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Old 10-16-2014, 02:12 PM   #41
tcblcommish
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Originally Posted by Max Boyer View Post
If you are supporting this game, like this post.

I'm still in - never left, despite what we know and what happened.

GO FHM GO
I know for me personally that I am only supporting this game because of OOTPs traack record with its baseball games and they have a huge potential. However, 8 months ago or something, we were told about a new match engine coming that would change the game. 8 months later and nothing as far as any kind of update, talks or anything other than "it's still being worked on"

It's hard not to walk away and I am and was one fo the biggest supporters and someone trying to help all along but I just don't know about it anymore. Such a shame
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Old 10-16-2014, 02:51 PM   #42
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I was incredibly excited for this game and bought the beta right away. Then I was terribly disappointed with the way the game was rolled out, but I decided to stick around and see if the developers could learn from their initial mistakes and produce a solid product. When they announced the final patch would include -- among other improvements -- a revised match engine, I thought my patience would pay off.

But now I'm close to abandoning FHM forever, and it makes me sad. I had high hopes for this game, but I've lost faith that the developers have the skills and/or resources to pull it off successfully. Version 1.0 was released on 3 September 2013 -- over a year ago. The latest patch was released on 28 May 2014 -- over four months ago. The new match engine that is supposed to be in the final patch was first mentioned on 6 January 2014 and details were posted on 30 January 2014 -- over eight months ago.

I understand that when dealing with a small development company there are likely to be challenges. I know Sebastian has struggled with some personal issues, and I truly sympathize. His personal well-being should absolutely come before any job or game. His troubles have undoubtedly delayed the final patch and that's O.K. As I said, these types of things can happen when dealing with a small company.

But forget the initial release. It's now been over four months since the last patch and over eight months since they first talked about the new match engine. And they're still not willing to give even a broad estimate of when the final patch will be released. I understand not giving a specific release date -- they don't want to make promises they may not be able to keep, and that's a good idea. But they promised us a new match engine over eight months ago, and there's still no sign that it's coming.

I bought the FHM beta nearly a year and a half ago, and I've stuck with it ever since on the hope they could get the issues worked out. I think they owe us at least an estimate of when the final patch will finally be released. If they can't do that, then I'm done with FHM and OOTP.


I think this is a fair post; however, we have seen what happens when an estimate of a release date is missed. A select few don't understand "estimated release" and that has ruined it for the rest of us. It's too bad too because I'm sure the devs want to tell the majority.


A lot of "issues" in the game itself are apart of growing pains for a new game. OOTP took years to build that foundation, it will be no different for FHM. If there was a new hockey sim game out there chances are they'd be struggling with the same thing. That's part of the struggles with starting a new franchise. The commitment from FHM to provide the engine that they promised in FHM14 means something to me even though they could easily just say forget it and completely move on to FHM15. It's too bad they cannot provide us more details on the update for FHM 14 at this time but they do care about their customers, their clients input, and are working away on it to get it in the hands of all us.
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:45 PM   #43
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I think this is a fair post; however, we have seen what happens when an estimate of a release date is missed. A select few don't understand "estimated release" and that has ruined it for the rest of us. It's too bad too because I'm sure the devs want to tell the majority.


A lot of "issues" in the game itself are apart of growing pains for a new game. OOTP took years to build that foundation, it will be no different for FHM. If there was a new hockey sim game out there chances are they'd be struggling with the same thing. That's part of the struggles with starting a new franchise. The commitment from FHM to provide the engine that they promised in FHM14 means something to me even though they could easily just say forget it and completely move on to FHM15. It's too bad they cannot provide us more details on the update for FHM 14 at this time but they do care about their customers, their clients input, and are working away on it to get it in the hands of all us.
Thank you for your response.

I disagree with their choice to not provide even a broad-based time frame for the final patch simply because some people don't understand "estimated release". Just because there will be a few inevitable trolls, it doesn't seem fair to keep the rest of us in the dark.

Jeff has posted twice since the beginning of September. Sebastian has posted three times (although I give him a pass due to his personal problems). I know you are serving as something of a spokesman for the developers, and that is a definite plus. But their almost total lack of presence doesn't inspire faith.

