Player Progression Across Seasons

whaleheader · 05-02-2018, 12:31 PM

I'm still getting a handle on the lingo and I'm hoping to ask this question correctly.

I'm starting a season with the real 2018 Opening Day rosters (actually the players on the rosters) in OOTP 19. We're using real players (no fictional at all). This will be an online league with 18 human owners. We are porting from another game. I have imported all 1200 major and minor league players (including salaries and service time) from our old league.

The plan is to play our future seasons on the real baseball schedule, April to October. Our 2018 season will start a little late this year but will end on time.

Although I'm sure an EOS roster will be available at some point in November, I don't believe it's something I should be messing with if we're planning on moving to OOTP 20 next March/April.

If I don't apply a roster update in November and wait until OOTP 20 comes out, will that impact the off-season?

When we update to OOTP 20 next March, how do the player ratings change? Do they get changed based on the Historical Player Ratings recalc settings? ??Recalc player ratings base on real stats after each year??

(I **think** with player development turned on players can progress a little during the season, so a rookie not ready at the start of the year might be ready with more seasoning. When the player gets recalculated, though, any progression will be wiped out.)

I guess I'm a confused about the terminology and differences between advancing a season (which I assume takes place at the end of the current league year -- 2018 in OOTP 19) and progressing during the year, and moving to a new game version/season.

So, when does the recalc take place? At the end of the season when we advance to the off-season or when when we buy OOTP 20?

If it's when we buy OOTP 20, do the player ratings change to 2019 Opening Day Ratings or do they get recalculated based on my Historical Player Ratings recalculation setting in the Historical section of the Game Settings.

OOTP looks like a wonderful game with a lot of flexibility in how things get set up. I must admit some of the options are a little daunting to get set up the way each person likes.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Orcin · 05-02-2018, 12:48 PM

If you start with 2018 MLB rosters, only the current season is based on actual ZIPS projections. The game progresses from there using the development engine. There is no recalc. The rosters going into the offseason reflect the roster moves and transactions that were made in your game.

whaleheader · 05-02-2018, 02:31 PM

Right. The rosters (which are fictional) will change and evolve.

What happens when I turn the season over at the end of the season? Do any player ratings change at that point?

In 2019 when I upgrade to OOTP 20, how do the players evolve? Does the game recalculate with 2019 and 2018 ratings based on my settings or do 2019 setting overwrite the 2018 ratings?

Thanks again.

Orcin · 05-03-2018, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whaleheader

Right. The rosters (which are fictional) will change and evolve.

What happens when I turn the season over at the end of the season? Do any player ratings change at that point?

They might. Some will and some won't. Some might change in the spring. Some won't change all year. You will receive player development reports to tell you what has happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whaleheader

In 2019 when I upgrade to OOTP 20, how do the players evolve? Does the game recalculate with 2019 and 2018 ratings based on my settings or do 2019 setting overwrite the 2018 ratings?

You don't have to wait until OOTP20 to play the 2019 season. You can just keep playing in OOTP19. So there is no "recalc" based on new settings. The players continue to evolve as if it is a fictional league.

If you stop playing after the 2018 season and wait for the release of OOTP20 to continue your league, the league that you upgrade to OOTP20 will be the same league that you played in OOTP19. So you will just continue where you left off.

In order to get new ratings based on 2019 projections, you have to start a new league in OOTP20. However, this league would not contain your results from the 2018 season. It would have the real results.

I hope this answers your question because I am still not sure that I understand the question.

whaleheader · 05-03-2018, 04:12 PM

Sorry, Standard/Fictional/Historical/Custom/backups/templates gets little confusing for a newcomer.

OK, a little background. I'm coming from the Strat-O-Matic/Dynasty League Baseball/Diamond Mind Baseball model. I have a keeper league where we sign players and play one of these types of games. We've done it 28 out of the last 30 years. With these games, a new season "card set" comes out every season, with updated ratings and stats from the previous MLB season.

We're tying to move to OOTP where we keep our players from season to season but get updated ratings (and amateur draft lists) each new season. Now whether these player ratings are modified projections based on ZiPS, or projections calculated by blending together projections and past season data doesn't really matter as long as the player's rating are updated in an historical context that connects our Fictional League with our combined reality that is MLB.

