My Team... The Punching Bags... Post GOT Rant

webdox · 04-22-2019, 09:21 AM

Quick <rant>

Last season (2 seasons ago) I was promoted from Diamond with a 78-84 3rd place finish. I knew I would get killed but at least I *thought* I'd get relegated... At least I'd get to see what my high 90's all top 100 FIP starters would do, etc...

No..... Bad team is bad!

Last week in Perfect I went 60-102 last place. My prize for such futility...

Stay Put!

THIS is the main reason not to drop any money once your team gets up to the Perfect level unless Aunt Helga dies and leaves you some serious PP's in her will. There is no where to go but spin your wheels. As others have stated you get punished for winning but this time I wasn't winning jack, just winning misery.

I never should have been promoted in the fist place but I digress... At the very least I should not be up here another week. I am being punished possibly due to numbers. Not enough good teams to run a Perfect League yet so bad Diamond teams get promoted and are forced to stay after a 100+ loss season. Bummed out...

Again, I will continue to plead for another League between Diamond and Perfect. Perfect should be reserved for teams that can actually compete at that level. Every level should use this as the litmus test. Not just Perfect.... it's just that you really feel it the most at Perfect where your well paid team gets hammered night in and night out. I have dropped well over $500 on this team and that basically buys me one of their 800K SP on their rosters. Not at all jealous, if I could afford it I'd be right up there with them. I just don't want to be their rented mule for more than a week. I'd like to be able to enjoy myself a little and feel somewhat competitive... That's just me.

</rant>

atabakin · 04-22-2019, 10:06 AM

First, they did add another level this year. It's called Iron and will allow for more separation across all league levels. You may not have noticed this level because...

Second, you probably were swept up in the initial promotion to Silver after the entry pool. If you didn't want to move up so fast, you could have waited just three days, had a full week in the entry pool, and started in Iron.

Third, there were 4 Perfect leagues last week. Now there are 11. The concentration of whales is now diluted and you should have more success.

No matter how many levels there are, there will always be teams that have to lose. All 30 teams can't finish with 95+ wins. But with many more teams in Perfect now, you should be more competitive.

Dogberry99 · 04-22-2019, 05:36 PM

These posts may be set up as counterpoints to one another, but both are accurate assessments of the gaming experience here.

atabakin · 04-22-2019, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

These posts may be set up as counterpoints to one another, but both are accurate assessments of the gaming experience here.

I'll agree with that. I didn't mean to imply that OP was necessarily wrong. I agree he has legitimate concerns, I just am not sure if there's a sound way to solve them, at least in this year's version since essentially the damage has already been done.

UltimateAverageGuy · 04-22-2019, 08:58 PM

Not another I'm not winning so something must be wrong with the game post

OMGPuppies · 04-22-2019, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimateAverageGuy

Not another I'm not winning so something must be wrong with the game post

I didn't get my participation trophy from last season.

webdox · 04-22-2019, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UltimateAverageGuy

Not another I'm not winning so something must be wrong with the game post

Sorry to have triggered you...

waittilnextyear · 04-23-2019, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webdox

I have dropped well over $500 on this team and that basically buys me one of their 800K SP on their rosters. Not at all jealous, if I could afford it I'd be right up there with them.

Woah. I don't care if people want to spend money on the game, but wowzers that only $500+ isn't even enough to play with the big boys is an interesting perspective. I think I've vastly underestimated the pull this mode has on some people and how competitive people are willing to get with it.

mikezone13 · 04-23-2019, 06:23 AM

I'd love to see a single ULTIMATE league.... maximum 12 perfect league level, and the sub-league winners on each fo these 12 perfect elagues meet in an ultimate league. You then get ONE shot at being the sole, single PT winner, before droppign back to perfect and tryign to get back to ultimate level again the nexts eason. So yes, that means the ultimate league sees new teams every season, so no team can ever win it twice in a row.

In 19, getting to perfect with free to play, wasn't easy, but achievable, staying there was much much harder.

I'm glad I didn't rush it and my teams (all free to play) got put in iron to begin, 2 are now in diamond, around .500 and the other (pack team) is in silver.

MightyVotto · 04-23-2019, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webdox

Again, I will continue to plead for another League between Diamond and Perfect. Perfect should be reserved for teams that can actually compete at that level. Every level should use this as the litmus test. Not just Perfect.... it's just that you really feel it the most at Perfect where your well paid team gets hammered night in and night out.

I agree with needing something to ease the move from Diamond to Perfect. I encountered this in PT19, and I'm already seeing it in this version. It just feels like such a massive competitive gap between these two levels compared to what's experienced between any of the other levels. I should be feeling excited about being promoted to a higher level, but I dread it now.

I'm not that wrapped up in the competitive part of this game, but it is more fun when your team is competing. At the Perfect Level, it seems like you can only really field a competitive team if you have the absolute best cards in the PT Universe. I have a good team that just made it to the Conference Championship round at Diamond Level, but now, my good team is performing like a high school club trying to compete in the MLB. At this point, I'm wondering if I should wait in future versions to start Perfect Team until the first month is over so I don't get unrealistically promoted due to the early season team number issue. I'm finding that I enjoy staying at a certain level and being given a chance to build my team up so it can be more consistently competitive at that level.

