When Will New Position Ratings Show Up?

Juggernt · 02-21-2018, 11:37 AM

I have a minor league SS that I'm converting to CF. I've forced him into the role and changed his position. How long will it take for his defensive skills to show up? I've played him 120+ games at AA in the position and nothing has changed.

Brad K · 02-21-2018, 05:42 PM

First of all I am not playing 18. However on an older version I have never been able to get a player new position that wasn't closely related, like short to second or right to left.

I've tried force start in the minors, put a player in a new position in spring training, and even when injuries cleaned out my Outfield in the majors, put SS Craig Reynolds for most of the season without him ever developing a center field rating. He made something like 25 errors in 130 games.

TGH-Adfabre · 02-21-2018, 11:05 PM

It depends on his OF arm , error and range. He may not have the talent to ever be a professional CF. What are his ratings?

Brad K · 02-22-2018, 12:04 AM

Ummm... seems to me if he had good ratings for OF arm etc that he'd already have an overall outfield rating. According to the documentation you can teach people new positions.

Yet (I played these games on career development) I have never been able to get any kind of OF rating for Al Oliver who converted real life!!!

Juggernt · 02-22-2018, 09:59 AM

Any way to use Commissioner Mode to force this?

Rain King · 02-22-2018, 10:54 AM

If he has the skills it is a matter of getting enough experience. The tougher the position, the longer it takes to build enough experience. Positions like CF, SS take a long time unless the player has amazing skills. C can be nearly impossible to learn.

In general, it is very hard to teach positions to the "right" on the defensive spectrum from what a player already has and the game reflects this.

1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C

RchW · 02-22-2018, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggernt

Any way to use Commissioner Mode to force this?

Yes you can change those ratings in commissioner mode.

Brad K · 02-22-2018, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

If he has the skills it is a matter of getting enough experience. The tougher the position, the longer it takes to build enough experience. Positions like CF, SS take a long time unless the player has amazing skills. C can be nearly impossible to learn.

In general, it is very hard to teach positions to the "right" on the defensive spectrum from what a player already has and the game reflects this.

1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C

Yet despite catcher being to the right of everything else just try to teach a catcher to play any other position even first base.

Juggernt · 02-22-2018, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

Yes you can change those ratings in commissioner mode.

Thanks. I tried it with a random minor leaguer who had never played a position, and the change showed up. Even updating the experience of the player in question (with all those games under his belt) to 200 made no change in his profile.

Juggernt · 02-22-2018, 03:26 PM

Huh. Must have just needed to wait for the off-season update. After Jan 1 new ratings showed.

Brad K · 02-22-2018, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggernt

Huh. Must have just needed to wait for the off-season update. After Jan 1 new ratings showed.

You got the position ratings without editing?

Juggernt · 02-23-2018, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad K

You got the position ratings without editing?

No, post-edit. I didn't change his ratings, just bumped his experience up to 200 and that seemed to work.

Brad K · 02-23-2018, 06:38 PM

Is the following correct?

Although the documentation mentions only the defensive difficulty scale as a factor in learning new positions, players are unable to learn new positions not related to their current positions. This applies even if new position is to the left on the defensive difficulty scale.

There are two sets of related positions, infield and Outfield, plus catcher which is a standalone.

If the game is set to Career Development a player cannot learn an unrelated position even if he successfully did so real life.

Question

If game is set to recalc and he successfully learned a position he did not play real life, does he lose that rating when recalc runs?

If a game is set to recalc and real life a player switched positions will he remain effective at his original position if he is used that way in the game?

bwburke94 · 02-24-2018, 11:49 AM

My guess is that January 1 is the point the player was rescouted.

NoOne · 02-25-2018, 10:50 AM

just test in game for the minutiae.

add a defensive position, force a recalc. i'd assume it keeps what they've learned, but depends wholey on the mechanics of "recalc"

if they have the raw ability, they can learn the position no matter what. the raw ability stuff can change, but most of the times it's +1 or +2 at a time out of 200. TCR can be a different situation... you see a raw OF Range jump from 50/100 to 80/100 and it's not scouting correction, then you can assume TCR struck this person. (talent change randomness setting)

the related position stuff is *mostly true. some players have ability to OF and IF... in the past i've seen a catch that could play CF very well. (speed is not relevant to OF Range or IF Range, per manual/forums - if they have th range, they are "fast enough" no matter what)

i have not seen a catcher have the ability to do more ethan C/1b ... maybe 3b since. so, those chances have been reduced over time or i had some crazy luck a few years ago.

as long as they have the raw ability, they can learn it with playing time at that position gain experience. then, once at a particular threshold it will show up on the profile screen.

use editor to flesh out minimums... E.G. 3b requires 'some' amount of DP ability, but not much... however, if too low 3B will never show on the profile -- even with 200/200 experience.

a note about that example: just how important is Turning a DP to a 3b? they initiate them but rarely "turn one". i've used a 3b with very low dp, high range, high arm and he was fine. how many games will be influenced by that situation -- one in which the 3b must Turn a DP and be relative to win/loss result? 1 time in a season? 1/1000? 1/1000s+? meh, i can live with that in numerous contexts... mainly offensive ability being the force.

don't do that with ss/2b, obviously. turn dp is too large of a piece for them to ignore.

