NFL 2019 Thread

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by dkgo

Sounds like one of those half-joking comments that just didn't land. I'm sure we've all had that moment where we say something then afterwards realize it didn't sound as great as it did in our head lol

I hope the dude wasn't joking because that would make him a moron. I'd have to think he actually thought this possible. Maybe he did. Could all of the dark shades make it harder to see if the ball is being passed off or not? In my experience playing football that has never been the case, but maybe he thinks it does. I just don't see much wrong with the comment unless he was joking.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by dkgo

Sounds like one of those half-joking comments that just didn't land. I'm sure we've all had that moment where we say something then afterwards realize it didn't sound as great as it did in our head lol

Tim Ryan for sure tends to spout things off that don't quite land. Kind of his MO. I don't believe he is a racist, though.

[Rizon]

Not sure if I mentioned it on this forum, but I believe Lamar Jackson is literally QB Eagles from Tecmo Super Bowl.

[dkgo]

I mean, maybe Im dumb but I dont see how it can be racist by simply observing that his hands are black even if its a stupid comment

[Cobra Mgr]

I'll tell you what the problem was with it.

A racist hates other races and/or feels his is superior. Someone who is prejudiced has biases he uses to make judgments about situations & people. Some of those biases are subconscious and influences a person w/o them knowing it. All racists are prejudiced, but not all prejudices makes one racist. Whether we want to admit it or not, ALL OF US ARE PREJUDICED. It is a survival tactic all humans have. When you are lost at night in an unfamiliar neighborhood, but refuse to get out and ask directions, that's a smart move, but a prejudice. If a bartender serves a woman he's never seen before a drink w/o asking for ID, that's a prejudice. Neither example has hatred or feelings of superiority involved. They are biased conclusions based on surface information.

In sports, there have always been underlying biases when it comes to race. See Al Campanis or Jimmy the Greek. The sports media has been littered with it since sports became integrated. The black player is naturally gifted, the white one is scrappy. The black player made an athletic play; the white one made a competitive play. The suggestion is a minority athlete has "God-given" ability while the white one is working hard. As if a white person can't have success based on inborn physical ability and a black one can't have an admirable work ethic. It is not hatred. It is a bias. and most of the time subconscious.

This is where Ryan ran into trouble. Trying to explain something that didn't need explaining. But he wanted what he saw to mesh within his subconscious prejudices. Namely, Lamar Jackson is successful because of his DNA, not because he works on his craft.

It amazes me how the subconscious brain works. The best play action fake QB I've ever seen was Peyton Manning. And he was good at it because he worked at it. He drilled himself & his RB's to make sure the only thing different between his fakes & his handoffs was the actual exchange. Besides that, the defense couldn't tell what was coming. And Peyton deservedly got credit for it. He also got credit for his preparation, intelligence, and work ethic. But I never heard commentators give his DNA any glory. Despite the fact his dad was an all-American & NFL QB. They recognized you can't just roll out of the crib & start in the NFL.

There is no doubt Lamar Jackson has natural gifts any athlete would dream of having. But I have no doubt Jackson and the Ravens work and practice and drill in order to be successful like they have. Their wins shouldn't be treated like it took divine intervention. Give them their due. Don't give into any preconceived biases.

[dkgo]

Jason Garrett: 1 losing season in 9 years, possibly 2 in 10 after this

Ron Rivera: 6 losing seasons in 9 years

Cowboys fans: fire Garrett and hire a proven nfl coach like Rivera

[ukhotstove]

Brought back alot of memories last night's game specially when they showed photos of the game at Wembley, I was at the game and how the years have flown by. Been to many games since, mostly over here but some stateside but that first game watching Sweetness, The Fridge go up against America's team sits only behind a Packers game at Lambeau against Tampa Bay despite it being a pre season game.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by dkgo

Jason Garrett: 1 losing season in 9 years, possibly 2 in 10 after this

Ron Rivera: 6 losing seasons in 9 years

Cowboys fans: fire Garrett and hire a proven nfl coach like Rivera

Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't personally know any Cowboys fans that want anything to do with Rivera. However, there was a thread started at the CZ forums about it. I glanced at the first page and didn't see too many in favor. One even said hiring Rivera would be grounds to just stop being a fan.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Cards DB Josh Shaw suspended indefinitely for betting on the NFL.

