Is there an AI difference when playing out game versus sim

[Déjà Bru]

Blogged!

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

There is no difference. None. Zero. Nada. Same engine. Same code. No difference. Did I mention there is no difference?

Wait...I'm not quite clear on this...So, you're saying there is no difference in game results between simming games and playing them out? Then, why do I see a new thread about it Every. Single. Year?...Oh wait...

[Déjà Bru]

That's when my blog is going to come in handy.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Toast

Thanks David ... I referring to the AI and opposing teams.not my strategy settings.

I'll have to watch more closely when playing inter divisional games that are played in NL parks. My present sim is the Majors quick start 2018.

Thanatoast

Man, I'm a tool. I just reread your original post and I had things 100% backwards, making my suggestion to you pretty dumb. Sorry. I read it as the AI wasn't making changes in simmed games, but you clearly say it's in games you play out.

[Cactusguy21]

I've seen quite the difference between simming and playing in terms of substitutions, but I've only played for a few months now, so it's kind of a small sample size.

[Cactusguy21]

Originally Posted by NoOne

fwiw, <laughs>, some madden games did sim games differently than how they are played out (stated simply)... so, even though it's not true here, it's not completely out in left field.

I remember seeing a video about how bad Madden 18 sims were. They didn't even make sense half the time.

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by Toast

I've noted a major difference how the AI uses player personnel in simmed games versus playing them out. In sim games the AI freely uses players to pinch hit and pinch run and defensively sub but in played out games this doesn't occur. The only player movement I've see in played out games involves relievers. The batting lineup and defensive line up always remains the same. This is true for many games I've played out. I wonder if OOTP is mainly a sim game with the addition of one on one play as being aside interest? I wonder whether something has to be clicked in the set up menu for more player movement to occur in played out games?

Thanatoast

Of course there's a difference. The AI cheats like a mad man. See, what the AI does is calculate that you're not paying attention during a sim, so that's when you see all those predetermined out comes, all the weird plays, etc.

The AI also uses it as an opportunity to contact a bookie in Las Vegas to actually bet against YOUR TEAM! Then it really screws you.

I'm telling ya, I've done this at least one time and I have totally seen a pattern. You have to stay on top of the AI. It will STAB you in the back when your not looking. I wouldn't trust it.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Of course there's a difference. The AI cheats like a mad man. See, what the AI does is calculate that you're not paying attention during a sim, so that's when you see all those predetermined out comes, all the weird plays, etc.

The AI also uses it as an opportunity to contact a bookie in Las Vegas to actually bet against YOUR TEAM! Then it really screws you.

I'm telling ya, I've done this at least one time and I have totally seen a pattern. You have to stay on top of the AI. It will STAB you in the back when your not looking. I wouldn't trust it.

Nah, you got it wrong. The AI doesn't cheat, they just play in such a way that we force you to forget to warm up the right reliever, or pinch hit for your pitcher with 2 runners in scoring position late. Just some fun mind-control stuff under the hood.

Oh, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that...

[CMH]

Originally Posted by Toast

I've noted a major difference how the AI uses player personnel in simmed games versus playing them out. In sim games the AI freely uses players to pinch hit and pinch run and defensively sub but in played out games this doesn't occur. The only player movement I've see in played out games involves relievers. The batting lineup and defensive line up always remains the same. This is true for many games I've played out. I wonder if OOTP is mainly a sim game with the addition of one on one play as being aside interest? I wonder whether something has to be clicked in the set up menu for more player movement to occur in played out games?

Thanatoast

Probably a silly question but are you managing the games or giving your manager the responsibility?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Nah, you got it wrong. The AI doesn't cheat, they just play in such a way that we force you to forget to warm up the right reliever, or pinch hit for your pitcher with 2 runners in scoring position late. Just some fun mind-control stuff under the hood.

Oh, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that...

Oh yeah? Then how do you explain that fictional team you build that goes around the league and kicks the crap out of everybody, racks up 150 wins, then loses to some lame 85 win team in the playoffs.