02-21-2018, 11:37 AM	#1
Juggernt Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 357	When Will New Position Ratings Show Up? I have a minor league SS that I'm converting to CF. I've forced him into the role and changed his position. How long will it take for his defensive skills to show up? I've played him 120+ games at AA in the position and nothing has changed.

02-21-2018, 11:05 PM	#3
TGH-Adfabre Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,599	It depends on his OF arm , error and range. He may not have the talent to ever be a professional CF. What are his ratings? __________________ You mock me, therefore I am My wife

02-23-2018, 06:38 PM	#13
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 5,421	Is the following correct? Although the documentation mentions only the defensive difficulty scale as a factor in learning new positions, players are unable to learn new positions not related to their current positions. This applies even if new position is to the left on the defensive difficulty scale. There are two sets of related positions, infield and Outfield, plus catcher which is a standalone. If the game is set to Career Development a player cannot learn an unrelated position even if he successfully did so real life. Question If game is set to recalc and he successfully learned a position he did not play real life, does he lose that rating when recalc runs? If a game is set to recalc and real life a player switched positions will he remain effective at his original position if he is used that way in the game? Last edited by Brad K; 02-23-2018 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Word change rated to related

02-25-2018, 10:50 AM	#15
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	just test in game for the minutiae. add a defensive position, force a recalc. i'd assume it keeps what they've learned, but depends wholey on the mechanics of "recalc" if they have the raw ability, they can learn the position no matter what. the raw ability stuff can change, but most of the times it's +1 or +2 at a time out of 200. TCR can be a different situation... you see a raw OF Range jump from 50/100 to 80/100 and it's not scouting correction, then you can assume TCR struck this person. (talent change randomness setting) the related position stuff is mostly true. some players have ability to OF and IF... in the past i've seen a catch that could play CF very well. (speed is not relevant to OF Range or IF Range, per manual/forums - if they have th range, they are "fast enough" no matter what) i have not seen a catcher have the ability to do more ethan C/1b ... maybe 3b since. so, those chances have been reduced over time or i had some crazy luck a few years ago. as long as they have the raw ability, they can learn it with playing time at that position gain experience. then, once at a particular threshold it will show up on the profile screen. use editor to flesh out minimums... E.G. 3b requires 'some' amount of DP ability, but not much... however, if too low 3B will never show on the profile -- even with 200/200 experience. a note about that example: just how important is Turning a DP to a 3b? they initiate them but rarely "turn one". i've used a 3b with very low dp, high range, high arm and he was fine. how many games will be influenced by that situation -- one in which the 3b must Turn a DP and be relative to win/loss result? 1 time in a season? 1/1000? 1/1000s+? meh, i can live with that in numerous contexts... mainly offensive ability being the force. don't do that with ss/2b, obviously. turn dp is too large of a piece for them to ignore. Last edited by NoOne; 02-25-2018 at 11:01 AM.*

02-21-2018, 05:42 PM	#2
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 5,421	First of all I am not playing 18. However on an older version I have never been able to get a player new position that wasn't closely related, like short to second or right to left. I've tried force start in the minors, put a player in a new position in spring training, and even when injuries cleaned out my Outfield in the majors, put SS Craig Reynolds for most of the season without him ever developing a center field rating. He made something like 25 errors in 130 games.

02-22-2018, 12:04 AM	#4
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 5,421	Ummm... seems to me if he had good ratings for OF arm etc that he'd already have an overall outfield rating. According to the documentation you can teach people new positions. Yet (I played these games on career development) I have never been able to get any kind of OF rating for Al Oliver who converted real life!!!

02-22-2018, 09:59 AM	#5
Juggernt Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 357	Any way to use Commissioner Mode to force this?

02-22-2018, 10:54 AM	#6
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,108	If he has the skills it is a matter of getting enough experience. The tougher the position, the longer it takes to build enough experience. Positions like CF, SS take a long time unless the player has amazing skills. C can be nearly impossible to learn. In general, it is very hard to teach positions to the "right" on the defensive spectrum from what a player already has and the game reflects this. 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C

02-22-2018, 03:26 PM	#10
Juggernt Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 357	Huh. Must have just needed to wait for the off-season update. After Jan 1 new ratings showed.

02-24-2018, 11:49 AM	#14
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,443	My guess is that January 1 is the point the player was rescouted.