It has all gone quiet...What Next?

[Penfold75]

Game has been released.....Great!!
Patch has been released.....Great!!

Played a few seasons, built my team, rebuilt my team, won my division a few times....bit bored now.

It would be great to get an update on what is being worked on? what is being fixed in the next patch? are greyed out options in commissioner mode going to be implemented in the game at some point? Thoughts on plans for future patches?

This sort of feedback pretty much will determine if I will continue to play version one or wait until FHM 2015 to play again.

This isn't an invitation for 'Get a Refund if you hate the game' posts more an update from JeffR, BradC or the development team.

Cheers
Penfold

[Alessandro]

I can ensure you that work is being done behind the courtains.

[Penfold75]

I figured that. Would be nice to know what work??

[traveler99]

Originally Posted by Penfold75

I figured that. Would be nice to know what work??

yeah, would be nice to know some updates what they are working on, what to expect and about when next update should come?

[Orioles1966]

I would like too see a checklist for what else is planned for version #1. A lot of people would like too see the editor be open for everything(expansion,moving teams,etc).

[Max Boyer]

I have a feeling that something big is going on.

[Penfold75]

that might be Santa Claus getting ready for Christmas

[Max Boyer]

You forgot 2 things before X-Mas:
- Pennant Race / World Series
- Halloween (wich means lots of candies & women in sexy super hero costumes)

[Crombeen]

I think they just took a few days off because they've worked very hard the last few weeks.

They canceled a weekend trip just to work on the first path. So it's pretty normal that the developers take a few days off when they release a patch, just to see how everything works out and let all the feedback soak in before getting back in the racing -gear to work on the next path.

[Oren Djoos]

Originally Posted by Crombeen

I think they just took a few days off because they've worked very hard the last few weeks.

They canceled a weekend trip just to work on the first path. So it's pretty normal that the developers take a few days off when they release a patch, just to see how everything works out and let all the feedback soak in before getting back in the racing -gear to work on the next path.

It's also normal for a game to be released mostly complete, not half-done. There are plenty of bugs left to fix from the beta, never mind post-release reports.

I haven't asked for a refund yet, but at the same time, this game isn't fun enough to play yet. I hope there's serious working going into the game engine/AI so at least the single player game is playable a month from now. I don't have high hopes for the multiplayer/online league play that was supposed to be possible in the first major content patch but there's nothing to do but wait and see at this point.

[thepete]

Originally Posted by Oren Djoos

It's also normal for a game to be released mostly complete, not half-done. There are plenty of bugs left to fix from the beta, never mind post-release reports.

I haven't asked for a refund yet, but at the same time, this game isn't fun enough to play yet. I hope there's serious working going into the game engine/AI so at least the single player game is playable a month from now. I don't have high hopes for the multiplayer/online league play that was supposed to be possible in the first major content patch but there's nothing to do but wait and see at this point.

There's truth in this. There's a difference between bugs (every game them in 1.0) and not having implemented promised features. I'd agree that the game isn't really 'fun' at the moment, there's too much frustration and everything from coaching to scouting, free agency, playing games, menus etc are annoying to a certain degree.

[Penfold75]

It is a hockey game done by baseball people. Some of the features missed are 'hockey' features. Some of the bugs that have been 'fixed' I think only occurred due to 'baseball' rather than 'hockey' knowledge.

I got a PM from a guy who offered some 'hockey' input and he said it was pretty much ignored.

** This is an opinion expressed by the poster. Under Freedom of Speech he is allowed to voice this without being told to 'Get A Refund' **

[Doctamike]

Originally Posted by Penfold75

It is a hockey game done by baseball people. Some of the features missed are 'hockey' features. Some of the bugs that have been 'fixed' I think only occurred due to 'baseball' rather than 'hockey' knowledge.

I got a PM from a guy who offered some 'hockey' input and he said it was pretty much ignored.

** This is an opinion expressed by the poster. Under Freedom of Speech he is allowed to voice this without being told to 'Get A Refund' **

The trade proposal bug is sport agnostic. I've posted the bug twice in the bug report thread and have heard nothing from the developers. It's completely game breaking and should have been fixed (or at the very least, ACKNOWLEDGED) a week ago.


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[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Penfold75

It is a hockey game done by baseball people. Some of the features missed are 'hockey' features. Some of the bugs that have been 'fixed' I think only occurred due to 'baseball' rather than 'hockey' knowledge.