And while I truly believe you have faith in their commitment to releasing the new engine, I do not. To be brutally honest, they haven't given us any reason to believe their promises. The only reason I've hung around so long is due to the OOTP brand. Their track record of success with the baseball game earned them a level of trust. But that goodwill is gone now and FHM is seriously tarnishing the OOTP brand in my eyes.

It's been over eight months since they provided details on the match engine and it's time to produce. If the patch isn't ready, they should at least explain why and give some insight as to where it stands beyond "we're working on it -- trust us". If they can't give us that little bit, then I'm done with FHM and OOTP.
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:53 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by tcblcommish View Post
I know for me personally that I am only supporting this game because of OOTPs traack record with its baseball games and they have a huge potential. However, 8 months ago or something, we were told about a new match engine coming that would change the game. 8 months later and nothing as far as any kind of update, talks or anything other than "it's still being worked on"

It's hard not to walk away and I am and was one fo the biggest supporters and someone trying to help all along but I just don't know about it anymore. Such a shame
I'm not gonna lie, this is how I feel too.
But I know that this team will work it out for all of us and we will look back at all this and realized that it was worth the wait.

I can't stop thinking about the heatlh issue that Seb is having and how too much pressure ain't gonna help him or any of us at this stage.

This post is not meant to lecture anyone. I bought my version in February 2013 and I told about 10 people of my entourage to buy it as well and we all did. I had to deal with these guys too on the behalf of OOTP/FHM.

And let me add that every single one of them are seeing the potential of this game and the more we wait, the more stable things will (or should) be for us to play around when ready.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:11 PM   #45
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I think this is a fair post; however, we have seen what happens when an estimate of a release date is missed. A select few don't understand "estimated release" and that has ruined it for the rest of us. It's too bad too because I'm sure the devs want to tell the majority.
I dont think the problem is that people are upset with blown timelines. They are more upset with the lack of communication. Its a lot like what people saw with iOOTP, which in my opinion proved the need for communication.

I realize what a tough spot you and Brad are put in right now, kinda stuck in the middle, and I commend you for the job that you are doing. It aint easy.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:48 PM   #46
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I dont think the problem is that people are upset with blown timelines. They are more upset with the lack of communication. Its a lot like what people saw with iOOTP, which in my opinion proved the need for communication.

I realize what a tough spot you and Brad are put in right now, kinda stuck in the middle, and I commend you for the job that you are doing. It aint easy.
I have to agree that lack of communications is frustrating and a little unexpected from OOTP.

Someone should be commenting on "Sebastian's Update Thread" or a similar type thread on a monthly basis. Nothing entered since sept 4th?!

If there is slow progress due to strained resources or unexpected issues just say so, you don't have to explain in detail. If the delivery date can't be specified, or has changed to 'unknown', due to issues just say so. If no progress has been made for the month just say so.

It would be nice to hear someone from OOTP report the project is still alive. I believe it is but why not keep the update thread a little more fresh.

Of course this is just an opinion.

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Old 10-17-2014, 12:07 AM   #47
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Do you guys want a rushed product? I'd much rather they take a year to develop the patch correctly than rush it out too quickly, make visible errors, and receive even more backlash from customers. They've made mistakes in the past with FHM - and they don't want to repeat them again.

It took OOTP 15 years to get where it is. While technology has changed from the first version of OOTP to FHM 14, it's completely unrealistic to expect a product close to the level of OOTP 15 - which many of you did.

Is it disappointing that Sebastian and Jeff haven't posted any updates? Yes, it is. Francis posts almost every day about his football project. But I'm sure they are working diligently and hard to create the best product out there.

It's not a stretch at all to say that with some work, this could be OOTPD's best game in five or six years. It just needs time. And so do some of us, as members of the forum and as customers.
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Old 10-17-2014, 02:58 AM   #48
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Do you guys want a rushed product? I'd much rather they take a year to develop the patch correctly than rush it out too quickly, make visible errors, and receive even more backlash from customers. They've made mistakes in the past with FHM - and they don't want to repeat them again.