Is there a way to accomplish this objective?

I've spent 70 hours in the last two weeks inside the game engine (at least that's what Steam tells me) and I've spent about another 70 hours Googling the game, learning as much as I can about how things work.

Thankfully many of the wonderful people on this board have tried to answer my many questions, including you. I am very lucky you've shared your time and knowledge.

Hopefully, though, these extra words clarify my question a little better and provide enough information so that I can figure out whether the game engine can support our plan for creating our own little baseball universe.

Thanks in advance for any clarity provided.

Orcin · 05-03-2018, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whaleheader

We're tying to move to OOTP where we keep our players from season to season but get updated ratings (and amateur draft lists) each new season. Now whether these player ratings are modified projections based on ZiPS, or projections calculated by blending together projections and past season data doesn't really matter as long as the player's rating are updated in an historical context that connects our Fictional League with our combined reality that is MLB.

Is there a way to accomplish this objective?

OOTP doesn't come with a card set. The players are built-in.

However, you can move players from team to team using the player editor. So you could structure the rosters for next year's game any way that you want with a little effort.

whaleheader · 05-04-2018, 05:33 AM

Just to make sure I'm being clear...my base season was created with Standard Game. From there I modified the league structure and moved players to their appropriate team in my league. I then converted their league service time to my league's service time.

From there I set the Historical Settings to:
1) Automatically adjust league totals modifiers after each season,
2) Recalc player ratings based on real stats after each year (3-year base, double weight for current year stats),
3) Neutralized stats,
4) Selected recalc period only, and
5) 3-year period for fielding and pitcher stamina.

I set the Historical Year to 2018.
--------------------------------------------------

OK, so the recalc setting won't come into play at all? Players will only advance using the development engine?

Does this mean I would have been better off creating an Historical Game based on 2017 and setting up my league? If that's true, what's the timeframe I should advance my league so the 2018 season stats will be available to progress with real stats into next season?

If I base my league on 2017 historical, is there any way to get real amateur players for the 2018 season in league this year?

Also, how can I get real amateurs in my draft pool every year going forward?

Thanks again for the insight.

Orcin · 05-04-2018, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whaleheader

OK, so the recalc setting won't come into play at all?NO Players will only advance using the development engine?YES

Does this mean I would have been better off creating an Historical Game based on 2017 and setting up my league?NO If that's true, what's the timeframe I should advance my league so the 2018 season stats will be available to progress with real stats into next season?

If I base my league on 2017 historical, is there any way to get real amateur players for the 2018 season in league this year? NO

Also, how can I get real amateurs in my draft pool every year going forward?You can't.

Thanks again for the insight.

I think you are still confused about how OOTPB works. I don't know how else to explain it. Sorry.

whaleheader · 05-04-2018, 01:53 PM

Actually I believe I'm starting to get it.

I could create an historical league based on 2017 and include historical minor leaguers. I could then modify the teams in the league to reflect the teams and players in my old league. I would then have all the 2017 players and the league structure I am looking for. I could play this league in (real) 2018 stopping on the last World Series game day.

I would then have to wait for the historical file to get updated to 2018 and updated the historical file for my game. Once that's done I could advance to 2018 and the players would be recalculated.

Correct?

Another option I would have is a little more work but I believe would be doable.

I took the 2018 opening day file and modified it for my league structure and rosters. This file includes real amateurs for the draft. I play the season and roll over to 2019 when the season is complete.

After Spring Training I stop the advancement of MY LEAGUE until OOTP 20 gets released. At this point I export all rosters. I also export the complete roster file for OOTP. I match up the players in MY LEAGUE and with the players in OOTP 20. I look for any players in OOTP 20 who don't have a player match. I create fictional players in MY LEAGUE and match them to the players without a match in OOTP20. I then update the player file in MY LEAGUE with the ratings from OOTP 20. I reimport MY LEAGUE roster back into my game.

At that point I have OOTP 20 Opening Day ratings in MY LEAGUE.

When the Amateur Pool is released I following essentially the same process I did with my player file.

At that point I have OOTP 20 players in my league.

Does this make sense now?

