FHM Patch 1.5.20 Now Available

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Originally Posted by Germaniac

I think the FHM development team should take the frustration of their paying customers more seriously.

We've had 6 months of beta testing, then the game was released in early September ... and now, 4 months later the game still is not close to where it should be.

So if your customers are frustrated - you should at least try to understand it, we have every right to be disappointed.

As I said, the game is not close to where it should be - just a small example: Online play was promised for early October - I think it's save to assume it won't be in FHM14 at all.

Only that he is no customer of FHM. And he asked a question, I wrote a answer and he then not only did not read my answer but also changed his original question. It makes no sense to discuss something like that.

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Originally Posted by Bleb

I never spoke about stealing a game. But when you charge 40 ****ing bucks for a BETA, a BETA which isn't a complete game, then I personally would try it out before spending money on a half-arsed game. You don't pay for a demo either, do you? Bugs/issues addressed many months ago, still hasnt been fixed etc etc. Give me ONE good reason why I should spend 40 bucks on a BETA?

And the game is still ****fulled with bugs and issues, so this game is a waste of money, no matter how cheap/expensive it is.

Please let me quote myself and I will add "the game is still beta" (it isn't) to the list.

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

Please don't be mad with me but in the future I will not answer to questions regarding "the game sucks" (everyone has his own opinion), "the game is unplayable" (not true), "the game is boring" (yes, in some ways that is true, we are aware of it), "EHM is a million times better then FHM" (please play EHM, it is a great game), "you wanted to much for version 1" (we already admitted it and learned our lesson), "a new game should not be less then EHM 2007 and/or OOTP 14" (not realistic) and other comments like that.

The reason is simple: whatever I write, I will not satisfy some people. To be very clear, I respect everyone to have his opinion, I just feel that the time can be used better: to make the game better day by day, patch by patch and version by version.

[Penfold75]

I have at times been very critical of the FHM Dev team on the basis of I didn't think the game was where I thought it should be at this stage and the poor communication.

Communication is much improved in the last couple of weeks and we now have updates on what is being worked on by the team. From that they are certainly working hard to improve one of the areas of the game that really did need a bit of work and as he said they are still working on the bugs etc. They seem to be now focused on fixing up the core of the game and have admitted and apologised on many occasions for being a bit too ambitious at the start. So it is time to let that slide.

What I will say is that anyone that is still saying the game is unplayable has either never played the game or hasn't attempted to play it very long.

For all its faults and need of a few tweaks and fixes the game is playable and many of the users of the forum enjoy playing it. I find that in it's current state the game can be boring and a bit frustrating but it is in no way unplayable.

So for those guys coming on the board and reading a few of the terrible posts that say the game is unplayable and think it is cool to join the chorus of that quite outdated and inaccurate sentiment I'm sure there is a forum about OOTP 14 (which you probably play) or about the Disney Channel somewhere.

[AlpineSK]

I think ultimately his point is there was a $40 price tag put on this game with promises of features. Not only were those features (like online play) basically eliminated from the game, but its not polished as well.

Originally Posted by Duranium

As if 'online play' is a pressing need at polishing the initial version of the game

[AlpineSK]

Sorry, Seb.. the game is still in BETA. You can't give us a version of the game that is stable enough that we can confidently play past the next patch with existing games, and "play testers" (read: customers) are still being expected to trouble shoot and report a number of issues. Yes, I understand that would happen normally, but it should not happen at the volume at which it happens now.

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

Please let me quote myself and I will add "the game is still beta" (it isn't) to the list.

[AlpineSK]

For some people though "Boring" and "Frustrating" equals unplayable. I for one am one of those people. It's a game. It is something I would like to spend my time relaxing with and enjoying, not banging my head on the desk and promising myself that it will be better some day...

Originally Posted by Penfold75

I have at times been very critical of the FHM Dev team on the basis of I didn't think the game was where I thought it should be at this stage and the poor communication.

Communication is much improved in the last couple of weeks and we now have updates on what is being worked on by the team. From that they are certainly working hard to improve one of the areas of the game that really did need a bit of work and as he said they are still working on the bugs etc. They seem to be now focused on fixing up the core of the game and have admitted and apologised on many occasions for being a bit too ambitious at the start. So it is time to let that slide.

What I will say is that anyone that is still saying the game is unplayable has either never played the game or hasn't attempted to play it very long.

For all its faults and need of a few tweaks and fixes the game is playable and many of the users of the forum enjoy playing it. I find that in it's current state the game can be boring and a bit frustrating but it is in no way unplayable.

So for those guys coming on the board and reading a few of the terrible posts that say the game is unplayable and think it is cool to join the chorus of that quite outdated and inaccurate sentiment I'm sure there is a forum about OOTP 14 (which you probably play) or about the Disney Channel somewhere.

[Penfold75]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

I think ultimately his point is there was a $40 price tag put on this game with promises of features. Not only were those features (like online play) basically eliminated from the game, but its not polished as well.

It is a fair enough point. I think OOTP need to look at how they advertise the game on their page and revisit the 'claims' 'promises' they make.