HRBaker · 04-23-2019, 09:09 AM

I think solving this issue is a bit complex. The FIRST thing we all (including the Devs) have to accept is that Perfect Level "should" consist of teams that don't vary much in winning percentage... no 100 win seasons and no 100 loss seasons. That would give the level a feeling of competitiveness.

So... how do we get there?

In my opinion (for what it's worth); Each season, the bottom third(1/3) of the Perfect level teams are demoted back to Diamond. This would keep the highest talent teams in Perfect and be RE-adjusted each year to weed out those that can't compete at that level. The current Promotion/Relegation rules for the other levels works good, but it fails to chose the BEST teams once there is no room for error.

Perfect Level should only see teams added that have the best winning percentage - period - and lose the teams that have the worst winning percentage - period.

I think that would make things more competitive at that level.

dkgo · 04-23-2019, 09:27 AM

Is a sixth place diamond team really better than a tenth from bottom perfect team? I honestly don't know.

I like the idea of one "champions league" at the top that takes all the previous perfect winners combined with the top half or however it works out of the previous champions league.

Dogberry99 · 04-23-2019, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

Is a sixth place diamond team really better than a tenth from bottom perfect team? I honestly don't know.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if they are or they aren't. Constant churning will help the teams that deserve to get to Perfect actually make it there without relying on playoff luck (which has not been necessary yet with initial promotions, but will be the case afterwards and for the rest of the game's lifespan). And those teams who aren't deserving won't stagnate, like my 90+ loss team did both times it got promoted to Perfect and could never get relegated. More relegations means nobody gets stuck when they are less than competitive but not uncompetitive enough to relegate, and more promotions means that they can hope to return soon enough when they might be more competitive.

More relegations are more hope.

In short, I agree with HRBaker's post. Additionally, adding more levels of leagues will not address the issue of competitive balance between levels. It may smooth it a bit, but there will always be a disparity that more levels will not fix. Greater amounts of promotions and relegations don't directly fix this issue either, but it ensures nobody has to be trapped by it.

stl jason · 04-23-2019, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if they are or they aren't. Constant churning will help the teams that deserve to get to Perfect actually make it there without relying on playoff luck (which has not been necessary yet with initial promotions, but will be the case afterwards and for the rest of the game's lifespan). And those teams who aren't deserving won't stagnate, like my 90+ loss team did both times it got promoted to Perfect and could never get relegated. More relegations means nobody gets stuck when they are less than competitive but not uncompetitive enough to relegate, and more promotions means that they can hope to return soon enough when they might be more competitive.

More relegations are more hope.

In short, I agree with HRBaker's post. Additionally, adding more levels of leagues will not address the issue of competitive balance between levels. It may smooth it a bit, but there will always be a disparity that more levels will not fix. Greater amounts of promotions and relegations don't directly fix this issue either, but it ensures nobody has to be trapped by it.

perhaps a possible solution to test out would be that all playoff teams get promoted (so 10 teams go up / 10 teams move down from the higher league... assuming an even up/down shift)... if/when we get to the point where only 4 teams get promotions, it's possible for the best team in the league to get bounced from the playoffs in the LDS and miss the promotion cutoff (my 2nd WC team knocked out the best team in the league last season, though they got promoted anyway with 8 teams going up)... with all playoff teams getting the bump, there's no worry about the big dog being stuck in the same tier again....

of course, you might end up with some mediocre teams moving up, as it's not exactly a rare thing to see a barely-over-500 team winning a division; but hopefully with more teams in the relegation sweep, they'd get pushed back down if they are overmatched in the higher tier.

elutz31 · 04-23-2019, 08:41 PM

I don't think the number of people going up or down will change anything. The promotion and relegation system could stay the same. If they used win % to decided who was in what league instead of randomly putting people into leagues it could create more competitive universe.

Example 11 perfect leagues this year. The top 30 teams by winning % of the 320 or so teams in perfect would be in league .401 then 31-60 teams would be in .402 and so on down the road. This could be done at each level, diamond, gold etc.

This could make it more competitive at every level and within each sub-league it could create a ladder to climb to the top. This could also create a champions league of sorts as the top teams would be in perfect .401. If you couldn't compete in that league your win % would drop and you'd fall back or .402 or .403 etc, if you weren't relegated back to diamond. With the top teams playing each other their win % would fall back allowing the next man up to become the man/woman.

It may also eliminate most of the random posts saying there needs to be a separate league for free to play players so they can compete.