Orcin · 05-04-2018, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whaleheader

I would then have to wait for the historical file to get updated to 2018 and updated the historical file for my game. Once that's done I could advance to 2018 and the players would be recalculated.

Correct?

No, this will never happen. The OOTP18 "historical file" (whatever you think that is) will not "update" the ratings for players in a game started as a historical game in 2017. It does not work that way. The ratings for the players will develop from the 2017 starting point, totaling ignoring what happened in 2018 and any subsequent year.

I have no idea whether your second option would work. I have never heard of anyone doing it. But to answer your question specifically, it does not make sense at all to me.

Why not just play the game in a career mode with the development engine on? In other words, use the product as it is designed.

whaleheader · 05-04-2018, 03:15 PM

Sorry, not trying to irritate you. I'm just trying to figure out whether I can almost use the game in real time while tethered to reality.

If I create a Standard Game in OOTP 19, I am tethered to its MLB reality. If I create a Standard Game in OOTP 20, I am tethered to that version's MLB reality.

Within those realities I can change teams, rearrange leagues, and redraft the players, which moves the game into more of a fictional setting. No matter how I rearrange things, though, I am still tethered to the player ratings in that version of MLB reality.

All I'm looking to accomplish is binding those seasons together to a common reality of my league, not MLB.

As for using the historical file...if I begin playing in 1975 can't I tether players to it by recalculating their stats each year using the historical database? With the proper settings I can play 1976 within the same game creating a new history for all the players of that era based on their real play in those seasons. I can't see how moving between 1975 and 1976 would be any different mechanically than moving between 2017 and 2018, provided that I'm willing to wait into the real 2018 season has been played and the historical file is regenerated with its data.

I thank you again for responding and appreciate your patience.

Orcin · 05-04-2018, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whaleheader

I can't see how moving between 1975 and 1976 would be any different mechanically than moving between 2017 and 2018, provided that I'm willing to wait into the real 2018 season has been played and the historical file is regenerated with its data.

It should work if you buy the next version and import your league prior to the point where the recalc happens. I have never done this so I can’t guarantee it will work or tell you how to do it.

Hemi425HP · 05-04-2018, 05:59 PM

I think what you're trying to do is possible by exporting, modifying, and re-importing the database. That is way outside of my area of expertise because it's not what I consider "fun." I like alternative realities and different progressions. The folks in the database tools section of the mods forums would be best equipped to show you the way.

BirdWatcher · 05-04-2018, 06:13 PM

My sense here (and I apologize beforehand if I'm really misinterpreting everything and not being at all helpful), as someone who comes from a Strat-O-Matic background myself, is that while what you are looking for is perhaps possible with some serious gaming gymnastics, it might be a case of trying to get similar results with an animal very different than the one you are used to.
Or in other words, it might be possible to teach your cat to do tricks your dog was earlier able to master, but it might be less frustrating to get another dog or learn to love your cat for its cat-like qualities instead?

whaleheader · 05-04-2018, 07:22 PM

Actually the baseball universe I'm trying to build is entirely different to the way people play games like Strat, DMB, and Dynasty. It also seems to be different from the way people are playing OOTP. I will try to explain.

Essentially I'm trying to play in the present.

When you play Strat, DMB, Dynasty and the like, you look back at a single season. You have perfect hindsight. If a player hit 50 homers in 2017 MLB, he'll be rated to hit 50 homers in the 2017 game version. (Of course, with the way things work in those games, he might very well hit 70 in the replay, which is something I've never liked.)

This is somewhat similar to the way people play historical leagues in OOTP. You pick out a season, say 1945, and play into the future using the historical progression as a tether to real baseball. Things are the same but different. Nevertheless, people have an idea how players careers will turn out.

Now, OOTP has another option. You can start with a real season and progress forward untethered to MLB. You proceed with no idea how things will play out. I can see the allure of such play. At some point in the future I might play in such a league. I'm not ready now, though, because I know the guys in my league, like those playing in OOTP historical leagues tied to MLB with autocalc, aren't ready to make the leap into totally fictitious players because they like the fantasy of being GM of real MLB players.

So, I'd like to keep my league tethered to real players.

Getting back to using the Strat-like model, another problem with those games is, you play the game in the season after the rated season. In 2018 you play the 2017 rated season.