They have said that they tried to do too much too soon. People are going to have to accept that and get over it. These things will probably be in future versions. We need to find ways of moving on with this community. If it is just going to be people beating to death the same points over and over then we might as well just close the forum.

Six Points I want to Make
A) The game is not unplayable

B) If you don't want to pay $40 then don't

C) If you paid and hate the game so much ask for a refund and play EHM or OOTP 14

D) If you want to post the same old stuff about missing features and the game being unplayable then think of a better way of spending a few minutes. We have heard and read it all before.

E) If you have anything constructive to say or a bug/tweak to report then please do and assist the development process

F) Lock this thread as it is descending into the usual rubbish.

Matt

[geckon]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

Sorry, Seb.. the game is still in BETA. You can't give us a version of the game that is stable enough that we can confidently play past the next patch with existing games, and "play testers" (read: customers) are still being expected to trouble shoot and report a number of issues. Yes, I understand that would happen normally, but it should not happen at the volume at which it happens now.

The game is NOT in BETA. "Beta" is a name/term. A piece of software can be released as Pre-alpha, Alpha, Beta, Release Candidate, Final version, etc. It's up to the developers how they decide to call it. There was Beta version of FHM, but that phase has ended no matter what you think about it.

You can tell that FHM is unstable (if you think so) or lacking certain features or that the features in the game aren't made well (again, if you think so). But sorry, you simply can't call it Beta (and be right at the same time).

[GMO123]

Perhaps there should be a separate thread or forum for those who post continuous negative comments about FHM.

Perhaps it could be called something like 'I hate FHM because...'.

Anyone who posts a non-constructive negative comment about the same problems in another forum or thread would have their comment moved to the 'I hate FHM because...' section.

Anyone who wants to read the same negative comments posted over and over again could go to that forum/thread while the rest of us who want to move forward wouldn't have to read those comments and we could then concentrate on reading the more constructive (negative and positive) comments.

[Orioles1966]

Originally Posted by GMO123

Perhaps there should be a separate thread or forum for those who post continuous negative comments about FHM.

Perhaps it could be called something like 'I hate FHM because...'.

Anyone who posts a non-constructive negative comment about the same problems in another forum or thread would have their comment moved to the 'I hate FHM because...' section.

Anyone who wants to read the same negative comments posted over and over again could go to that forum/thread while the rest of us who want to move forward wouldn't have to read those comments and we could then concentrate on reading the more constructive (negative and positive) comments.

I hate this idea.

[Redeemed143]

Originally Posted by GMO123

Perhaps there should be a separate thread or forum for those who post continuous negative comments about FHM.

Perhaps it could be called something like 'I hate FHM because...'.

Anyone who posts a non-constructive negative comment about the same problems in another forum or thread would have their comment moved to the 'I hate FHM because...' section.

Anyone who wants to read the same negative comments posted over and over again could go to that forum/thread while the rest of us who want to move forward wouldn't have to read those comments and we could then concentrate on reading the more constructive (negative and positive) comments.

maybe it can be in the same folder with the topic... "thanks for the next the new patch that came after 1.5.20"

[traveler99]

Originally Posted by GMO123

Perhaps there should be a separate thread or forum for those who post continuous negative comments about FHM.

Perhaps it could be called something like 'I hate FHM because...'.

Anyone who posts a non-constructive negative comment about the same problems in another forum or thread would have their comment moved to the 'I hate FHM because...' section.

Anyone who wants to read the same negative comments posted over and over again could go to that forum/thread while the rest of us who want to move forward wouldn't have to read those comments and we could then concentrate on reading the more constructive (negative and positive) comments.

Oh, you mean like put the Black people on the back of the bus so they be quiet or other racist crap, keep the noise down so we only hear happy thoughts (put fingers in ears... BLAA BLAA BLAA i can hear only what i want to hear) is this game so bad that you really have to start doing this ****?? and for the playable thing still, if it runs and turns on you mean its all good and well? you cannot even freaking sign your players or hire staff for the team...and indeed like i have hinted in the past i think OOTP should seriously check their advertising with the crap they write in there is so MISLEADING considering the state of the game were its at after 4 and half months from the release...

[traveler99]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

Please let me quote myself and I will add "the game is still beta" (it isn't) to the list.

If you really think this is not in Beta, tell me in your own words, what state the game is at exactly? with many functions missing and not working and almost 5 months after release...so what is the state of the game exactly? (please think carefully how you reply it as i will quote you if anyone ask from me about this )

[Max Boyer]

How many of you bought the game for online play?
I run 2 ootp leagues and I plan on running an FHM one as soon as possible, no matter if they are frustrating bugs. (I know that before we see the online version of it, they will fix the core.)

My only concern is that we are about 15 guys who bought the game sometimes last year (I bought mine when it was announced has a pre-order) and I'm afraid to annouce them "Hey guys, we need to buy FHM15 even if we never had the chance to test it out.". ** Online league. We do not play single player.

My point is, why not run with this version of FHM an extra year, to give them time to fix as many bugs as possible, and also, to maybe - just maybe - get some of us to make another donation to support the product?

Am I the only one who thinks like that?

