Pick-off choice?

Painmantle · 05-17-2013, 08:09 AM

I noticed this in 13 and wondered if it would change in 14 and obviously it has not. Why on earth with runners on 1st and second do I not have a choice to attempt a pick off throw to 1st base?

It only gives me the option to throw to 2nd base.1st is grayed out! While I understand the runner on second is a higher priority for the AI but runners getting picked off base that are not the lead base runners most certainly happens and it should be a choice imho.... It someone believes this is a bug and not intentional let me know and I'll post this in the bug thread!

Same issue with runners on 2nd and 3rd...can't throw to 2nd

]And while I don't have an example iof this yet, I'm pretty sure that when runners are on 1st and 3rd you can throw to either base

Bluenoser · 05-17-2013, 08:27 AM

Not disputing your claim about runners not on lead base getting picked off, but I sure can't recall seeing any. I can not remember a time ever when I saw a throw to 1st when there were runners on 1st and 2nd.

Quite possible it happens, and I'm just not noticing it.

Doesn't make sense to me though, I'm concerned with the lead runner. He's going to score before the other guy so he's my priority. I'd throw to 2nd maybe, but not 1st. If the guy on 2nd isn't going, then the guy on 1st definitely isn't.

Painmantle · 05-17-2013, 08:55 AM

And I'm not saying it happens a lot, I'm sure it is a very rare thing. I'm not saying it's a good Idea(It most defiantly is very high risk, low reward scenario) But (and I don't have data to back it up) I think it's a safe bet that in the 380,000 + games played in MLB since 1900 it has happened more often than a Perfect Game has been pitched! And perfect games happen in OOTP!

Now maybe it's built into the coding, kind of like the catcher whipping one down to 1st or 3rd and picking a runner off and I haven't noticed.

Painmantle · 05-17-2013, 09:00 AM

Maybe this has something to do with it:

Major League Baseball poised to pick off 1st-and-3rd trick move - ESPN

Painmantle · 05-17-2013, 09:01 AM

Maybe this has something to do with it:

Major League Baseball poised to pick off 1st-and-3rd trick move - ESPN

JohnHoward · 05-17-2013, 09:03 AM

I remember being coached in high school that the pitcher should never throw to first with another runner on second or runners on second and third (bases loaded) because of the risk of over-throw with a runner in scoring position. (First and third is worth the risk because you are trying to prevent another runner from getting into scoring position.)

We were taught that in the same way that we were taught that when you are a runner on second, you don't try for third on a groundball to the shortstop. It isn't that you can't do it, it just isn't sound baseball strategy. If the game modeled a bunch of runners being thrown out at third on grounders to short I bet you wouldn't be happy.

This may have nothing to do with how the game is designed, but that is what our coaches taught us.

Painmantle · 05-17-2013, 09:40 AM

Yeah they also taught us to never make the last out at third when your the winning run but it happens. And I've seen some pick off attempts to 1st with runners on 1st and 2nd, usually by a LHP as he's facing the base.I think one thing that makes that a possibility of success is the surprise element. They expect you to pay more attention to the guy on 2nd so they get a little to comfortable with their lead. And frankly if I'm up 4-1 with the bases loaded or 2-1, 3-1 with men on 1st and 2nd, the guy on first is a pretty important runner and picking him off could very well save the game. But either way I was just wondering why the option doesn't exist. cause we all know this game isn't about what happens in real life , it's about what you want to happen in your fake Baseball world...and damn it I want to throw to 1st with men on 1st and 2nd and I can't!

RchW · 05-17-2013, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painmantle

Yeah they also taught us to never make the last out at third when your the winning run but it happens. And I've seen some pick off attempts to 1st with runners on 1st and 2nd, usually by a LHP as he's facing the base.I think one thing that makes that a possibility of success is the surprise element. They expect you to pay more attention to the guy on 2nd so they get a little to comfortable with their lead. And frankly if I'm up 4-1 with the bases loaded or 2-1, 3-1 with men on 1st and 2nd, the guy on first is a pretty important runner and picking him off could very well save the game. But either way I was just wondering why the option doesn't exist. cause we all know this game isn't about what happens in real life , it's about what you want to happen in your fake Baseball world...and damn it I want to throw to 1st with men on 1st and 2nd and I can't!

I can't say I've ever seen it in an MLB game. No way I have a perfect memory but I suspect that it would have stuck with me because of the extreme risk and stupidity. I'd bet that the pitching coach or manager would come out to ask "what the ____ are you doing"?

Edit. The answer is obvious now.

When men are at 1st and 2nd the 1B does not hold the runner at all. Your IF defense would be seriously compromised otherwise. You cannot throw to 1st if the 1B is not there (balk). Are you suggesting that pitchers throw to the 1B playing behind or off to the side? That may be a balk too. I don't think so. It's clear that the play just doesn't happen unless the defensive team is incompetent or crazy.