In Dynasty/keeper league this creates a problem. Teams who don't play well often trade what few good players they have in the middle of the season when they see them playing poorly in real life. They often trade those players for less than full value for players who are doing well in real life. This is particularly a problem with leagues who play late into the real MLB season.

I'd like to have my current league season take place as close to real time as possible to minimize the perfect hindsight issue while keeping the game tethered to real life. At the same time, I'd like to keep the history of my league available. (I don't think I need to explain the last part.)

OOTP's release of the current season rosters seem like a great way to accomplish what I'm trying to do. The ratings are tied to real life but have enough variance to make current play less predictable. When you tie in some in-season development and add the the ability to utilize minor leaguers you end up with a model that's a lot closer to the experience of real-life GMs (with players you actually can watch on TV). Additionally, again using the current game (2019 this year), you can have an amateur draft of real players in a similar timeline to real life. To top it all off, my league can use the excellent AI and tracking the game has to offer.

To me, this would make my league as close to the real thing as possible.

whaleheader · 05-04-2018, 07:30 PM

After more research I'm sure this is doable. I have the technical skills for the DB stuff.

The main issue is the timeline of turning the league over right after the World Series. This would make the scouting information in OOTP pretty much useless. We'd have to sign players without the assistance of our OOTP scouts and ratings, who will only come into play for in-season play. If the historical database was updated sometime in late November/early December I might accept that trade-off. From what I've been able to ascertain, it comes out when the new version comes out in March. If I'm going to wait that long, I may as well use the Opening Day rosters.

Thanks again to the insights. I'm finding the games community is very helpful.

05-02-2018, 12:31 PM	#1
whaleheader Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 221	Player Progression Across Seasons I'm still getting a handle on the lingo and I'm hoping to ask this question correctly. I'm starting a season with the real 2018 Opening Day rosters (actually the players on the rosters) in OOTP 19. We're using real players (no fictional at all). This will be an online league with 18 human owners. We are porting from another game. I have imported all 1200 major and minor league players (including salaries and service time) from our old league. The plan is to play our future seasons on the real baseball schedule, April to October. Our 2018 season will start a little late this year but will end on time. Although I'm sure an EOS roster will be available at some point in November, I don't believe it's something I should be messing with if we're planning on moving to OOTP 20 next March/April. If I don't apply a roster update in November and wait until OOTP 20 comes out, will that impact the off-season? When we update to OOTP 20 next March, how do the player ratings change? Do they get changed based on the Historical Player Ratings recalc settings? ??Recalc player ratings base on real stats after each year?? (I think with player development turned on players can progress a little during the season, so a rookie not ready at the start of the year might be ready with more seasoning. When the player gets recalculated, though, any progression will be wiped out.) I guess I'm a confused about the terminology and differences between advancing a season (which I assume takes place at the end of the current league year -- 2018 in OOTP 19) and progressing during the year, and moving to a new game version/season. So, when does the recalc take place? At the end of the season when we advance to the off-season or when when we buy OOTP 20? If it's when we buy OOTP 20, do the player ratings change to 2019 Opening Day Ratings or do they get recalculated based on my Historical Player Ratings recalculation setting in the Historical section of the Game Settings. OOTP looks like a wonderful game with a lot of flexibility in how things get set up. I must admit some of the options are a little daunting to get set up the way each person likes. Thanks in advance for your help.

05-04-2018, 03:15 PM	#11
whaleheader Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 221	Sorry, not trying to irritate you. I'm just trying to figure out whether I can almost use the game in real time while tethered to reality. If I create a Standard Game in OOTP 19, I am tethered to its MLB reality. If I create a Standard Game in OOTP 20, I am tethered to that version's MLB reality. Within those realities I can change teams, rearrange leagues, and redraft the players, which moves the game into more of a fictional setting. No matter how I rearrange things, though, I am still tethered to the player ratings in that version of MLB reality. All I'm looking to accomplish is binding those seasons together to a common reality of my league, not MLB. As for using the historical file...if I begin playing in 1975 can't I tether players to it by recalculating their stats each year using the historical database? With the proper settings I can play 1976 within the same game creating a new history for all the players of that era based on their real play in those seasons. I can't see how moving between 1975 and 1976 would be any different mechanically than moving between 2017 and 2018, provided that I'm willing to wait into the real 2018 season has been played and the historical file is regenerated with its data. I thank you again for responding and appreciate your patience. Last edited by whaleheader; 05-04-2018 at 03:25 PM.

