Expansion Process

[bwburke94]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Incorrect. There are only 22 Short Season A clubs...

Actually, that brings up a good point. OOTP's roster set uses "A-" to refer to the short season leagues, but in normal fan context it would be understood as the lowest full-season leagues.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Actually, that brings up a good point. OOTP's roster set uses "A-" to refer to the short season leagues, but in normal fan context it would be understood as the lowest full-season leagues.

I'd wager that's because the guys making the game really don't know minor league baseball.

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I'd wager that's because the guys making the game really don't know minor league baseball.

Was that really necessary or are you just here to Troll? From your previous posts, you obviously don't know minor league baseball either...or programming for that manner.

[bwburke94]

The cross-section of programmers who know minor league baseball is fairly small, but we have an entire community of baseball fans here. OOTP wouldn't be as great without our help.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

Was that really necessary or are you just here to Troll? From your previous posts, you obviously don't know minor league baseball either...or programming for that manner.

There are 6 levels of minor league baseball. Everybody has a team at the top 4 levels that are all full season. The programmers here only included 3 levels of full season leagues in the minors.

They don't know baseball.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

There are 6 levels of minor league baseball.

Currently? Yes. Always? No. (And there is some debate as to when A was officially split into two discrete levels.)

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Currently? Yes. Always? No. (And there is some debate as to when A was officially split into two discrete levels.)

What are your thoughts about the Adv Rookie and regular Rookie level? To me it's technically the same as how Class-A is split up.

The current minor league classification system divides leagues into one of five classes, those being Triple-A (AAA), Double-A (AA), Class A (Single-A or A), Class A Short Season, and Rookie. Furthermore, Class A is further subdivided into Class A and Class A-Advanced (often called Low-A and High-A, respectively), and Rookie is further subdivided into Rookie Advanced, Complex-based Rookie and international summer baseball. Under the rules governing the affiliated minor leagues (specifically Major League Baseball Rule 51), Class A Short Season is a separate classification from the other leagues bearing the "Class A" name, despite the similarity in name.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

What are your thoughts about the Adv Rookie and regular Rookie level?

There is some question as to when that division became official as well.

Practically speaking, the difference between Rookie Advanced and Rookie is that the former are 'real' minor leagues in that the clubs play in dedicated parks, represent specific cities/towns, charge admission, and are for-profit enterprises. The latter are operations funded entirely by the major league parent club, play at the spring training complex of the parent club, and no admission is charged.

There were also player service limits which differed between the two, but this was changed back at the beginning of 2008, as noted in the final two paragraphs of this article:

In Thursday's other rule change, Rule 51 concerning limits on Minor League service time eliminated the distinction between the levels Rookie, where the limit had been two years, and Rookie Advanced, where players could be kept for three years.

Henceforth, the three-year limit will apply to both.

Here the description of the minor league classifications as given in the 2008 edition of the Major League Rules:

Major League Rule 51

(a) LEAGUE CLASSIFICATIONS. Each Minor League shall be classified as a Class AAA, Class AA, Class A, Short-Season A or Rookie League. Leagues in the Class A classification shall be given the further subclassification of Full-Season A or Class A-Advanced. Leagues in the Rookie classification also shall be given the further subclassification of Rookie or Rookie-Advanced. The subclassification in which a Class A or Rookie League is placed shall be determined each year by the Commissioner or the Commissioner's designee, after consultation with the Minor League Association and the President of the affected Minor League.

According to the above, there are only five minor league classifications, with 'A' and 'Rookie' are divided into two subclassifications.

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

According to the above, there are only five minor league classifications, with 'A' and 'Rookie' are divided into two subclassifications.

Great stuff as always LGO!

I think this is where the confusion comes in with how the game splits the "levels" of minor leagues. It seems like they are going off classes, which they do have right and was probably coded that way in a much earlier version than the change that MLB made with the sub classes at the Single-A and Rookie levels. Hopefully this is an area they are going to address for 18.

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Currently? Yes. Always? No. (And there is some debate as to when A was officially split into two discrete levels.)

