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Old 01-06-2017, 11:31 AM   #41
Spritze
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The for reals actual reason for the stopper role in OOTP came about because in 1871-1975 or so, with starting pitchers finishing way more games than they do now closers hardly ever pitched. The conditions closers are used in now happened far less often. As the closer was the best bullpen arm using him for only 20 to 30 innings a year seemed a bit silly. Stoppers are closers with looser reigns, they come in earlier and pitch longer. Save conditions are ignored.
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:38 AM   #42
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I just tested changing the 'Use of closers' setting.

If it is set to 'very rarely', 'rarely', 'normal' then the 'stopper' role is available.
If it is set to 'often' or 'very often' then the 'stopper role is not available.

So that may be the only determiner and I'd like that to be removed.
To what purpose? Maybe I'm just being dense, but, as you point out, the game already allows you to use closers and stoppers at the same time - you just don't want to use those settings. But if you use the "often" or "very often" settings for closer use, what would be the stopper's role? It seems like he'd just be a set-up man for the closer, and the game already has those. Or would the closer be the set-up man for the stopper? I am just not seeing how this would work out in practice.
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:54 AM   #43
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The closer is the stopper AND the stopper is the closer. Maybe if they were twins the same guy could be both but probably not.
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:42 PM   #44
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The for reals actual reason for the stopper role in OOTP came about because in 1871-1975 or so, with starting pitchers finishing way more games than they do now closers hardly ever pitched. The conditions closers are used in now happened far less often. As the closer was the best bullpen arm using him for only 20 to 30 innings a year seemed a bit silly. Stoppers are closers with looser reigns, they come in earlier and pitch longer. Save conditions are ignored.
That makes a lot of sense, and is consistent with the history of the game. As I see it:
  • Stopper: A reliever who is brought into the game in late innings (typically seventh or later) when the game is on the line (i.e. a "high leverage" situation). That means he can be brought in when his team is leading or tied or behind. Examples: Jim Konstanty, Roy Face, Mike Marshall, Rich Gossage.
  • Closer: A reliever who is brought into the game, typically in the ninth inning or later, in a save situation (i.e. only when his team is ahead by three runs or less). Examples: any top reliever pitching today.
What still baffles me is that OOTP evidently allows for both stoppers and closers in certain situations. Shouldn't those roles be mutually exclusive?
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Old 01-06-2017, 12:52 PM   #45
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They are designed to be so but implementation is faulty. It is a bug.
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Old 01-06-2017, 02:52 PM   #46
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To what purpose? Maybe I'm just being dense, but, as you point out, the game already allows you to use closers and stoppers at the same time - you just don't want to use those settings. But if you use the "often" or "very often" settings for closer use, what would be the stopper's role? It seems like he'd just be a set-up man for the closer, and the game already has those. Or would the closer be the set-up man for the stopper? I am just not seeing how this would work out in practice.
The reason I want to do it is that I prefer the 'stopper' role to the closer role (not sure that I would actually mix them). I think it is counterproductive to use your best bullpen arm in the more limited role of closer and would like a bit more flexibility.

Why do I want both available? Because I play in mostly online leagues and not everyone likes the stopper role so if both are available then each can play their way.

I guess my question in return would be; Why not have both available? Does it break something? Under certain circumstances they are already both available, why not have them both available all the time?

Last edited by byzeil; 01-06-2017 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 01-06-2017, 07:18 PM   #47
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Why do I want both available? Because I play in mostly online leagues and not everyone likes the stopper role so if both are available then each can play their way.
OK, so you want each manager to have the option to use either a stopper or a closer. That makes a lot more sense.

I don't know how you do things in online leagues, but isn't there a way to designate whether your best reliever (call him what you will) comes into the game in a "high leverage" situation, whether or not it's a save situation? In other words, can't you use the guy that the game calls your "closer" more like a stopper, and vice versa?
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Old 01-06-2017, 11:47 PM   #48
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OK, so you want each manager to have the option to use either a stopper or a closer. That makes a lot more sense.

I don't know how you do things in online leagues, but isn't there a way to designate whether your best reliever (call him what you will) comes into the game in a "high leverage" situation, whether or not it's a save situation? In other words, can't you use the guy that the game calls your "closer" more like a stopper, and vice versa?
You have the same options that you have in solo play if you just sim the games. I could set the primary role to closer and secondary role to high leverage. In theory that could mimic the stopper role but when does the AI use the secondary roles? Easier and a little more sure if I can just set to stopper. Now one of the usage option for stopper is '8th inning and the lead' so that sounds a lot like closer. Again, you might be able to mimic the different roles but would be much easier if they just gave us the roles that are already there.
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:57 PM   #49
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The stopper role being dependent on the closer usage setting is ridiculous. If I want to run a 1970s-style bullpen in the modern day, I should have the ability to do so.
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