I got a PM from a guy who offered some 'hockey' input and he said it was pretty much ignored.

** This is an opinion expressed by the poster. Under Freedom of Speech he is allowed to voice this without being told to 'Get A Refund' **

Not going to tell you to "get a refund". In fact the way things are being handled here is very, very good, kudos to you.

Just wanted to comment because I'm not sure the baseball people vs. hockey people assessment is entirely accurate.

The baseball people at OOTP are Markus and Andreas who are the bosses, but aren't directly involved in working on FHM.

Of the FHM crew Jeff is definitely a "hockey person" he was on the EHM team, and so far as I know has never worked on OOTP at all.

Sebastien is a professional programmer more than a "baseball person". He's worked on IOOTP, but so far as I know, not on the "real" OOTP.

Malte I'm less sure about, but he has never posted regarding OOTP, that I've seen, not even on the beta forums, and only showed up on the team at the same time FHM started.

So I really don't think that this is a case of "baseball people" vs "hockey people" at all. Just a case of a small team having to create a big game.

As for the advice thing, would you really want a dev team to immediately implement any and all advice they get from everyone who bothers to send them a pm or email, "hockey" advice or not?

Surely we can agree that a game that was created by implementing all suggestions, even if they're good ones, would be a complete and total disaster. They have to pick and choose and prioritize. So I wouldn't read too much into whether any specific persons advice was taken immediately or not.

From my own experience, there are a great deal of features and ideas that I and other valued members of the OOTP and FHM beta teams have suggested that haven't yet been implemented and may never be. They're good ideas, but perhaps too hard to code or just don't fit in with the teams vision for the game.

But there are also many ideas we've brought up that have been implemented. In fact that's one of the reasons I love OOTP Developments, the team is very, very good about implementing and handling suggestions and feedback from their community.

I fully expect the FHM team to be the same, once they get over the initial hurdles of getting the game to be stable and reliable.

Just my two cents worth.

Anyway, please keep up the good work of being in the group of folks that're pushing for a better game, but doing so reasonably and intelligently. That sort of effort on your part is much appreciated by me and no doubt others too.

[Penfold75]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Not going to tell you to "get a refund". In fact the way things are being handled here is very, very good, kudos to you.

Just wanted to comment because I'm not sure the baseball people vs. hockey people assessment is entirely accurate.

The baseball people at OOTP are Markus and Andreas who are the bosses, but aren't directly involved in working on FHM.

Of the FHM crew Jeff is definitely a "hockey person" he was on the EHM team, and so far as I know has never worked on OOTP at all.

Sebastien is a professional programmer more than a "baseball person". He's worked on IOOTP, but so far as I know, not on the "real" OOTP.

Malte I'm less sure about, but he has never posted regarding OOTP, that I've seen, not even on the beta forums, and only showed up on the team at the same time FHM started.

So I really don't think that this is a case of "baseball people" vs "hockey people" at all. Just a case of a small team having to create a big game.

As for the advice thing, would you really want a dev team to immediately implement any and all advice they get from everyone who bothers to send them a pm or email, "hockey" advice or not?

Surely we can agree that a game that was created by implementing all suggestions, even if they're good ones, would be a complete and total disaster. They have to pick and choose and prioritize. So I wouldn't read too much into whether any specific persons advice was taken immediately or not.

From my own experience, there are a great deal of features and ideas that I and other valued members of the OOTP and FHM beta teams have suggested that haven't yet been implemented and may never be. They're good ideas, but perhaps too hard to code or just don't fit in with the teams vision for the game.

But there are also many ideas we've brought up that have been implemented. In fact that's one of the reasons I love OOTP Developments, the team is very, very good about implementing and handling suggestions and feedback from their community.

I fully expect the FHM team to be the same, once they get over the initial hurdles of getting the game to be stable and reliable.

Just my two cents worth.

Anyway, please keep up the good work of being in the group of folks that're pushing for a better game, but doing so reasonably and intelligently. That sort of effort on your part is much appreciated by me and no doubt others too.

I agree with many of the points you make Lukas. I appreciate it is a small development team and there must have been loads of suggestions of what to include. In my work I am often swamped with ideas for functions in the systems I design and create for my users. If I implemented them all it would be a disaster and a very laborious process. However, I look at what my brief is and I sort out what is needed in the application I develop. There are some basic things I would expect in a hockey game that have been missed in the development. The fact that OOTP have mastered a lot of the transaction type elements of a management game in OOTP baseball meant I didn't expect errors in the e.g Free Agent resigning in the Hockey Game.

