Gambo and T_Wil1 Photopack

[FatJack]

Originally Posted by Merkle923

As to Topps filling in the blanks - mix in the 1966 guys they left out with the 2015 players in the 1966 design being used for the Heritage set that comes out next month - I've been arguing that for years. The closest I got them to do were these occasional autographed cards (liked the 1960-style Dick Burwell). If they can't make a chase card out of it, they won't do it. What they have to pay the player for his image rights, to make a card most collectors would have no interest in, makes no economic sense.

Also, Topps does not have a photo of the "other" Billy Williams of the 1969 Pilots. One of the first things I looked for. They got him with Hawaii during the PCL/IL shoots of 1968 while the major leaguers were boycotting Topps, but that was it.

I had thought about that. But it would seem to me that the players in question--like Leon Brown, for example--would not charge a great deal for the use of their images. They'd probably be more than happy to do it just to have some licensed cards they could pass on to their kids and grandkids. We're not talking major stars, here, who can command thousands for their autographs. Deceased players might be more problematic (no telling what the families would see as the value), but a guy like Leon Brown...I'm telling you, he'd do it for free. A&G, another Topps brand, has done similar things with Negro Leaguers. I'd wager those rights cost more than a guy who got a cup of coffee 50 years ago. Most collectors I know would be thrilled to chase such cards as opposed to yet another insert of Jackie Robinson featuring the same picture they've used a hundred times before. Yes, they already have Robinson's rights paid for, and, yes, its Jackie Robinson. But, again, I doubt guys who managed a handful of games in the bigs would charge much and the collectors I know would gladly chase them with enthusiasm. I know I'd buy more product to collect such cards (I'd much rather get 'em out of a pack than on the secondary market).

As to Billy Williams, I'm sorry to hear that they don't have him with Seattle. But the computer generated "airbrushing" they use these days is quite a far sight better than the old manual on-the-negative painting. They can make that minor league picture work, I'm guessing.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by FatJack

As to Billy Williams, I'm sorry to hear that they don't have him with Seattle. But the computer generated "airbrushing" they use these days is quite a far sight better than the old manual on-the-negative painting. They can make that minor league picture work, I'm guessing.

I would think it wouldn't be that hard to work out an agreement with AP and get limited-use rights to that wirephoto that was taken when Billy was called up. Then you could colorize it and make cards from it, as people have already done.

Also sorry to see that Billy passed away at the end of 2013; I had missed that news. So the "Pilots in the Sky" team now includes Gene Brabender, George Brunet, Jerry Stephenson, Fred Talbot, Don Mincher, Mike Hegan, Jim Pagliaroni, Merritt Ranew, Ray Oyler, Greg Goossen and Billy, as well as the tragic Miguel Fuentes (and perhaps others I've missed). Man, they're dropping left and right, aren't they? By way of contrast 1969 Mets are missing only Tommie, Tug, and Clink, last I checked. (Goossen appeared for the 1965-68 Mets, but had been in the minors until the trade to Seattle in 1969; only Jim Gosger actually played for both teams.)

If they keep this up, nobody will talk to Bouton at the reunions. Not because of Ball Four, just because there won't be anyone else left. To quote Joe Schultz, "ah, sh*tf*ck".

[tnfoto]

Jumping back a few posts...

Originally Posted by simarc

I can't seem to find a photo of Mr. Rodriguez in a M's uniform circa 2000.

I only have these three, the first from 1999 and the latter two from 2000.

[FatJack]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

I would think it wouldn't be that hard to work out an agreement with AP and get limited-use rights to that wirephoto that was taken when Billy was called up. Then you could colorize it and make cards from it, as people have already done.

The photo the AP used when Billy was recalled was actually Pilots property. They took those B&W photos of all their players (including minor leaguers and invitees) for press guides, promotion and such. Though pictures of Billy, Steve Williams and others may not have been "issued" in that 5x7 (?) format they used, its one of theirs.

[keonleafs]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

We've seen him before, but not without the famous mustache. From a spring training, probably 1976. (1977 ST would be wearing the '76 uniforms with the Bicentennial patch and once Warren had made the bigs, there'd be no reason to wear #55 instead of his own #40.)

Attachment 384829Attachment 384830

Mustache or not, here are 4 different Brusstar pics. I am very skeptical on this "mystery" player.

