Competitive balance discussion

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by Maddox

It will be interesting to see how it pans out with another round of relegation and promotion because like your league there is nothing even remotely competitive about the divisions in my league. Here are the division leaders

AC WEST: 85-42 with a 17.5 game lead
AC CENTRAL: 81- 47 with a 17 game lead (I am 23 back)
AC EAST: 79-48 with a 14.5 game lead
NC WEST: 88-40 with a 20 game lead
NC CENTRAL: 81-47 with a 13 game lead (closest race)
NC EAST: 102-28 with a 29 game lead

The NC East team has a magic number of 5 already with more a full month to go. All these leaders are not completely stacked but probably the closest thing in common that they have is highly rated starting pitching.

Needless to say the only drama in my league will be for a wildcard. It is a shame that no 2nd place team really even has a chance with approximately 34 games still left to play

is that 'A' level? 5 of 6 divisions in my rookie league are single digit leads. I have the misfortune of being in the division with the top team (I'd be in first in 3 of the others, but that's how it goes... just ask the Yankees).

edit - woot! just bought a couple packs with the points I've slowly gained and landed Zack Wheeler (85)

[Janks]

The all lefty team clinched a playoff berth on 8/26 with a 97-32 record. I am 61-69 and 37 games back. There are only 5 teams above .500 in the conference.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by stl jason

is that 'A' level? 5 of 6 divisions in my rookie league are single digit leads.

Yes, This is A league. Here are the standings. One team has already clinched and another has a magic number of 4.

Kind of makes the league boring when nobody can even threaten any of the first place teams with a full month to go.

[Germaniac]

In my A league there are two extremely weak divisions in the AC with the division leaders below .500 while the 4th place team in the AC East would lead the other two divisions by 8 and 9 games, respectively

On my side it's a bit more balanced

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by Maddox

Yes, This is A league. Here are the standings. One team has already clinched and another has a magic number of 4.

Kind of makes the league boring when nobody can even threaten any of the first place teams with a full month to go.

yeah, can definitely see that.... hopefully as those power teams move out, the leagues start to balance out a bit and make them more competitive for all.

Originally Posted by Germaniac

In my A league there are two extremely weak divisions in the AC with the division leaders below .500 while the 4th place team in the AC East would lead the other two divisions by 8 and 9 games, respectively

On my side it's a bit more balanced

gotta be a bit frustrating to be that 4th place team with a record that would be leading 3 other divisions.... but we've seen similar in real life.


woke up this morning to find my boys have closed the gap to 2.5 games, with a 3 game series against 'em coming up next week.... actually have a winning record against them for the year (9-7) so we'll see how it goes (kinda funny of the 5 teams I have a losing record against, one of them is the worst team in the league... go figure )

[Clavette]

Originally Posted by Maddox

Yes, This is A league. Here are the standings. One team has already clinched and another has a magic number of 4.

Kind of makes the league boring when nobody can even threaten any of the first place teams with a full month to go.

I threw the towel in on the CT stripers in may and tried some low level fill in guys. Then I bought more pp yesterday. This league is also filled with people that started right as the game opened (hardcores) so I'm not surprised there is this much disparity in this league. I'm looking forward to not being promoted next week.

My mixed bronze/silver/gold team in another A league is killing it. 3rd overall but unfortunately looking at the top wild card spot. 6 games behind the #2 overall team in the league

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by Clavette

I threw the towel in on the CT stripers in may and tried some low level fill in guys. Then I bought more pp yesterday. This league is also filled with people that started right as the game opened (hardcores) so I'm not surprised there is this much disparity in this league. I'm looking forward to not being promoted next week.

My mixed bronze/silver/gold team in another A league is killing it. 3rd overall but unfortunately looking at the top wild card spot. 6 games behind the #2 overall team in the league

Looks like you and I had the same record when I posted that (I am the Winterfell Direwolves

I started day 1 at almost the moment it went live but my team still only has single gold with a a bunch of silver and bronze, and a few commons mixed in.

Pitching has been my downfall. With only one more week to go and only 4,000 accumulated PP I will probably just buy packs. Those point could probably buy me one upgraded pitcher but I need more than that to be competitive.

[Déjà Bru]

I'm not going to go through this thread to see if it's been talked through but I will leave this comment here.

The only potentially frustrating thing about PT is how one may buy his way to championships. The guy above me has 5 diamonds and 13 golds on his roster. Outside of some cunning auction work, I don't think we have been playing that long to accumulate the PP cost for this purely by F2P. Rather, am I under the correct assumption that people have been able to pay for PP if they are on Steam?