I have read back a lot of the posts in the forum and very early on the fact that league structures would be fully editable was mentioned as a function that would be available and sadly in the release the option is greyed out. I hope this is fixed in a patch.

Looking back at early screenshots from December the game still looks the same and plays very similarly, with many of the same issues, as some of the beta versions that I played. I can't see at times where the progress has been made and that I find frustrating.

I think the release could have been delayed. Sometimes it's a difficult decision you have to make and yes users are disappointed but they appreciate the final working version more when it is delivered. The users here accepted a delay of a number of months, think it was 9 with the promise that the game would benefit from this.

The game is playable and I won't join the its unplayable brigade. For me it lacks the depth that a basic Hockey Management game should have. I have played Football Manager for 30 seasons with Ayr United (a small club) and 30 seasons with my expansion team the San Jose Stars in Draft Day Pro Sports Basketball 3, so I do stick with games. After 5 seasons I was done with FHM and I now look at the icon on my desktop and never feel like clicking it again unless there is a major improvement from the patches.

This is just how I feel and I don't expect all to agree.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Penfold75

I agree with many of the points you make Lukas....This is just how I feel and I don't expect all to agree.

I agree with almost everything you have to say as well.

FHM as currently constructed is not a particularly engaging game. I want to love it, but I just can't get into it. It's boring as heck at times, lacks depth and is still missing something, I'm not sure what, even apart from the occasional crashes. It's also true that the pace of progress and improvements has seemed quite slow at times, though as Alessandro states farther up, there is actually a great deal going on behind the scenes.

In fact I feel guilty in that I've contributed very little to the testing of FHM. I'm extremely involved in OOTP but FHM just hasn't captured my interest enough for me to make a real effort with it. Plus there are so many things to get worked out, that it seems pointless to simply start making lists of more of them.

So yeah, I'm with you on everything you say.

The only reason I'm optimistic is because I believe in what OOTP developments can do. OOTP itself has come a long, long way in the last 10, heck even 5 years. OOTPD is a great company who are as responsive and committed as any game makers you'll find and the FHM team appears to measure up to those same standards. That's even more apparent to those of us in position to see a little more of what goes on behind the scenes. So I don't see any reason at all that FHM won't get much, much better and become the game we all want it to be. It'll just take some time.

[Penfold75]

I have played OOTP Baseball and it is a great game. Baseball just isn't my thing so knowing the baseball game is good is what gives me hope that FHM will eventually be a great game. Right now it's not a particularly good game.

It is great having things being worked on behind the scenes but they have from what I have read in posts a very frustrated user base who I think need some communication from the team behind the game. I have always found communication as the best way to appease the user community. Even the staunch supporters of the game must be wanting some sort of progress report/post or a plan for future patches.

[Andreas Raht]

The FHM team is working on the next patch, don't worry. No break for anybody We found a few issues which slowed down the game, especially when you're loading a saved game and it's all much faster now. And a few (potential) crash bugs have been removed.

[JustBlazin]

yes some info on next patch would be great,i am not in the this is boring already boat I am in the can't even play the game cause half the things I do cause the game to crash,so I would hope there is no breaks until they have a playable game cause this is pathetic cant even get out of oct in my first season.thinking of getting a refund because there is no word from dev team on any of these issues people are having its very frustrating.then I read this thread saying they are on break,makes me sick,could you imagine buying a pair of pants and getting them home to find out that they aren't finished and you have to sew up the seems yourself,well that's how I feel being a beta tester for a half done game and paying full price for it

[Smetana]

Originally Posted by JustBlazin

yes some info on next patch would be great,i am not in the this is boring already boat I am in the can't even play the game cause half the things I do cause the game to crash,so I would hope there is no breaks until they have a playable game cause this is pathetic cant even get out of oct in my first season.thinking of getting a refund because there is no word from dev team on any of these issues people are having its very frustrating.then I read this thread saying they are on break,makes me sick,could you imagine buying a pair of pants and getting them home to find out that they aren't finished and you have to sew up the seems yourself,well that's how I feel being a beta tester for a half done game and paying full price for it

Your frustration is completely understandable. Your pants analogy made me laugh, though

How could you not notice the pants were "not finished" before you got home?