New info on this. I was listening to the Philly sports radio station and they said the dude signed up for an account stating he was a professional football player. He bet a 3 team parlay including his own team to lose.

Well, he can kiss hall of fame goodbye .

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by dkgo

Jason Garrett: 1 losing season in 9 years, possibly 2 in 10 after this

I just want to say one more thing in regards to this. The team has quit on this coach. They're not just playing bad, they've checked out similar to 2010. The only time before that was late in the 1983 season.

I'm not the casual observer, I've been a Cowboys fan since the 70s. Any replacement would be better than keeping Garrett right now for the reason I mentioned above. If Garrett stays the Cowboys will most likely end the season 6-10, and yes, losing to the Redskins. Best case scenario 7-9.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

New info on this. I was listening to the Philly sports radio station and they said the dude signed up for an account stating he was a professional football player. He bet a 3 team parlay including his own team to lose.

Well, he can kiss hall of fame goodbye .

IDK about that. The Hall of Morons might make an opening for him.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I just want to say one more thing in regards to this. The team has quit on this coach. They're not just playing bad, they've checked out similar to 2010. The only time before that was late in the 1983 season.

I'm not the casual observer, I've been a Cowboys fan since the 70s. Any replacement would be better than keeping Garrett right now for the reason I mentioned above. If Garrett stays the Cowboys will most likely end the season 6-10, and yes, losing to the Redskins. Best case scenario 7-9.

I agree with you. But I'll also say, if you have a legit shot at the playoffs and you "quit", the coach ain't the only problem. Serious changes to the roster also needs to take place. That is a character issue.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I agree with you. But I'll also say, if you have a legit shot at the playoffs and you "quit", the coach ain't the only problem. Serious changes to the roster also needs to take place. That is a character issue.

Troy Aikman has been saying this for years. It's not just the coach.

My opinion is this. The coach is the only person on the team that has winning as a priority. That's his job, to win. Players get a paycheck no matter what. There is little to nothing motivating them to strive for the playoffs. It's not like years ago where players didn't get instantly wealthy and played because they loved the game. Now coaches have to motivate players that have already won to win.

Think about it, why do some players cry when they get drafted? Winning or football is not the reason.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Troy Aikman has been saying this for years. It's not just the coach.

My opinion is this. The coach is the only person on the team that has winning as a priority. That's his job, to win. Players get a paycheck no matter what. There is little to nothing motivating them to strive for the playoffs. It's not like years ago where players didn't get instantly wealthy and played because they loved the game. Now coaches have to motivate players that have already won to win.

Think about it, why do some players cry when they get drafted? Winning or football is not the reason.

I'm not a pro, so I can't be dogmatic about it. You may be right. But I don't see how you can play sports at this level and not be super competitive. No more than I can see someone reaching this level and not be a superior athlete. They are prerequisites, IMO. People don't come off assembly lines, so I know everyone will be built different. But to think there could be a significant percentage of a roster unmotivated to make good on a reasonable postseason chance is unfathomable to me. I was at a company retreat yesterday and wanted our group to win the Family Feud.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I'm not a pro, so I can't be dogmatic about it. You may be right. But I don't see how you can play sports at this level and not be super competitive. No more than I can see someone reaching this level and not be a superior athlete. They are prerequisites, IMO. People don't come off assembly lines, so I know everyone will be built different. But to think there could be a significant percentage of a roster unmotivated to make good on a reasonable postseason chance is unfathomable to me. I was at a company retreat yesterday and wanted our group to win the Family Feud.

Winning in general and what it takes to win at a high level can be two different things. We already know that players will go for the higher paycheck over the winning team. There are a few isolated cases, but for the most part, winning is not a top priority for players.

Winning at the NFL level takes a lot more than going out on to the field and giving it your all. There's game planning, film, practice, if you're not all in you may not do what it takes in the areas that allow you to give yourself the best chance to win.