Look, I know how this works and I will probably indulge here and there. And the ironic thing is that I am ahead of other teams that have stocked up in diamonds and golds (I have one gold card). But the danger for PT is going to be when people get disillusioned seeing a team like that ahead by 14 games in August every season.

Don't turn this into a debate, now. It's been discussed already and it's not going to change (e.g., all F2P leagues). There is one saving grace in that promotion/regulation will sort things out and, if you forget you are in Single A, say, you can have considerable fun with a pennant chase on that level.

But I can see people getting frustrated in dealing with the high rollers of PT.

[Germaniac]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I'm not going to go through this thread to see if it's been talked through but I will leave this comment here.

The only potentially frustrating thing about PT is how one may buy his way to championships. The guy above me has 5 diamonds and 13 golds on his roster. Outside of some cunning auction work, I don't think we have been playing that long to accumulate the PP cost for this purely by F2P. Rather, am I under the correct assumption that people have been able to pay for PP if they are on Steam?

Look, I know how this works and I will probably indulge here and there. And the ironic thing is that I am ahead of other teams that have stocked up in diamonds and golds (I have one gold card). But the danger for PT is going to be when people get disillusioned seeing a team like that ahead by 14 games in August every season.

Don't turn this into a debate, now. It's been discussed already and it's not going to change (e.g., all F2P leagues). There is one saving grace in that promotion/regulation will sort things out and, if you forget you are in Single A, say, you can have considerable fun with a pennant chase on that level.

But I can see people getting frustrated in dealing with the high rollers of PT.

Well said. Guys will cheat, guys will basically buy championships ... but will they have the kind of fun others have without cheating or buying? Probably not.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I'm not going to go through this thread to see if it's been talked through but I will leave this comment here.

The only potentially frustrating thing about PT is how one may buy his way to championships. The guy above me has 5 diamonds and 13 golds on his roster. Outside of some cunning auction work, I don't think we have been playing that long to accumulate the PP cost for this purely by F2P. Rather, am I under the correct assumption that people have been able to pay for PP if they are on Steam?

Look, I know how this works and I will probably indulge here and there. And the ironic thing is that I am ahead of other teams that have stocked up in diamonds and golds (I have one gold card). But the danger for PT is going to be when people get disillusioned seeing a team like that ahead by 14 games in August every season.

Don't turn this into a debate, now. It's been discussed already and it's not going to change (e.g., all F2P leagues). There is one saving grace in that promotion/regulation will sort things out and, if you forget you are in Single A, say, you can have considerable fun with a pennant chase on that level.

But I can see people getting frustrated in dealing with the high rollers of PT.

Yes, Steam users were the first to be able to buy PP.

But I was also up by 14 games in August and didn't spend a coin. Okay, my division was not really… it was more like the AL Central.

[pstrickert]

No, Germaniac, but they can make it less fun for others.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Germaniac

Well said. Guys will cheat, guys will basically buy championships ... but will they have the kind of fun others have without cheating or buying? Probably not.

That said, though, I just took a look at the guy behind me. He's got 9 gold and 16 silver. I have 1 gold, 8 silver, 13 bronze, and 3 commons. Yet I am ahead of him by a game-and-a-half for the last wildcard on Sept. 25.

Because I chose my pitching very carefully, I believe, silver though they may be . . .

Anyway, Markus has said that you can win without spending your lungs in PT. But this will be the reality: If you DO spend your lungs, you will USUALLY be ahead of the game without much struggle.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Don't turn this into a debate, now. It's been discussed already and it's not going to change (e.g., all F2P leagues). There is one saving grace in that promotion/regulation will sort things out and, if you forget you are in Single A, say, you can have considerable fun with a pennant chase on that level.

I'd rather have fun in a competitive Single A league over getting stomped in higher leagues.

Higher leagues should not really pay out or give any extra rewardsover lower leagues so ego would be the only reason to strive for that league or feel like you are failing if you are not in it.

[Germaniac]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

No, Germaniac, but they can make it less fun for others.

Absolutely true. But each and everybody will have to find his way to enjoy this ... or completely drop out.

There will be guys who will be cheating and will be statisfied winning championships by doing so. Others will pay a fortune to accomplish the same.

But I think/hope the majority will get their satisfaction out of getting the best out of their cards without going down these roads.

I agree, the perfect thing would be if all of us would compete on an equal playing field, but that won't happen ... but that doesn't happen in OOTP online leagues, neither.

[Orcin]

I spent $20 on points when it became active on Steam. Does that make me a high roller?

I thought it was a good idea to reward OOTPD for developing this game that is giving me so much enjoyment. The $20 investment is only half the cost of the regular game and this add-on (which they have provided free) is well worth IMO.

