed to be to start a fight. Most people, rightly, just ignored it.

Originally Posted by Ashbury

So, having resolved not to play, I decided to blow up my in-game resources.

I suspected that's what it was and it is the most reasonable solution to your problem. I'm happy for you, that you were able to suck it up and complete your task. I've been on games and websites where people deliberately attempt to get banned for the same reason.

So was your post sort of like when someone says, "I'm going on a diet", and then it forces them to live up to the statement? There's a word for what I'm talking about - forget what it is. Hopefully you know what I mean.

Perhaps a broader solution would be to give people the ability to write to the devs and ask for a ban. It wouldn't get PT off the title screen, but it would stop things from getting out of hand for people who have that addictive characteristic.

Likely this will get locked, but I'm glad you did what was best for yourself and I hope everyone understands what you were doing now. Best of luck with the solo game!

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

I wasn't surprised at all. People here are just looking for reasons to go for their gun IMO.

I hate to harp on the issue, but you do realize that no one went for their gun over Ashbury's post, right? The thread is still up, you can take a look at it - no one particularly cared that he was leaving until Airdrop showed up and blasted everyone for no good reason. Without Airdrop's post, that thread probably dies a quiet death.

EDIT: On-topic, I think we should be glad that the devs caught the collusion so quickly. It shouldn't matter how competitive the two teams are, they saw potential cheating and they took action. That's a good thing.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

I hate to harp on the issue, but you do realize that no one went for their gun over Ashbury's post, right? The thread is still up, you can take a look at it - no one particularly cared that he was leaving until Airdrop showed up and blasted everyone for no good reason. Without Airdrop's post, that thread probably dies a quiet death.

EDIT: On-topic, I think we should be glad that the devs caught the collusion so quickly. It shouldn't matter how competitive the two teams are, they saw potential cheating and they took action. That's a good thing.

Yea, my takeaway from that thread was....Awesome!...the collusion scripts are working!

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

I hate to harp on the issue, but you do realize that no one went for their gun over Ashbury's post, right? The thread is still up, you can take a look at it - no one particularly cared that he was leaving until Airdrop showed up and blasted everyone for no good reason. Without Airdrop's post, that thread probably dies a quiet death.

EDIT: On-topic, I think we should be glad that the devs caught the collusion so quickly. It shouldn't matter how competitive the two teams are, they saw potential cheating and they took action. That's a good thing.

Exactly. There are far too many people building strawmen, burning them, and blaming OOTPD for their own ill-mannered behavior.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

I wasn't surprised at all. People here are just looking for reasons to go for their gun IMO. After your post, there was another thread created whose sole purpose seemed to be to start a fight.

And the purpose of your post is to make peace?

[daves]

I know there was a debate on spending cash, but I am not sure after time it can be avoided? I have not played for long, but when you start it is easy to fill your roster full of bronze players. Many bronze players can be bought for under 100 PP. But as your team gets better it cost more to get those silver players. And as you upgrade the silver players you will need gold players with more coins etc etc. Yes you get rewards for pummeling weak teams and you can sell off some players, but after a while the rewards may not be enough and buying coins maybe necessary?


Thoughts?