Keeping My Closer out of Non-Save Situations

Danius · 08-10-2017, 09:24 AM

In OOTP18, I seem to have a lot of trouble keeping my closers out of non-save situations. I'm allowing AI to control the games, but I'm setting the lineups. It seems that in every close game (2 runs or less), my closer is coming into the game in the 9th inning. They don't tend to do well in situations where the game is tied, or I am down a run or two. In a couple of my leagues, the closer has the most innings pitched of my entire bullpen (and most appearances), and more wins+losses than saves. They also tend to get tired by doing this, and when a real save situation comes up, they are already gassed, and either blow it, or are unavailable to pitch due to tiredness.
I have tried many combinations to limit their action in non-save situations, but nothing seems to have worked. Does anyone know of a way to save closers for save situations (at least mostly)?

bailey · 08-10-2017, 05:05 PM

I've noticed this too, and the only way I can find is to forget the closer designation and use stopper with a usage of 8th or later and lead. My 2nd best reliever is stopper with a usage of 8th or later. Of course, this means 2 inning saves.

What's needed is a usage option for closer: 9th or later and lead.

'94 EXPOS · 08-10-2017, 05:06 PM

Other than playing the games out yourself I have not found a way....my all star closer struggles mightily in tied games!

MrBojangles · 08-10-2017, 08:41 PM

What is the reason a tied game = poor closer performance?

Shouldn't their performance be independent of the game score?

Danius · 08-11-2017, 06:25 AM

You should think so, but it's not the case. In the season I just finished in the league I played last night, my first closer was 3-9 with 8 saves, including a 2.00 ERA in save situations, and an ERA over 8 in non-save situations. I demoted him (and subsequently lost him to injury for the season), and replaced him with a guy who went 5-7 with 11 saves, and a 4.11 ERA. He allowed only 2 runs in save situations.

I know that some of my failure has to do with the fact that I don't want my best reliever to be my closer...he's usually 3rd or 4th among my bullpen. I suppose if my closer was my #1 bullpen guy, he'd be more successful, but in reality, I don't think a closer should be the #1 guy. Most of them only get 35-40 save opportunities in a season, and many times, they can give up a run and are still fine (team is up 2 or 3). For me, I'd rather put my best guy in a spot where he can pitch 60-70 times, and I can use him in high-leverage situations in any inning.

There are many real life closers that struggle in non-save situations. Cody Allen, Francisco Rodriguez and Greg Holland are three that come to mind. In 2011, Detroit closer Jose Valverde was a perfect 49 for 49 with an 0.49 ERA in save situations. In his non-save situations that year, his ERA was 6.98.

Thanks for the input, guys. I was going to put in a suggestion for OOTP19 concerning this, but I wanted to know if anyone had figured out a way around it yet. While it's not totally realistic in today's world that a closer never gets into a non-save situation (you can't give a pitcher no work for two weeks because he doesn't get a save situation in that time), something should be done to keep closers out of so many of them in the OOTP.

'94 EXPOS · 08-11-2017, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

What is the reason a tied game = poor closer performance?

Shouldn't their performance be independent of the game score?

Nothing empirical but I have noticed it in real life as well...I believe there is a mental aspect to closing where some guys are able to take it up a notch but only in those tight situations....where as some guys wilt in the same scenario...finishing a game requires a unique mindset....I coach minor fastball and I can't tell you how many times at the close of a pitching practice session where you tell the pitcher "one more strike and we're done" and then you end standing there for five minutes lol...

The very best pitchers are able to deliver the goods no matter what the situation....which is a tribute as much to their mental toughness as to their talent

curt · 08-11-2017, 07:41 PM

I play out all my games PBP. This year I decided to use my closer an average of every 2 games to get some innings in (his 3rd year with me). I won a lot of games last year where a save was not possible and he didn't play much. He is collecting a high salary. He also has a stamina of 76/100. This year after 100 games I am 65 wins 35 losses, he has pitched 52.2 innings. 18 saves blown 2, win loss is 5-1.
So what if I only used him in save situations this year??? My total save opportunities were 25 !!! I'm paying him to play. His ERA is 2.05 with a whip of 0.72. So he is pitching very well in all circumstances in his 40 appearances. (he missed 8 games with a mild injury). I am what I consider a practical manager. He is a specialist but if I have no work for him, he needs to be used in another area.

SirMichaelJordan · 09-03-2017, 09:45 PM

Noticed this in the past two versions of the game. Every closer in the game appear in non save situations. I read it was by design. This really screws up the win lose record and fatigue for closers in the game...

Its not unusual to see a closer with a win loss record similar to a starter in the game.

Dyzalot · 09-03-2017, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curt

I play out all my games PBP. This year I decided to use my closer an average of every 2 games to get some innings in (his 3rd year with me). I won a lot of games last year where a save was not possible and he didn't play much. He is collecting a high salary. He also has a stamina of 76/100. This year after 100 games I am 65 wins 35 losses, he has pitched 52.2 innings. 18 saves blown 2, win loss is 5-1.
So what if I only used him in save situations this year??? My total save opportunities were 25 !!! I'm paying him to play. His ERA is 2.05 with a whip of 0.72. So he is pitching very well in all circumstances in his 40 appearances. (he missed 8 games with a mild injury). I am what I consider a practical manager. He is a specialist but if I have no work for him, he needs to be used in another area.