And currently is what we're discussing here. If the modern career league is going to have the expansion function, then they have to get something as simple as the minor league structure right.

Historical is a completely different issue.

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

And currently is what we're discussing here. If the modern career league is going to have the expansion function, then they have to get something as simple as the minor league structure right.

Historical is a completely different issue.

Then why not do something to help out

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...beta-team.html

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

And currently is what we're discussing here. If the modern career league is going to have the expansion function, then they have to get something as simple as the minor league structure right.

Historical is a completely different issue.

Yes, but they're all part of the OOTP package, and thus need to be taken into consideration.

[Mancandy]

I would pay double the price for a game that had a real expansion process. Seriously. Not just the news articles, but participating in the amateur draft a year before they join(not to mention drafting at the end of the round instead of the beginning) and having minor league teams start the season before. It's possible to work around it all through associated leagues, but it is SO time consuming and such a pain in the ass. I did it once a couple years ago, the first time associated leagues were included, and I will never do it again.

The only other thing I could possibly ask for is a better mechanism to relocate and/or build a new stadium. Just going in and changing the name and the dimensions is so...anticlimactic. You don't feel like you really did anything. I want to negotiate with the city for financing. I want to be able to plug in the dimensions and the game tell me how it'll play. I want news stories announcing the new stadium is in the works and the ground breaking ceremony, I want stories about the last game in the old stadium, I want it to acknowledge that X player hit the first home run in the new stadium, etc.

[sawchuk]

My suggestion is a Wizard when you Expand; you set up the MLB Team, then should present to you options like:
League-AAA: Y/N
League-AA: Y/N
Etc...
So you can select the League and the levels you want to start with
...for those you select YES, then, Select City/Nickname and PUSH Team Creation
Auto creation in schedule and leave staff etc blank.
As per my thread, the date should be a bit earlier to allow hiring.
Anything you don't want to add now you can then add manually after Season 1.
This is no different from a code/programming perspective then what is available now but just structuring it in steps versus 'automation' which seems to be the ire of everyone.

[ArcAngel]

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Actually, that brings up a good point. OOTP's roster set uses "A-" to refer to the short season leagues...

In actual reality that would mean Low-A ball, no?

Whereas A+ would mean High-A.

R+ could mean Advanced Rookie.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I doubt this ever happens as they can't even get minor league affiliates right in the expansion process as it is.

That process has occurred in different ways for each of the expansions MLB has done. Which version of the real-life processes do you want to use?

[CrescentMoonie]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

That process has occurred in different ways for each of the expansions MLB has done. Which version of the real-life processes do you want to use?

I want the version that doesn't skip A Advanced teams as part of the setup. I want the version that doesn't put a team in Georgia and assign it to the Pioneer league. I want the version that doesn't give you two teams in the same rookie league.

I want one that, at least, gives you affiliates at AAA, AA, A+, and A with locations that actually make sense for the corresponding leagues.

Keep the pro/rel BS and other meaningless bells and whistles, just give me a game that does actual baseball things properly. Until then I'll continue to either only purchase it when it's part of something like the Humble Bundle or just ignore it altogether.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I want the version that doesn't skip A Advanced teams as part of the setup.

A-Advanced didn't always exist.

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I want the version that doesn't put a team in Georgia and assign it to the Pioneer league.

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I want one that, at least, gives you affiliates at AAA, AA, A+, and A with locations that actually make sense for the corresponding leagues.

League creation in terms of city choices has always been something of a disappointment.

There are different approaches to making it better. My suggestion is to leverage real-world baseball history. There's lots to use as reference data for better and more realistic league creation.

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

I want the version that doesn't give you two teams in the same rookie league.

The San Francisco Giants, from 1997–2000, had two affiliates in the California League during each of those seasons.. The Oakland Athletics similarly had two affiliates in the California League in each of the 1997–2002 seasons.

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie

Keep the pro/rel BS and other meaningless bells and whistles, just give me a game that does actual baseball things properly.

Which period of baseball things properly?

Are you prepared to help get those baseball things done properly by contributing with either research to gather reference data, formulating detailed feature proposals, or both?