05-04-2018, 05:59 PM	#13
Hemi425HP Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 202	I think what you're trying to do is possible by exporting, modifying, and re-importing the database. That is way outside of my area of expertise because it's not what I consider "fun." I like alternative realities and different progressions. The folks in the database tools section of the mods forums would be best equipped to show you the way. __________________

05-02-2018, 12:48 PM	#2
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,798	If you start with 2018 MLB rosters, only the current season is based on actual ZIPS projections. The game progresses from there using the development engine. There is no recalc. The rosters going into the offseason reflect the roster moves and transactions that were made in your game.

05-02-2018, 02:31 PM	#3
whaleheader Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 221	Right. The rosters (which are fictional) will change and evolve. What happens when I turn the season over at the end of the season? Do any player ratings change at that point? In 2019 when I upgrade to OOTP 20, how do the players evolve? Does the game recalculate with 2019 and 2018 ratings based on my settings or do 2019 setting overwrite the 2018 ratings? Thanks again.

05-03-2018, 04:12 PM	#5
whaleheader Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 221	Sorry, Standard/Fictional/Historical/Custom/backups/templates gets little confusing for a newcomer. OK, a little background. I'm coming from the Strat-O-Matic/Dynasty League Baseball/Diamond Mind Baseball model. I have a keeper league where we sign players and play one of these types of games. We've done it 28 out of the last 30 years. With these games, a new season "card set" comes out every season, with updated ratings and stats from the previous MLB season. We're tying to move to OOTP where we keep our players from season to season but get updated ratings (and amateur draft lists) each new season. Now whether these player ratings are modified projections based on ZiPS, or projections calculated by blending together projections and past season data doesn't really matter as long as the player's rating are updated in an historical context that connects our Fictional League with our combined reality that is MLB. Is there a way to accomplish this objective? I've spent 70 hours in the last two weeks inside the game engine (at least that's what Steam tells me) and I've spent about another 70 hours Googling the game, learning as much as I can about how things work. Thankfully many of the wonderful people on this board have tried to answer my many questions, including you. I am very lucky you've shared your time and knowledge. Hopefully, though, these extra words clarify my question a little better and provide enough information so that I can figure out whether the game engine can support our plan for creating our own little baseball universe. Thanks in advance for any clarity provided.

05-04-2018, 05:33 AM	#7
whaleheader Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 221	Just to make sure I'm being clear...my base season was created with Standard Game. From there I modified the league structure and moved players to their appropriate team in my league. I then converted their league service time to my league's service time. From there I set the Historical Settings to: 1) Automatically adjust league totals modifiers after each season, 2) Recalc player ratings based on real stats after each year (3-year base, double weight for current year stats), 3) Neutralized stats, 4) Selected recalc period only, and 5) 3-year period for fielding and pitcher stamina. I set the Historical Year to 2018. -------------------------------------------------- OK, so the recalc setting won't come into play at all? Players will only advance using the development engine? Does this mean I would have been better off creating an Historical Game based on 2017 and setting up my league? If that's true, what's the timeframe I should advance my league so the 2018 season stats will be available to progress with real stats into next season? If I base my league on 2017 historical, is there any way to get real amateur players for the 2018 season in league this year? Also, how can I get real amateurs in my draft pool every year going forward? Thanks again for the insight.