I mean, that totally NEVER happened to the 2001 Seattle Mariners.

Totally fixed. I should stop throwing away my money every April.



(Actually, I throw my money away in March so I can throw away 10% less of it.)

[Reggie]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Nah, you got it wrong. The AI doesn't cheat, they just play in such a way that we force you to forget to warm up the right reliever, or pinch hit for your pitcher with 2 runners in scoring position late. Just some fun mind-control stuff under the hood.

Oh, maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that...

You have any idea how many times I've done that? I thought it was me...but now I know..

[Drstrangelove]

Originally Posted by Toast

The team I'm managing is in the AL so pitchers obviously won't be pulled for a pinch hitter but other players in the batting order never seem to be pinch hit for run for?

IRL, in the AL, the average team pinch hits once every two games. More often than not, the team that wins is pinch hitting (around 55-60%), so it's not true that teams that are losing are more likely to pinch hit.

How do teams pinch hit it in your league? In mine, set to default, it does it 40 times per team (around 50% of the actual rate.) In total, as sims go, ime, that's negligible. We're talking about a difference of 40 PAs out of ~5,500 each team gets in a season.

However, that means in simmed games (my league), pinch hitting only happens once every 4 games. It's very possible to SEE it not happen 6-8 times in a row and still be exactly the same simulation, because when it's entirely simmed (in my league) there's likely multiple times for every team where there is no one pinch hitting over the course of 6-8 games.

[BirdWatcher]

It does seem odd to me that you aren't seeing this. I hope that others can help you identify any settings that might be out of whack that are causing this.
As others here have said also, I play out all of my games for my team in my current fictional league, though I mostly let the AI manage for both teams.
I do see a good number of substitutions- pinch-hitting, pinch-running, defensive replacements- that aren't related to injury. And this is true for my opponents as much as for my team. I've noticed lately that one particular opponent has a super-speedster on their bench who is brought in frequently to pinch-run, far more than I am used to seeing. And as frustrating as it is to see this guy on base in a close game I also love this variation in strategy.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Oh yeah? Then how do you explain that fictional team you build that goes around the league and kicks the crap out of everybody, racks up 150 wins, then loses to some lame 85 win team in the playoffs.

I mean, that totally NEVER happened to the 2001 Seattle Mariners.

Totally fixed. I should stop throwing away my money every April.



(Actually, I throw my money away in March so I can throw away 10% less of it.)

a 96win team lost to a 82 win team in 2006... i know, because i watched my hometown team lose to mediocrity, lol.

~130's can definitely lose 1/10 or 1/20 or so 7-game series, educated estimate. ~140+ is near perfect but still happens. but at 150, it's 1/100 they don't win a couple 7game series, let alone 1.

with default rules and recent releases, it's not really possibly to get to 150+ with any consistency. even if you go and place the best players in the entire league on your team 1-25, you'll still likely only get to 140's in most years. same years, excluding extreme luck, can do it.

i know you were joking, but if yo usee 150+ it's either league settings variances or extreme and frequent player editing, lol.


hahah poor, poor seattle. that was a monster team, too. they had three or four bonafide sluggers on any team 3-4-5-6 or 2-3-4-5. 2 martinez's, one faded quickly i think, and the other definitely was a roid head waving his finger at congress, griffey jr before he pooped out and only swung for hr, a young alex rodriguez if not mistakent?... and more? i'm not a seattle fan, so the fact i remember says they had a ton of big names.

heh was ichiro on the team, then? i forgot the guy whose mailing address is simply "Ichiro Suzuki, Japan" and it will ge to him! heck, i bet "ichiro, japan" would get to him.

[drksd4848]

BTW, just clarify. Yes, when I made my post about that 150 win team getting beaten by a 85 win crap team, I was making a joke. I really don't believe OOTP is fixed.