It is getting a little old to be constantly made to feel like a cheater for spending money on the game. I get that not everyone has disposable income to throw around, but $20 is not a big amount to spend. It barely buys dinner and a drink at most sports bars.

So seriously... I want to know... is $20 what you consider a high roller? If not, where is that line exactly?

Is it really that game-breaking to open 25 packs or buy a couple of diamond cards on the AH? My roster contains 1 perfect and 1 diamond (both from packs). Is a couple of nice cards that you don't have really worth all this angst?

Here's something else to consider. You can't draw conclusions from someone's roster about how much money they spent or whether they cheated. You have no idea how many achievement points they earned or what cards they got from packs. You haven't seen their auction activity either. Maybe they are just good at the auction mini-game, or maybe they just got lucky with a couple of perfects or high diamonds.

Envy is running rampant on this forum. Maybe instead of ranting about how the game is ruined by PTP (before it is even released) we should spend our efforts working on strategies to win without paying. I intend to win at the top levels without regard to how much money other people spent. I plan to do it with smart play and hopefully some good luck. If I fail, so what? I will have a lot of fun trying.

Thanks for patiently listening to my rant. I am not directing this at any particular person or post or even this thread. I am responding to the constant flood of complaining about PTP.

I hope you will consider my question... how much is too much? Is spending $1 unfair? $5? $10? $20? $100? $1,000?

[Déjà Bru]

Orcin, I'd say no, you are not a high-roller for $20 for 1 perfect and 1 diamond card. I think somebody with 5 diamonds and 13 golds, or 9 diamonds and 16 golds at this point in beta has spent considerably more than that, wouldn't you?

I'm not saying NOT to spend money on PT. I plan to part with a few bucks myself. But I will never be in the same league, literally, with guys who have already spent a bundle like that and the game is only in beta!

So no, it's not about spending on PT. I am not advocating for F2P. I am merely pointing out a flaw in PT which is only relieved if one can have fun at Single A, permanently. That is what I am counting on.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I think somebody with 5 diamonds and 13 golds, or 9 diamonds and 16 golds at this point in beta has spent considerably more than that, wouldn't you?

That is certainly a reasonable assumption, but it would not be impossible at all to have 5 diamonds and 13 golds without spending any money. You could have that from 50-75K points if you were a smart shopper. One perfect pulled from a pack and instantly sold when the autosell price was 50K, plus some achievements, would get you there. I have kept a chart, and I have 30K points from achievements since the beta started. I don't think I am the luckiest guy here.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Orcin

That is certainly a reasonable assumption, but it would not be impossible at all to have 5 diamonds and 13 golds without spending any money. You could have that from 50-75K points if you were a smart shopper. One perfect pulled from a pack and instantly sold when the autosell price was 50K, plus some achievements, would get you there. I have kept a chart, and I have 30K points from achievements since the beta started. I don't think I am the luckiest guy here.

I'll take your word for it. I'm glad to see you so passionate about PT. I happen to like it myself, very much.

Heh, this is going to be funny if I close the wildcard door on the guy behind me with the 9 golds and 16 silvers. I'm still 1 1/2 up on Sept. 26 and it's going down to the wire. I think he'll pull it off, but we'll see.

P.S. - I just gave you your 5,000th thanks. Congratulations!

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Orcin, I'd say no, you are not a high-roller for $20 for 1 perfect and 1 diamond card. I think somebody with 5 diamonds and 13 golds, or 9 diamonds and 16 golds at this point in beta has spent considerably more than that, wouldn't you?

I'm not saying NOT to spend money on PT. I plan to part with a few bucks myself. But I will never be in the same league, literally, with guys who have already spent a bundle like that and the game is only in beta!

So no, it's not about spending on PT. I am not advocating for F2P. I am merely pointing out a flaw in PT which is only relieved if one can have fun at Single A, permanently. That is what I am counting on.

This has been said probably 100 times now, but there was a bug where players could open unlimited packs that took a few hours to fix. So there are likely a ton of teams that took advantage of that. Such as myself. I spent $0.

But it's a freaking beta so who gives a damn? The point is to try to find bugs for the devs to fix and to work on your strategies. My team is 120-38 this year and there are teams with better players than mine.

The most interesting thing about this game? Seeing completely unexpected results, such as the 77 OVR Mattingly in my league that is on the verge of winning the triple crown. He's hitting .349 with 46 HR and 153 RBI. He has a 45 RBI lead over the 2nd place guy. And his OPS is .318 points higher than the year before.

[pstrickert]

Here’s what I wonder. What if someone spends $100 to stack their team and, because of it, 20 people who would’ve spent $5 each drop out altogether before spending a dime? The same revenue is generated for OOTPD, but 20 potential players leave with a bad taste in their mouths. Who wins?