[Terry D]

Once again I am looking for some guys from my era, in this case from Milwaukee. Does anyone have images of the players I need which are NOT from

a) Major league card sets (Topps, Fleer, Donruss, Bowman, Upper Deck, Score)?
b) The Miller Brewing Lite Beer 1994 set?

Here they are:
1) Dave LaPoint
2) Rick (Buster) Keeton
3) Paul Hartzell
4) Willie Mueller (preferably wearing Nos. 42 or 51, which he wore in 1981)
5) Fred Holdsworth
6) Dave Huppert
7) Brian Giles (the one who came up with the Mets in 81, was a Brewer in 85)
8) Doug Jones
9) Chuck Porter

Topps Vault is OK, if they exist. Thanks, all.

[baseball-birthdays.com]

Originally Posted by Terry D

Once again I am looking for some guys from my era, in this case from Milwaukee. Does anyone have images of the players I need which are NOT from

a) Major league card sets (Topps, Fleer, Donruss, Bowman, Upper Deck, Score)?
b) The Miller Brewing Lite Beer 1994 set?

Here they are:
1) Dave LaPoint
2) Rick (Buster) Keeton
3) Paul Hartzell
4) Willie Mueller (preferably wearing Nos. 42 or 51, which he wore in 1981)
5) Fred Holdsworth
6) Dave Huppert
7) Brian Giles (the one who came up with the Mets in 81, was a Brewer in 85)
8) Doug Jones
9) Chuck Porter

Topps Vault is OK, if they exist. Thanks, all.

Keeton with a Band-Aid... I have an "action" shot of Mueller wearing number 40 if you want it...

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by Terry D

Once again I am looking for some guys from my era, in this case from Milwaukee. Does anyone have images of the players I need which are NOT from

a) Major league card sets (Topps, Fleer, Donruss, Bowman, Upper Deck, Score)?
b) The Miller Brewing Lite Beer 1994 set?

Here they are:
1) Dave LaPoint
2) Rick (Buster) Keeton
3) Paul Hartzell
4) Willie Mueller (preferably wearing Nos. 42 or 51, which he wore in 1981)
5) Fred Holdsworth
6) Dave Huppert
7) Brian Giles (the one who came up with the Mets in 81, was a Brewer in 85)
8) Doug Jones
9) Chuck Porter

Topps Vault is OK, if they exist. Thanks, all.

1985 Brewers.

[tnfoto]

Originally Posted by Terry D

Once again I am looking for some guys from my era, in this case from Milwaukee. Does anyone have images of the players I need which are NOT from

a) Major league card sets (Topps, Fleer, Donruss, Bowman, Upper Deck, Score)?
b) The Miller Brewing Lite Beer 1994 set?

Here they are:
1) Dave LaPoint
2) Rick (Buster) Keeton
3) Paul Hartzell
4) Willie Mueller (preferably wearing Nos. 42 or 51, which he wore in 1981)
5) Fred Holdsworth
6) Dave Huppert
7) Brian Giles (the one who came up with the Mets in 81, was a Brewer in 85)
8) Doug Jones
9) Chuck Porter

Topps Vault is OK, if they exist. Thanks, all.

Not sure of the year on this one, ca. 1981-85.

[Merkle923]

No, a contract with a $1 retainer and a $125 use fee signed in 1962 is not going to still be in force today.

Among other things, what and who Topps can put in a set of its cards is part of the company's contract with the Players' Association. You may notice that guys who've never played a major league game do not appear in the Topps-brand regular set. Only a limited number of them can appear in other sets like Bowman and Heritage. And I do not know the specifics but there are minimums that must be paid to anybody - retired players included - depicted in an MLB uniform - and they're not $125 a throw.

[Merkle923]

Future Mets' pitcher Bruhert was in camp with the '73 Phillies, wearing number 55 - per their spring roster.

Warren Brusstar did not appear in a Phils' camp until 1977 and was wearing number 40 when he did.

If additional confirmation is needed, notice that none of the players in the background of Phillies' #55 have names on the backs of their uniforms. The last time the Phils did that was 1973.

[Merkle923]

From a Brewers' yearbook - 1979 or 1980.

[stlcardsfan]

Originally Posted by keonleafs

Mustache or not, here are 4 different Brusstar pics. I am very skeptical on this "mystery" player.

man, i remember getting one of his topps cards and I always thought that guy was so ugly.