Interesting note. I read a book by an X player turned referee. He played OL I think for the Eagles and Steelers back in the 70s. Not a big name, not a great player. But he was ref up until the 90s. I can't remember his name. He was ref in college and then the NFL. He said that only bowl games in college reach the level of intensity that a week 2 game between the Saints and 49ers do. So yeah, it takes a lot to win at the NFL level.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Winning in general and what it takes to win at a high level can be two different things. We already know that players will go for the higher paycheck over the winning team. There are a few isolated cases, but for the most part, winning is not a top priority for players.

Winning at the NFL level takes a lot more than going out on to the field and giving it your all. There's game planning, film, practice, if you're not all in you may not do what it takes in the areas that allow you to give yourself the best chance to win.

I don't dispute winning isn't a player's top priority all the time. It shouldn't be their top priority. But once the competition starts, the competitiveness should take over. You may not do all you can pre-game to win. But once you play, that is your focus. That's the part I can't get behind. You play to win the game. You may not practice to win the game. You may not choose the profession to win the game. But when you play, at that moment, you play to win the game. To go on the field and not have it as your main concern @ that moment is alien to me.

Maybe I'm just naive. But I saw co-workers get into a dispute over Family Feud yesterday and we weren't going to to get anything whether we won or lost. Didn't matter. They wanted to win. Fun and camaraderie went out the window. That is the common human mentality of a competitive world. Once the game starts, winning is the focus. If Dallas has that, then they have a serious character problem.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I don't dispute winning isn't a player's top priority all the time. It shouldn't be their top priority. But once the competition starts, the competitiveness should take over. You may not do all you can pre-game to win. But once you play, that is your focus. That's the part I can't get behind. You play to win the game. You may not practice to win the game. You may not choose the profession to win the game. But when you play, at that moment, you play to win the game. To go on the field and not have it as your main concern @ that moment is alien to me.

Maybe I'm just naive. But I saw co-workers get into a dispute over Family Feud yesterday and we weren't going to to get anything whether we won or lost. Didn't matter. They wanted to win. Fun and camaraderie went out the window. That is the common human mentality of a competitive world. Once the game starts, winning is the focus. If Dallas has that, then they have a serious character problem.

People that compete with nothing to gain just like to compete, you're right. Those that don't care, you'll never notice because they're not there. In the NFL that's their job. You'll notice if someone is lagging and is just there for the paycheck.

I can't speak for any other team except the Cowboys since I've watched them very closely over the years. It's happened before back in 2010. The team checked out. Once they made the coaching change mid season, a different team took the field and it was noticeable. From 1-7 to 5-3. And to some extent the last few games back in 1983. I don't know why, but the team checked out for the playoffs.

The Cowboys have been playing at a low intensity level all year, but the last two weeks have been something different. I apologize to any Bills or Bears fans, they play very motivated and good for them, but they're not very good IMO and they beat a team that doesn't seem to care.

If the Cowboys keep Garrett they will go 6-10. I realize this goes further than coaching, but I'll just close with a quote I like but don't know who coined. "Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard"

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Maybe I'm just naive. But I saw co-workers get into a dispute over Family Feud yesterday and we weren't going to to get anything whether we won or lost. Didn't matter. They wanted to win.

I wanted to say one thing regarding this because it's a good point but I think we can extend this.

How much do they want to win? When I was in my youth I played the four sports constantly. Throw tennis in as well. My desire to win and what I would do could only be matched, not surpassed. But how many people are like that?

I remember playing opponents that gave up or stopped giving their all before games were over. I remember this happening a lot. Especially in tennis. Even when they had leads and I would climb back. Maybe the heat was getting to them?

Even with some of my friends that were very competitive. I would have to sometimes give them incentive to win just to get the best out of them in whatever we played.

Moral of my story, just saying people have a competitive nature doesn't show how far someone is willing to go to win.

[monkeyman576]

Should I start Sony Michel of NE or Rashaad Penny of SEA at RB?

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I remember playing opponents that gave up or stopped giving their all before games were over. I remember this happening a lot. Especially in tennis. Even when they had leads and I would climb back. Maybe the heat was getting to them?

I can understand people giving less once they see the outcome is inevitable. I don't believe in the "winning is the only thing" philosophy on life. If you can't see the overall big picture, then you aren't balanced in life. What I don't get is the Cowboys, and others in the past, not giving their best @ kickoff when the outcome (like the postseason) is still in the balance.