It took OOTP 15 years to get where it is. While technology has changed from the first version of OOTP to FHM 14, it's completely unrealistic to expect a product close to the level of OOTP 15 - which many of you did.

Is it disappointing that Sebastian and Jeff haven't posted any updates? Yes, it is. Francis posts almost every day about his football project. But I'm sure they are working diligently and hard to create the best product out there.

It's not a stretch at all to say that with some work, this could be OOTPD's best game in five or six years. It just needs time. And so do some of us, as members of the forum and as customers.
What's a year? What's two years. Heck, give 'em 15 years to get FHM up to speed. Don't want a rushed product. (BTW, I'll probably be dead in 15 years, but that's my problem, and no fault of OOTP.)

I can't play the game at all now since OOTP isn't really a Macintosh developer and doesn't seem to install developer versions of new operating system upgrades on their token Mac to make minor fixes that 99.9% of developers anticipate without a hiccup. Tells me how unprofessional this development team is. Of course, I'll wait however long it takes, because what choice do I have?
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:56 AM   #49
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Do you guys want a rushed product? I'd much rather they take a year to develop the patch correctly than rush it out too quickly, make visible errors, and receive even more backlash from customers. They've made mistakes in the past with FHM - and they don't want to repeat them again.

It took OOTP 15 years to get where it is. While technology has changed from the first version of OOTP to FHM 14, it's completely unrealistic to expect a product close to the level of OOTP 15 - which many of you did.

Is it disappointing that Sebastian and Jeff haven't posted any updates? Yes, it is. Francis posts almost every day about his football project. But I'm sure they are working diligently and hard to create the best product out there.

It's not a stretch at all to say that with some work, this could be OOTPD's best game in five or six years. It just needs time. And so do some of us, as members of the forum and as customers.
I don't think the problem is a desire for a rushed product. The reason that people ask about when the update is being release is because they just want some news about it.

An unsolicited post about the game from the development team would be nice, instead of what we have been getting for the last six months or so which is usually responses to the masses when the pitchforks and torches start to appear in the forums.

Again: Dave and Brad have their hands full and are doing an admirable job.. A little backing for them as well would be a great thing.
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Old 10-17-2014, 07:49 AM   #50
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I don't think the problem is a desire for a rushed product. The reason that people ask about when the update is being release is because they just want some news about it. .
Yes, the request for periodic updates is just a request by customers to maintain a connection with the company during product development. There is no intention to rush product. However, the product was announced and one reason for this is to generate interest.

During the development of the game 'world in flames' (matrixgames forum) the programmer maintained a thread where he gave monthly updates. The product took years to develop and at many times it's completion was doubted. However, as an interested customer the updates, though sometimes minimal, were very interesting.
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:21 AM   #51
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I dont think the problem is that people are upset with blown timelines. They are more upset with the lack of communication. Its a lot like what people saw with iOOTP, which in my opinion proved the need for communication.

I realize what a tough spot you and Brad are put in right now, kinda stuck in the middle, and I commend you for the job that you are doing. It aint easy.
I 100% agree with this and was going to post the same thing. We just want to be somewhat informed, and the Brad and Dave "They are still working on it" is understandable but becoming very tiresome. I think we'd like to hear from someone else other than the poor guys who have been tasked with damage control.
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:25 AM   #52
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Some sort of clear statement, without a release date, from someone at OOTP other than Dave or Brad is all people want. The 'they are still working on it' line is getting very tired and should be retired from all businesses due to the amount of times it has been used here :-) We don't want a rushed game, we have waited a long time so far, all we would like is a few much needed answers.
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Old 10-17-2014, 11:38 AM   #53
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They don't seem too understand that we don't want too waste hours of time starting new leagues and having to scrap them out because the new patch has arrived.
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:21 PM   #54
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I think now that the 2014/2015 season is underway it would make much more sense to cancel the patch and include the fixes/new features in FHM2015 and make sure that 2015 is more robust. To me that seems more reasonable and if it delays things a few months then so be it. Nobody wants a rushed/incomplete or bug ridden release we just want the brilliant game that we know OOTP are capable of producing.Just let us know what the plan is.