05-17-2013, 08:09 AM	#1
Painmantle Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Greenfield ,IN Posts: 3,053	Pick-off choice? I noticed this in 13 and wondered if it would change in 14 and obviously it has not. Why on earth with runners on 1st and second do I not have a choice to attempt a pick off throw to 1st base? It only gives me the option to throw to 2nd base.1st is grayed out! While I understand the runner on second is a higher priority for the AI but runners getting picked off base that are not the lead base runners most certainly happens and it should be a choice imho.... It someone believes this is a bug and not intentional let me know and I'll post this in the bug thread! Same issue with runners on 2nd and 3rd...can't throw to 2nd ]And while I don't have an example iof this yet, I'm pretty sure that when runners are on 1st and 3rd you can throw to either base __________________ “As soon as I got out there I felt a strange relationship with the pitcher's mound. It was as if I'd been born out there. Pitching just felt like the most natural thing in the world. Striking out batters was easy.” -Babe Ruth “Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star.”-Tris Speaker My Dynasties The Beantown Bambino Last edited by Painmantle; 05-17-2013 at 08:17 AM.

05-17-2013, 08:55 AM	#3
Painmantle Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Greenfield ,IN Posts: 3,053	And I'm not saying it happens a lot, I'm sure it is a very rare thing. I'm not saying it's a good Idea(It most defiantly is very high risk, low reward scenario) But (and I don't have data to back it up) I think it's a safe bet that in the 380,000 + games played in MLB since 1900 it has happened more often than a Perfect Game has been pitched! And perfect games happen in OOTP! Now maybe it's built into the coding, kind of like the catcher whipping one down to 1st or 3rd and picking a runner off and I haven't noticed. __________________ “As soon as I got out there I felt a strange relationship with the pitcher's mound. It was as if I'd been born out there. Pitching just felt like the most natural thing in the world. Striking out batters was easy.” -Babe Ruth “Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star.”-Tris Speaker My Dynasties The Beantown Bambino Last edited by Painmantle; 05-17-2013 at 08:57 AM.

05-17-2013, 09:00 AM	#4
Painmantle Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Greenfield ,IN Posts: 3,053	Maybe this has something to do with it: Major League Baseball poised to pick off 1st-and-3rd trick move - ESPN __________________ “As soon as I got out there I felt a strange relationship with the pitcher's mound. It was as if I'd been born out there. Pitching just felt like the most natural thing in the world. Striking out batters was easy.” -Babe Ruth “Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star.”-Tris Speaker My Dynasties The Beantown Bambino

05-17-2013, 09:01 AM	#5
Painmantle Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Greenfield ,IN Posts: 3,053	Maybe this has something to do with it: Major League Baseball poised to pick off 1st-and-3rd trick move - ESPN __________________ “As soon as I got out there I felt a strange relationship with the pitcher's mound. It was as if I'd been born out there. Pitching just felt like the most natural thing in the world. Striking out batters was easy.” -Babe Ruth “Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star.”-Tris Speaker My Dynasties The Beantown Bambino

05-17-2013, 09:40 AM	#7
Painmantle Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Greenfield ,IN Posts: 3,053	Yeah they also taught us to never make the last out at third when your the winning run but it happens. And I've seen some pick off attempts to 1st with runners on 1st and 2nd, usually by a LHP as he's facing the base.I think one thing that makes that a possibility of success is the surprise element. They expect you to pay more attention to the guy on 2nd so they get a little to comfortable with their lead. And frankly if I'm up 4-1 with the bases loaded or 2-1, 3-1 with men on 1st and 2nd, the guy on first is a pretty important runner and picking him off could very well save the game. But either way I was just wondering why the option doesn't exist. cause we all know this game isn't about what happens in real life , it's about what you want to happen in your fake Baseball world...and damn it I want to throw to 1st with men on 1st and 2nd and I can't! __________________ “As soon as I got out there I felt a strange relationship with the pitcher's mound. It was as if I'd been born out there. Pitching just felt like the most natural thing in the world. Striking out batters was easy.” -Babe Ruth “Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star.”-Tris Speaker My Dynasties The Beantown Bambino

05-17-2013, 08:27 AM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 13,680	Not disputing your claim about runners not on lead base getting picked off, but I sure can't recall seeing any. I can not remember a time ever when I saw a throw to 1st when there were runners on 1st and 2nd. Quite possible it happens, and I'm just not noticing it. Doesn't make sense to me though, I'm concerned with the lead runner. He's going to score before the other guy so he's my priority. I'd throw to 2nd maybe, but not 1st. If the guy on 2nd isn't going, then the guy on 1st definitely isn't.

05-17-2013, 09:03 AM	#6
JohnHoward All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 624	I remember being coached in high school that the pitcher should never throw to first with another runner on second or runners on second and third (bases loaded) because of the risk of over-throw with a runner in scoring position. (First and third is worth the risk because you are trying to prevent another runner from getting into scoring position.) We were taught that in the same way that we were taught that when you are a runner on second, you don't try for third on a groundball to the shortstop. It isn't that you can't do it, it just isn't sound baseball strategy. If the game modeled a bunch of runners being thrown out at third on grounders to short I bet you wouldn't be happy. This may have nothing to do with how the game is designed, but that is what our coaches taught us.