Trust me, real life is more fixed than OOTP is! Like, The US elections would be more fair if the voting machines ran on OOTP's code. Any foreign hacker would get too confused trying to figure out what WARr is.

HA!

[NoOne]

all that stuff should be physically unable to connect wirelessly or wired to a network at all points of production, distribution and use. all data should be secure throughout process. encrypted storage device for transfer of a copy to a central location, where it too is never connected, nor can connect to internet etc. rince repeat with summation of results or official documents that can be tallied etc... (regardless, require 3rd party verification, even if it invalidates near inaugurration). lock it up, make it clockwork... can be done with minimal cost compared to current costs.

if it's still vulnerable to wirless hacking within x-feet, lol don't make it that way. (current in-use booths of various states can be hacked this way, not a made up vulnerability -- clearly a re-disign is necessary)

paper backup transfered to central locations per state, too. redundancies everywhere. 3rd party verification. secure ballots. secure voter registration rolls. this really needs to be taken seriously, i don't think i can stress that enough. people should be outraged, but they are too concerned with daily life and pop culture, lol.

something that is essential to a functioning democracy is an election process that has integrity. while our beauracracy limits voter fraud to a minimal, our process still has a major technological hole that should be incredibly concerning. double that with gerrymanding of house or effects of electoral college, and you only have to affect a few thousand maybe ten thousand votes here or their to influence an election. i think people's lack of understanding of technology and only slightly above basic math is why more aren't pulling their hairs out. (i said "hairs" for our german friends, it makes more sense right?)

[sreem]

The Toast came, The Toast commented, The Toast Conquered...

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by NoOne

all that stuff should be physically unable to connect wirelessly or wired to a network at all points of production, distribution and use. all data should be secure throughout process. encrypted storage device for transfer of a copy to a central location, where it too is never connected, nor can connect to internet etc. rince repeat with summation of results or official documents that can be tallied etc... (regardless, require 3rd party verification, even if it invalidates near inaugurration). lock it up, make it clockwork... can be done with minimal cost compared to current costs.

if it's still vulnerable to wirless hacking within x-feet, lol don't make it that way. (current in-use booths of various states can be hacked this way, not a made up vulnerability -- clearly a re-disign is necessary)

paper backup transfered to central locations per state, too. redundancies everywhere. 3rd party verification. secure ballots. secure voter registration rolls. this really needs to be taken seriously, i don't think i can stress that enough. people should be outraged, but they are too concerned with daily life and pop culture, lol.

something that is essential to a functioning democracy is an election process that has integrity. while our beauracracy limits voter fraud to a minimal, our process still has a major technological hole that should be incredibly concerning. double that with gerrymanding of house or effects of electoral college, and you only have to affect a few thousand maybe ten thousand votes here or their to influence an election. i think people's lack of understanding of technology and only slightly above basic math is why more aren't pulling their hairs out. (i said "hairs" for our german friends, it makes more sense right?)

Well... the top of that post makes me feel much better.


The bottom part... not so much

[Toast]

Originally Posted by sreem

The Toast came, The Toast commented, The Toast Conquered...

Actually my signon name was never Toast but Thanatoast that I derived from the Greek God Thanatos. Not certain how OOTP's e-mail site ended up using Toast. Some of the postings that went back years under Toast weren't mine. Nevertheless I like your "conquered" bit considering the underlying meaning of Thanatos.

Thanatoast

If you question they will come! from the novel "Field of Screams"

[NoOne]

the american way: it's not a problem until it causes a problem, and even then the now visible problem may not cause any change in behaviour to fix it.

what the electoral college allows for a minority winner, and every person with a brain has known this since taught about it in elementary school? holy %#?!? it's happened 3 times?!? well, i guess it isn't too big of a deal... i mean the whole idea of voting is that the majority wins, but %$#@i it.. i'm too lazy to do anything about it and too dumb to care about the obvious ramifications.

lol sorry. just like the voting booths.. have a problem... see the problem... ignore it. something is wrong here. stay away from america in the coming generations... that's only a half joke.