A lot of this comes down to what you are trying to accomplish with the game. Some people just want to win as many games as possible. Some people want to simulate MLB as closely as possible. These two goals can often have conflicting strategies. I prefer the simulation goal so even though I hate sac bunting, I want my pitchers at least to sac bunt as well as see one from a poor hitting position player once in a while in a situation that makes some sense. Even though I know saves is a crap statistic, I still want to see my closer used primarily to get saves. Even though I understand the attempted stolen base is a marginally positive strategy at best, I want to see my speedy, lead off guys steal some bases. So I understand the request of the OP as to how to keep his closer from being used so often in situations that they likely wouldn't be used for in the actual MLB.

curt · 09-16-2017, 11:41 PM

My closer ended up having a great year after all.

08-10-2017, 05:05 PM	#2
bailey Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,127	I've noticed this too, and the only way I can find is to forget the closer designation and use stopper with a usage of 8th or later and lead. My 2nd best reliever is stopper with a usage of 8th or later. Of course, this means 2 inning saves. What's needed is a usage option for closer: 9th or later and lead. __________________

08-11-2017, 06:25 AM	#5
Danius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Northern Indiana, USA Posts: 121	You should think so, but it's not the case. In the season I just finished in the league I played last night, my first closer was 3-9 with 8 saves, including a 2.00 ERA in save situations, and an ERA over 8 in non-save situations. I demoted him (and subsequently lost him to injury for the season), and replaced him with a guy who went 5-7 with 11 saves, and a 4.11 ERA. He allowed only 2 runs in save situations. I know that some of my failure has to do with the fact that I don't want my best reliever to be my closer...he's usually 3rd or 4th among my bullpen. I suppose if my closer was my #1 bullpen guy, he'd be more successful, but in reality, I don't think a closer should be the #1 guy. Most of them only get 35-40 save opportunities in a season, and many times, they can give up a run and are still fine (team is up 2 or 3). For me, I'd rather put my best guy in a spot where he can pitch 60-70 times, and I can use him in high-leverage situations in any inning. There are many real life closers that struggle in non-save situations. Cody Allen, Francisco Rodriguez and Greg Holland are three that come to mind. In 2011, Detroit closer Jose Valverde was a perfect 49 for 49 with an 0.49 ERA in save situations. In his non-save situations that year, his ERA was 6.98. Thanks for the input, guys. I was going to put in a suggestion for OOTP19 concerning this, but I wanted to know if anyone had figured out a way around it yet. While it's not totally realistic in today's world that a closer never gets into a non-save situation (you can't give a pitcher no work for two weeks because he doesn't get a save situation in that time), something should be done to keep closers out of so many of them in the OOTP. Last edited by Danius; 08-11-2017 at 06:30 AM.

09-03-2017, 09:45 PM	#8
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,627	Noticed this in the past two versions of the game. Every closer in the game appear in non save situations. I read it was by design. This really screws up the win lose record and fatigue for closers in the game... Its not unusual to see a closer with a win loss record similar to a starter in the game. Last edited by SirMichaelJordan; 09-03-2017 at 09:49 PM.

09-16-2017, 11:41 PM	#10
curt Major Leagues Join Date: May 2013 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 456	My closer ended up having a great year after all. Attached Images

08-10-2017, 09:24 AM	#1
Danius Minors (Double A) Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Northern Indiana, USA Posts: 121	Keeping My Closer out of Non-Save Situations In OOTP18, I seem to have a lot of trouble keeping my closers out of non-save situations. I'm allowing AI to control the games, but I'm setting the lineups. It seems that in every close game (2 runs or less), my closer is coming into the game in the 9th inning. They don't tend to do well in situations where the game is tied, or I am down a run or two. In a couple of my leagues, the closer has the most innings pitched of my entire bullpen (and most appearances), and more wins+losses than saves. They also tend to get tired by doing this, and when a real save situation comes up, they are already gassed, and either blow it, or are unavailable to pitch due to tiredness. I have tried many combinations to limit their action in non-save situations, but nothing seems to have worked. Does anyone know of a way to save closers for save situations (at least mostly)? Last edited by Danius; 08-10-2017 at 09:26 AM.

08-10-2017, 05:06 PM	#3
'94 EXPOS Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 311	Other than playing the games out yourself I have not found a way....my all star closer struggles mightily in tied games!

08-10-2017, 08:41 PM	#4
MrBojangles All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: low and inside Posts: 568	What is the reason a tied game = poor closer performance? Shouldn't their performance be independent of the game score?

08-11-2017, 07:41 PM	#7
curt Major Leagues Join Date: May 2013 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 456	I play out all my games PBP. This year I decided to use my closer an average of every 2 games to get some innings in (his 3rd year with me). I won a lot of games last year where a save was not possible and he didn't play much. He is collecting a high salary. He also has a stamina of 76/100. This year after 100 games I am 65 wins 35 losses, he has pitched 52.2 innings. 18 saves blown 2, win loss is 5-1. So what if I only used him in save situations this year??? My total save opportunities were 25 !!! I'm paying him to play. His ERA is 2.05 with a whip of 0.72. So he is pitching very well in all circumstances in his 40 appearances. (he missed 8 games with a mild injury). I am what I consider a practical manager. He is a specialist but if I have no work for him, he needs to be used in another area.