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Old 10-17-2014, 03:27 PM   #55
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As an additional comment I take my hat off to and commend Dave, Gareth and Brad for firefighting and attempting to keep up some sort of communication with the community. I just think it shouldn't have always been left to you guys to do it.
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:38 PM   #56
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I think now that the 2014/2015 season is underway it would make much more sense to cancel the patch and include the fixes/new features in FHM2015 and make sure that 2015 is more robust. To me that seems more reasonable and if it delays things a few months then so be it. Nobody wants a rushed/incomplete or bug ridden release we just want the brilliant game that we know OOTP are capable of producing.Just let us know what the plan is.
I strongly disagree with this. After the fiasco of the initial version, if they were to renege on the promised patch I would never consider paying for a new version -- or any other OOTP product.
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Old 10-17-2014, 03:47 PM   #57
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I think now that the 2014/2015 season is underway it would make much more sense to cancel the patch and include the fixes/new features in FHM2015 and make sure that 2015 is more robust. To me that seems more reasonable and if it delays things a few months then so be it. Nobody wants a rushed/incomplete or bug ridden release we just want the brilliant game that we know OOTP are capable of producing.Just let us know what the plan is.
Again, the iOOTP parallel...
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:06 PM   #58
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I think now that the 2014/2015 season is underway it would make much more sense to cancel the patch and include the fixes/new features in FHM2015 and make sure that 2015 is more robust. To me that seems more reasonable and if it delays things a few months then so be it. Nobody wants a rushed/incomplete or bug ridden release we just want the brilliant game that we know OOTP are capable of producing.Just let us know what the plan is.
From what I understand, the new features/fixes are already going to be in FHM2015.
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Old 10-17-2014, 07:45 PM   #59
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I think now that the 2014/2015 season is underway it would make much more sense to cancel the patch and include the fixes/new features in FHM2015 and make sure that 2015 is more robust. To me that seems more reasonable and if it delays things a few months then so be it. Nobody wants a rushed/incomplete or bug ridden release we just want the brilliant game that we know OOTP are capable of producing.Just let us know what the plan is.
The final update for 2014 is going forward because all of us who paid for that version of the game are entitled to a finalised product - Which I think is the right thing to do. They could have just said 'yeah we rushed 14, thanks for the money, oh here's 15! thanks again for buying that too'
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Old 10-17-2014, 07:56 PM   #60
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Thank you for your response.

I disagree with their choice to not provide even a broad-based time frame for the final patch simply because some people don't understand "estimated release". Just because there will be a few inevitable trolls, it doesn't seem fair to keep the rest of us in the dark.

Jeff has posted twice since the beginning of September. Sebastian has posted three times (although I give him a pass due to his personal problems). I know you are serving as something of a spokesman for the developers, and that is a definite plus. But their almost total lack of presence doesn't inspire faith.

And while I truly believe you have faith in their commitment to releasing the new engine, I do not. To be brutally honest, they haven't given us any reason to believe their promises. The only reason I've hung around so long is due to the OOTP brand. Their track record of success with the baseball game earned them a level of trust. But that goodwill is gone now and FHM is seriously tarnishing the OOTP brand in my eyes.

It's been over eight months since they provided details on the match engine and it's time to produce. If the patch isn't ready, they should at least explain why and give some insight as to where it stands beyond "we're working on it -- trust us". If they can't give us that little bit, then I'm done with FHM and OOTP.

People really really really need to realize that there are like 3 people working on this game. Three. When something f***s up one of those three's life it's going to be a huge hit to the progress of the game. Because it's such a small team, any estimated release time or promised features are going to vary wildly depending on many factors. Now, they've already been burned several times on this in the past by promising a deadline or features. That wasn't smart, but they've apologized for it. It seems they've recognized their mistakes and are now unwilling to give any details on development besides a reassuring "we're still working on it". And that's exactly what they should be doing.

They've always been very good about giving refunds to those dissatisfied with the game. They're not trying to scam anyone. So just give them a break and let them work on the damn patch/game. It will be done when it's done. Find something to do in the meantime.
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