04-22-2019, 09:21 AM	#1
webdox Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 289	Deep Thoughts... Quick <rant> Last season (2 seasons ago) I was promoted from Diamond with a 78-84 3rd place finish. I knew I would get killed but at least I thought I'd get relegated... At least I'd get to see what my high 90's all top 100 FIP starters would do, etc... No..... Bad team is bad! Last week in Perfect I went 60-102 last place. My prize for such futility... Stay Put! THIS is the main reason not to drop any money once your team gets up to the Perfect level unless Aunt Helga dies and leaves you some serious PP's in her will. There is no where to go but spin your wheels. As others have stated you get punished for winning but this time I wasn't winning jack, just winning misery. I never should have been promoted in the fist place but I digress... At the very least I should not be up here another week. I am being punished possibly due to numbers. Not enough good teams to run a Perfect League yet so bad Diamond teams get promoted and are forced to stay after a 100+ loss season. Bummed out... Again, I will continue to plead for another League between Diamond and Perfect. Perfect should be reserved for teams that can actually compete at that level. Every level should use this as the litmus test. Not just Perfect.... it's just that you really feel it the most at Perfect where your well paid team gets hammered night in and night out. I have dropped well over $500 on this team and that basically buys me one of their 800K SP on their rosters. Not at all jealous, if I could afford it I'd be right up there with them. I just don't want to be their rented mule for more than a week. I'd like to be able to enjoy myself a little and feel somewhat competitive... That's just me. </rant> Last edited by webdox; 04-22-2019 at 10:04 AM. Reason: spelling

04-22-2019, 05:36 PM	#3
Dogberry99 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Wichita Falls, TX Posts: 1,328	These posts may be set up as counterpoints to one another, but both are accurate assessments of the gaming experience here. __________________ "And, Masters, do not forget to specify, when time and place shall serve, that I am an [censored]." (Much Ado About Nothing 5.1.255-256) Primary Team Collection Rewards (Cards & Packs) F2P Theme Team Movers F2P Theme and Adam Schlesinger Memorial Team

04-23-2019, 06:23 AM	#9
mikezone13 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 533	I'd love to see a single ULTIMATE league.... maximum 12 perfect league level, and the sub-league winners on each fo these 12 perfect elagues meet in an ultimate league. You then get ONE shot at being the sole, single PT winner, before droppign back to perfect and tryign to get back to ultimate level again the nexts eason. So yes, that means the ultimate league sees new teams every season, so no team can ever win it twice in a row. In 19, getting to perfect with free to play, wasn't easy, but achievable, staying there was much much harder. I'm glad I didn't rush it and my teams (all free to play) got put in iron to begin, 2 are now in diamond, around .500 and the other (pack team) is in silver. __________________ AFBL New Jersey Athletics FOD Boston Shamrocks GLBL Milwaukee Eagles HRBL Toronto Stags PBF Commish only ABL (old SBC) Commish only

04-23-2019, 09:09 AM	#11
HRBaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,088	I think solving this issue is a bit complex. The FIRST thing we all (including the Devs) have to accept is that Perfect Level "should" consist of teams that don't vary much in winning percentage... no 100 win seasons and no 100 loss seasons. That would give the level a feeling of competitiveness. So... how do we get there? In my opinion (for what it's worth); Each season, the bottom third(1/3) of the Perfect level teams are demoted back to Diamond. This would keep the highest talent teams in Perfect and be RE-adjusted each year to weed out those that can't compete at that level. The current Promotion/Relegation rules for the other levels works good, but it fails to chose the BEST teams once there is no room for error. Perfect Level should only see teams added that have the best winning percentage - period - and lose the teams that have the worst winning percentage - period. I think that would make things more competitive at that level. __________________

04-22-2019, 10:06 AM	#2
atabakin All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 762	First, they did add another level this year. It's called Iron and will allow for more separation across all league levels. You may not have noticed this level because... Second, you probably were swept up in the initial promotion to Silver after the entry pool. If you didn't want to move up so fast, you could have waited just three days, had a full week in the entry pool, and started in Iron. Third, there were 4 Perfect leagues last week. Now there are 11. The concentration of whales is now diluted and you should have more success. No matter how many levels there are, there will always be teams that have to lose. All 30 teams can't finish with 95+ wins. But with many more teams in Perfect now, you should be more competitive.

04-22-2019, 08:58 PM	#5
UltimateAverageGuy All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 579	Not another I'm not winning so something must be wrong with the game post

04-23-2019, 09:27 AM	#12
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	Is a sixth place diamond team really better than a tenth from bottom perfect team? I honestly don't know. I like the idea of one "champions league" at the top that takes all the previous perfect winners combined with the top half or however it works out of the previous champions league.

04-23-2019, 08:41 PM	#15
elutz31 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 106	I don't think the number of people going up or down will change anything. The promotion and relegation system could stay the same. If they used win % to decided who was in what league instead of randomly putting people into leagues it could create more competitive universe. Example 11 perfect leagues this year. The top 30 teams by winning % of the 320 or so teams in perfect would be in league .401 then 31-60 teams would be in .402 and so on down the road. This could be done at each level, diamond, gold etc. This could make it more competitive at every level and within each sub-league it could create a ladder to climb to the top. This could also create a champions league of sorts as the top teams would be in perfect .401. If you couldn't compete in that league your win % would drop and you'd fall back or .402 or .403 etc, if you weren't relegated back to diamond. With the top teams playing each other their win % would fall back allowing the next man up to become the man/woman. It may also eliminate most of the random posts saying there needs to be a separate league for free to play players so they can compete.