Looks like he rolled around in some trash and then glued some cat hair to his face

[bobb49]

Originally Posted by Cusick

The Joe Stephenson 1943 Giants' photo comes from Baseball Birthdays. It does have the zip up uniform, and the right ear seems to be a match. The Cubs' photo of Stephenson was from an earlier post on this thread, and bears a strong facial resemblance to our mystery catcher. I think this may be the guy.

I think you nailed it. Thanks so much.

[Amazin69]

Originally Posted by Merkle923

Future Mets' pitcher Bruhert was in camp with the '73 Phillies, wearing number 55 - per their spring roster.

Warren Brusstar did not appear in a Phils' camp until 1977 and was wearing number 40 when he did.

If additional confirmation is needed, notice that none of the players in the background of Phillies' #55 have names on the backs of their uniforms. The last time the Phils did that was 1973.

Ahh, I was going through the Phillies organizational charts and I couldn't find anyone who fit alphabetically other than Brusstar, but Bruhert never pitched in the Phils' chain, he was Rule V drafted and then given back. That's why I missed him.

Sorry about that. And thanks for the info about the year the Phils went to names on the backs.

Where does one find spring rosters? Seems as though everyone has them, save me.

[stlcardsfan]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Ahh, I was going through the Phillies organizational charts and I couldn't find anyone who fit alphabetically other than Brusstar, but Bruhert never pitched in the Phils' chain, he was Rule V drafted and then given back. That's why I missed him.

Sorry about that. And thanks for the info about the year the Phils went to names on the backs.

Where does one find spring rosters? Seems as though everyone has them, save me.

ive been trying to do cardinals rosters/nri's its close to impossible to find info. no one seems to keep ST info

[Cusick]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Where does one find spring rosters? Seems as though everyone has them, save me.

I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Unless I've missed something, I think that Merkle923 and I are the only two who have been routinely citing spring rosters.

To my knowledge, there is no publicly available source on the Internet for spring rosters at the current time. As a SABR member, I'm able to access that organization's subscription to Paper of Record, which gets me to old copies of The Sporting News. Various editions of The Sporting News had spring training rosters going back in time as far as 1925. The rosters tended to be spread out across January through March a few teams at a time, rather than all in one issue. I was only successful in getting back to 1928, because of legibility problems in the quality of the scans via Paper of Record.

I also used a number of paper documents in building a file of spring roster players who never made the majors during regular season play. Those paper documents were annuals like Street and Smiths, the Sporting News Yearbook, Athlon, etc., plus the annual April issue of Baseball Digest. All of those publications contained spring rosters at one point or another.

Perhaps Merkle found a different way to acquire the spring rosters.

[Merkle923]

Street & Smith's and vintage Press Guides. Have shelves full of them. Spring Training rosters can largely be established back into the '20s - it's the non-roster guys who are the crapshoot.

As Bruhert suggests, if you were Rule 5, you had to go onto the roster, so you'll be in the Street & Smith and the Press Guide even if you never appear in the organization. And everybody else will be listed in the team "affiliations" pages at Baseball-Reference.Com - so there's easy hunting.

There is one fairly safe rule of thumb with the Spring Training photography Topps did prior to, say, 1992. They limited themselves to guys in big league camp, roster or non-roster invited. But by 1980 the scourge of information-seekers began to appear: Players Brought Over From Minor League Camp. And that's when the ID nightmare truly began.

[KenRaffensberger16]

Andy Seminick, noted Phillies and Reds catcher (1920-2004) MLB: 1943-1957 & 1949
starting National League all-star game catcher:
Seminick fit the description of the grizzled veteran to a T. Maybe that's why Robin Roberts
selected this photo of Andy for his book (published in 1996) on the 1950 Phillies "Whiz Kids"
team captioning it "Could Andy ever have looked so young"?
Seminick was already a steady veteran of the baseball wars when he caught Roberts between
1948 to 1951 and 1955 to 1957. Andy looked much younger in this photo when he made his
major league debut on Sept. 14, 1943, two days after his 23rd birthday.

[SDL]

Originally Posted by Amazin69

By way of contrast 1969 Mets are missing only Tommie, Tug, and Clink, last I checked. (Goossen appeared for the 1965-68 Mets, but had been in the minors until the trade to Seattle in 1969; only Jim Gosger actually played for both teams.)

Actually, a few more '69 Mets are at the Great Shea Stadium In The Sky

Danny Frisella, Don Cardwell, and Cal Koonce are there as well as Gil Hodges, Rube Walker and Eddie Yost.