05-04-2018, 01:53 PM	#9
whaleheader Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 221	Actually I believe I'm starting to get it. I could create an historical league based on 2017 and include historical minor leaguers. I could then modify the teams in the league to reflect the teams and players in my old league. I would then have all the 2017 players and the league structure I am looking for. I could play this league in (real) 2018 stopping on the last World Series game day. I would then have to wait for the historical file to get updated to 2018 and updated the historical file for my game. Once that's done I could advance to 2018 and the players would be recalculated. Correct? Another option I would have is a little more work but I believe would be doable. I took the 2018 opening day file and modified it for my league structure and rosters. This file includes real amateurs for the draft. I play the season and roll over to 2019 when the season is complete. After Spring Training I stop the advancement of MY LEAGUE until OOTP 20 gets released. At this point I export all rosters. I also export the complete roster file for OOTP. I match up the players in MY LEAGUE and with the players in OOTP 20. I look for any players in OOTP 20 who don't have a player match. I create fictional players in MY LEAGUE and match them to the players without a match in OOTP20. I then update the player file in MY LEAGUE with the ratings from OOTP 20. I reimport MY LEAGUE roster back into my game. At that point I have OOTP 20 Opening Day ratings in MY LEAGUE. When the Amateur Pool is released I following essentially the same process I did with my player file. At that point I have OOTP 20 players in my league. Does this make sense now?

05-04-2018, 06:13 PM	#14
BirdWatcher Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 4,262	My sense here (and I apologize beforehand if I'm really misinterpreting everything and not being at all helpful), as someone who comes from a Strat-O-Matic background myself, is that while what you are looking for is perhaps possible with some serious gaming gymnastics, it might be a case of trying to get similar results with an animal very different than the one you are used to. Or in other words, it might be possible to teach your cat to do tricks your dog was earlier able to master, but it might be less frustrating to get another dog or learn to love your cat for its cat-like qualities instead?

05-04-2018, 07:22 PM	#15
whaleheader Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 221	Actually the baseball universe I'm trying to build is entirely different to the way people play games like Strat, DMB, and Dynasty. It also seems to be different from the way people are playing OOTP. I will try to explain. Essentially I'm trying to play in the present. When you play Strat, DMB, Dynasty and the like, you look back at a single season. You have perfect hindsight. If a player hit 50 homers in 2017 MLB, he'll be rated to hit 50 homers in the 2017 game version. (Of course, with the way things work in those games, he might very well hit 70 in the replay, which is something I've never liked.) This is somewhat similar to the way people play historical leagues in OOTP. You pick out a season, say 1945, and play into the future using the historical progression as a tether to real baseball. Things are the same but different. Nevertheless, people have an idea how players careers will turn out. Now, OOTP has another option. You can start with a real season and progress forward untethered to MLB. You proceed with no idea how things will play out. I can see the allure of such play. At some point in the future I might play in such a league. I'm not ready now, though, because I know the guys in my league, like those playing in OOTP historical leagues tied to MLB with autocalc, aren't ready to make the leap into totally fictitious players because they like the fantasy of being GM of real MLB players. So, I'd like to keep my league tethered to real players. Getting back to using the Strat-like model, another problem with those games is, you play the game in the season after the rated season. In 2018 you play the 2017 rated season. In Dynasty/keeper league this creates a problem. Teams who don't play well often trade what few good players they have in the middle of the season when they see them playing poorly in real life. They often trade those players for less than full value for players who are doing well in real life. This is particularly a problem with leagues who play late into the real MLB season. I'd like to have my current league season take place as close to real time as possible to minimize the perfect hindsight issue while keeping the game tethered to real life. At the same time, I'd like to keep the history of my league available. (I don't think I need to explain the last part.) OOTP's release of the current season rosters seem like a great way to accomplish what I'm trying to do. The ratings are tied to real life but have enough variance to make current play less predictable. When you tie in some in-season development and add the the ability to utilize minor leaguers you end up with a model that's a lot closer to the experience of real-life GMs (with players you actually can watch on TV). Additionally, again using the current game (2019 this year), you can have an amateur draft of real players in a similar timeline to real life. To top it all off, my league can use the excellent AI and tracking the game has to offer. To me, this would make my league as close to the real thing as possible.

05-04-2018, 07:30 PM	#16
whaleheader Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 221	After more research I'm sure this is doable. I have the technical skills for the DB stuff. The main issue is the timeline of turning the league over right after the World Series. This would make the scouting information in OOTP pretty much useless. We'd have to sign players without the assistance of our OOTP scouts and ratings, who will only come into play for in-season play. If the historical database was updated sometime in late November/early December I might accept that trade-off. From what I've been able to ascertain, it comes out when the new version comes out in March. If I'm going to wait that long, I may as well use the Opening Day rosters. Thanks again to the insights. I'm finding the games community is very helpful.