PS: I'm not bashing the designers/makers. I've been very very supportive since day-1. Of course, I've been disappointed like every time I see the Canadiens losing against the Bruins or the Leafs.

[jerem77]

Originally Posted by traveler99

Oh, you mean like put the Black people on the back of the bus so they be quiet or other racist crap, keep the noise down so we only hear happy thoughts (put fingers in ears... BLAA BLAA BLAA i can hear only what i want to hear) is this game so bad that you really have to start doing this ****?? and for the playable thing still, if it runs and turns on you mean its all good and well? you cannot even freaking sign your players or hire staff for the team...and indeed like i have hinted in the past i think OOTP should seriously check their advertising with the crap they write in there is so MISLEADING considering the state of the game were its at after 4 and half months from the release...

You just compared a freaking game to segregation. Just think about that one for a while...

I've been playing these games for years. Pretty sure I purchased OOTp pre-SI, and most certainly during and post-SI. (not to mention FOF, TEW, EHM, some basketball games and several online management games) Yeah I'm a little disappointed with where FHM is at, but invoking segregation, really? especially since you've probably never even experienced real life let alone THAT.

[StrikeFour]

Originally Posted by traveler99

Oh, you mean like put the Black people on the back of the bus so they be quiet or other racist crap, keep the noise down so we only hear happy thoughts (put fingers in ears... BLAA BLAA BLAA i can hear only what i want to hear) is this game so bad that you really have to start doing this ****?? and for the playable thing still, if it runs and turns on you mean its all good and well? you cannot even freaking sign your players or hire staff for the team...and indeed like i have hinted in the past i think OOTP should seriously check their advertising with the crap they write in there is so MISLEADING considering the state of the game were its at after 4 and half months from the release...

Let me ask you something: what is the point to all this? How about posting something constructive like what you'd like to see done rather than flaming on the forum. It's childish and annoying. You're not adding anything new that's not already been said. You wanna' vent? See a psychiatrist.

[Oren Djoos]

Originally Posted by Max Boyer

How many of you bought the game for online play?

I bought the game in part because there was a promise to develop online play, though I viewed it as a long term thing. I don't think it would matter if the game had online support as-is because there are too many other things that need to be fixed first.

Having said that, if it had been both in good working state and with online league support - even just through manually loading some GM instruction files and without any html export features - I would have certainly tried to convine more people who were on the fence about buying the game to join in. As it is, I can't possibly recommend anyone buy the game, and I'll be very skeptical of any promises made for the next FHM game, if there is one.

[BearishRiggs]

Here's the way I see it: I want to love this game. I really, really do. I've been waiting for a good reason to love it since I bought it last year. I'm sure we all feel this way.

The problem is you guys, the development team, bit off way more than you could chew. You started coming up with all these ideas, the extra leagues, the historical mode, while the core concepts needed to make the game playable were at best in their infancy, and at their worst, totally broken. The trading system and AI, negotiating contracts, stat-tracking, the actual simulation gameplay...absolutely none of this is good enough. And that's just depressing. These are the most crucial elements of the game, in my opinion, and they just don't work. This game isn't going to be salvageable, and future versions are going to run into the same problems, until you make the sacrifice of cutting out the extra features (cool as they may be) and dedicate all the time to making the actual GAME itself better. You got caught up in your ambition and failed to deliver on the core mechanics. While wanting to give consumers the most bang for their buck, the most content possible, is admirable...we're all facing the consequences of paying for a hockey sim that doesn't function properly in nearly every aspect that isn't superficial.

I'm sure you guys are aware of this. The fact of the matter is, I haven't touched this game in months, and I know I'm not alone. That's truly a shame.

[Penfold75]

Originally Posted by BearishRiggs

Here's the way I see it: I want to love this game. I really, really do. I've been waiting for a good reason to love it since I bought it last year. I'm sure we all feel this way.

The problem is you guys, the development team, bit off way more than you could chew. You started coming up with all these ideas, the extra leagues, the historical mode, while the core concepts needed to make the game playable were at best in their infancy, and at their worst, totally broken. The trading system and AI, negotiating contracts, stat-tracking, the actual simulation gameplay...absolutely none of this is good enough. And that's just depressing. These are the most crucial elements of the game, in my opinion, and they just don't work. This game isn't going to be salvageable, and future versions are going to run into the same problems, until you make the sacrifice of cutting out the extra features (cool as they may be) and dedicate all the time to making the actual GAME itself better. You got caught up in your ambition and failed to deliver on the core mechanics. While wanting to give consumers the most bang for their buck, the most content possible, is admirable...we're all facing the consequences of paying for a hockey sim that doesn't function properly in nearly every aspect that isn't superficial.

I'm sure you guys are aware of this. The fact of the matter is, I haven't touched this game in months, and I know I'm not alone. That's truly a shame.

Guess you haven't read much on the forum for a while if ever either considering you joined this month. You aren't pointing out anything new all this has been covered and the development team have pretty much acknowledged and apologised for the points you have made over and over.

Is this is a trend or has anyone else noticed the new member first time post regurgitating the same old rubbish thing

[StrikeFour]

I would like to say 'knowledge is power' but I don't think that applies here.