Pitchers changes roles to much during season

[24Rocks]

I have had a few conversations on this topic in the past and I have noticed this a few times but in my league I see alot of SP being moved in and out of the Closers role/bullpen and closers become SP this is the latest incident.

He had 31 saves at the All-star break 1.68 era 1 BS (AI didn't put him on all-star team i had to) Yes i can under stand that maybe he would be better in rotation but not a No-hitter 2 starts later and who would take such a good closer and change him.

The 2nd picture is from a different version (sorry) but the same type of issue he has been in the pen and then throws 122 pitches, I under stand this can happen but seeing pitchers go from SP to being the closer makes no sense during the season on 6 different teams some times, or Closer to SP.

[Rockfan616]

I haven't seen that before, I have seen many times that pitchers will go from being starters to relievers a lot....but not one from starter to closer to starter again. Like an OOTP version of what happened with Joba Chamberlain for instance or Neftali Feliz. It is common for them to bounce from starter to reliever a lot though, but not starter to closer and back.

[JohnHoward]

I don't think this ever happens now because every role on the pitching staff is now a specialist role, but I am just finishing up a 1972 season replay using real lineups and was surprised to see how much this did happen historically, at least in 1972. Chuck Seelbach, Mike Caldwell, and a few others alternated between closer and starter (I'm not talking about what the game did but the actual historical records). This was the first year that Rollie Fingers did not get a start and it was not unusual for him to start one game and close the next in 1970 and 1971. Even though many pitchers were beginning to put up decent save numbers, the role was not yet fully defined as an exclusive specialist who never starts, although Fingers and Sparky Lyle were already in that role by 1972.

[Royalsusedtorule]

Originally Posted by JohnHoward

I don't think this ever happens now because every role on the pitching staff is now a specialist role, but I am just finishing up a 1972 season replay using real lineups and was surprised to see how much this did happen historically, at least in 1972. Chuck Seelbach, Mike Caldwell, and a few others alternated between closer and starter (I'm not talking about what the game did but the actual historical records). This was the first year that Rollie Fingers did not get a start and it was not unusual for him to start one game and close the next in 1970 and 1971. Even though many pitchers were beginning to put up decent save numbers, the role was not yet fully defined as an exclusive specialist who never starts, although Fingers and Sparky Lyle were already in that role by 1972.

The past 2 months are the first time I've ever played historical games/leagues on OOTP - had strictly done modern years prior. While I haven't gone strictly with historical line-ups (I like to see if I can change history once in a while - that's how Royals' fans cope), I do go to baseballreference a lot to see what teams actually had and did in certain seasons or blocks of 2-3 seasons. That was one thing that really surprised me that I didn't remember from following baseball back in the late 60s, early 70s ... how many pitchers started and relieved for teams. With 4-man staffs, teams often pulled guys out of the pen and used them 8-9 times per year as starters due to heavy schedules and doubleheaders. I even found several teams that went heavy with basically a 3-man rotation (35+ starts apiece), then rotated through 3 to 6 other pitchers for the rest of the starts. Those pitchers also pitched predominately in bullpen roles. It's been interesting to see this. Also, it's crazy going back to old box scores and looking at pitch counts and patterns. Pitchers were routinely throwing 130-140 pitches and relievers were often able to go 4-5 innings. And not just the long mop-up guys, but some of the dominant "stoppers" might throw 4 innings and anywhere from 60-80 pitches. Man, how times have changed.

[pgjocki]

Originally Posted by Royalsusedtorule

Also, it's crazy going back to old box scores and looking at pitch counts and patterns. Pitchers were routinely throwing 130-140 pitches and relievers were often able to go 4-5 innings. And not just the long mop-up guys, but some of the dominant "stoppers" might throw 4 innings and anywhere from 60-80 pitches. Man, how times have changed.

This is why I love historically sims as I think the "stopper" is one of the best defined roles in sports and wish they would bring it back. Being a Cardinals fan I feel we are partly to blame for all the specialization with using 3 pictures in an inning. Tony sure did like keeping everyone involved....

[JohnHoward]

Originally Posted by Royalsusedtorule

The past 2 months are the first time I've ever played historical games/leagues on OOTP - had strictly done modern years prior. While I haven't gone strictly with historical line-ups (I like to see if I can change history once in a while - that's how Royals' fans cope), I do go to baseballreference a lot to see what teams actually had and did in certain seasons or blocks of 2-3 seasons. That was one thing that really surprised me that I didn't remember from following baseball back in the late 60s, early 70s ... how many pitchers started and relieved for teams. With 4-man staffs, teams often pulled guys out of the pen and used them 8-9 times per year as starters due to heavy schedules and doubleheaders. I even found several teams that went heavy with basically a 3-man rotation (35+ starts apiece), then rotated through 3 to 6 other pitchers for the rest of the starts. Those pitchers also pitched predominately in bullpen roles. It's been interesting to see this. Also, it's crazy going back to old box scores and looking at pitch counts and patterns. Pitchers were routinely throwing 130-140 pitches and relievers were often able to go 4-5 innings. And not just the long mop-up guys, but some of the dominant "stoppers" might throw 4 innings and anywhere from 60-80 pitches. Man, how times have changed.

Absolutely correct, and again 1972 is a good case in point. Chicago White Sox used 3 starters for most of the season: Wood, Bahnsen, and Bradley. The Royals on the other hand had some stretches where they were using 6 starters, even without doubleheaders and with off days, some combination of Drago, Splittorff, Nelson, Rooker, Dal Canton, Hedlund, Murphy, and Montgomery, all of whom had at least one GF except for Splittorff. Eight different pitchers recorded saves. Eight different pitchers had at least one GS and one GF.