Competitive balance discussion

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

I've already earned more PP in a month of A-ball than I did in the last two or three months in Rookie league combined. I added a single player, Xander Bogaerts, and I'm going up against "better" competition, if we're judging by the number of 80+ ranked cards they have.

It's luck, plain and simple. I've beaten up on Diamond pitchers and gotten shut out by Bronze ones. You're getting overly obsessed with the idea that the league above yours is going to have a talent gap so wide that promoted teams won't be able to compete. But the volatility of baseball in general completely mitigates that.

I doubt your record is 5-23 though. And if point earnings are related to luck, then that would mean that the top teams would be earning no more than the bottom teams, and Markus wouldn't have felt the need to make the change that he did.

Over the course of a season volatility comes from injuries, ineffectiveness and young players suddenly blossoming. That wont happen here since players don't age or develop, and there are no injuries.

It sounds like the OP could literally have set up his initial lineup from his original cards, gone AFK for this season and the last one, and had more pp at the end of that than he will at the end of these two seasons when he (probably) really tried to put a good team out there. That's not how it should work IMHO.

There's still a month of Beta left though, right? We'll see how it looks at the end of it.

[Fyrestorm3]

Well yeah, better teams with better players have more chances to earn points, and that's how it should work. I probably shouldn't have said "it's luck" because that implies that it's ALL luck, when really luck is just a big factor.

I simply don't believe that the gap between "good" teams and "bad" ones is so monumental that it's impossible for a "bad" team to get better, no matter who they're facing.

[Whoofe]

Originally Posted by Whoofe

I earned less than 200 PPs the first month of new season, and am unable to improve my team. I guess going 5-23 will do that LOL

I do have a fair amount of silvers on my team, but they underperformed in April. hopefully the rest of the season i'll get a few lucky games

waiting to get demoted so I can get back to a moderate earning rate with teams my level

ok I won 5 of the next 6 games




most batters are positive WAR, even if by a smidgeon, except my gold RF. 3 of my 5 SPs have respectable, if perhaps slightly below average numbers, but its the 2 "aces" in silver that are awful, not the bronzes. and a couple of my RPs are awful and are being replaced by reserves.


so in all, I think its a lotta bad luck (and some possibly bad managerial changes) that I am 5-23, not terrible players compared to the league


tho there are more than a couple stacked teams to deal with, I measure up fairly well against at least half the league, I think

[zrog2000]

Keep in mind that for every person who feels they're not getting enough PP points due to bad luck, there are probably 10 people who aren't posting about how they feel like they are getting a decent amount of PP and have no complaints. I bet there are other people who feel like they're getting way too much and not complaining about it. Not everyone has the same exact experience.

If the devs listened only to complaints from people who have had bad luck instead of looking at the actual numbers for every single team, we'd have a way more unbalanced game.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

Keep in mind that for every person who feels they're not getting enough PP points due to bad luck, there are probably 10 people who aren't posting about how they feel like they are getting a decent amount of PP and have no complaints. I bet there are other people who feel like they're getting way too much and not complaining about it. Not everyone has the same exact experience.

If the devs listened only to complaints from people who have had bad luck instead of looking at the actual numbers for every single team, we'd have a way more unbalanced game.

This. ^

When I give anecdotes about the PP I'm earning, I'm not trying to say that I represent everyone playing the game. I'm saying that those crying foul because of getting fewer points also don't represent everyone playing the game. There's always going to be a spectrum.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

Keep in mind that for every person who feels they're not getting enough PP points due to bad luck, there are probably 10 people who aren't posting about how they feel like they are getting a decent amount of PP and have no complaints. I bet there are other people who feel like they're getting way too much and not complaining about it. Not everyone has the same exact experience.

If the devs listened only to complaints from people who have had bad luck instead of looking at the actual numbers for every single team, we'd have a way more unbalanced game.

There can be a wide discrepancy though. I posted a thread last week, on Friday, out of curiosity and while I did not get a ton of responses. It did confirm to me that I was not having great luck.


Me: 36 achievements - 1 silver
Response 1: 98 achievements - 6 silver and 2 gold
Response 2: 106 achievements - looks like several silvers and golds
Response 3: 65 achievements - no silver or gold
Response 4: 55 achievements - 6 silver
Response 5: 55 achievements - 7 silver and 1 gold
Response 6: 67 achievements - 7 silver
Response 7: 68 achievements - 3 silver and 1 gold
Response 8: 44 achievements - 1 silver


So not scientific or definitive but I was right when I thought I was having bad luck on the achievement front. And when you are in that string of bad luck it can get a little frustrating not earning enough to upgrade.

[One Post Wonder]

IMO in the current setup you have to play the market - relying strictly on achievement pp is like relying on wind power to provide ALL of your electricity. (Not that I have anything against wind power). It's not a really dependable source of income.

I was 19-10 the last time I checked and I seem to be doing well with achievements, but any pp I earn there is dwarfed by the pp I've gotten from auctioneering.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

IMO in the current setup you have to play the market - relying strictly on achievement pp is like relying on wind power to provide ALL of your electricity. (Not that I have anything against wind power). It's not a really dependable source of income.

I was 19-10 the last time I checked and I seem to be doing well with achievements, but any pp I earn there is dwarfed by the pp I've gotten from auctioneering.

I hope that is not true. One of the things that turned me off MLB: The Show this year was the fact that flipping cards on the market seemed to be almost a requirement to earn the stubs needed to keep upgrading.


Some people love doing that stuff. Not me.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

IMO in the current setup you have to play the market - relying strictly on achievement pp is like relying on wind power to provide ALL of your electricity. (Not that I have anything against wind power). It's not a really dependable source of income.

I was 19-10 the last time I checked and I seem to be doing well with achievements, but any pp I earn there is dwarfed by the pp I've gotten from auctioneering.

I haven't done that once, and I haven't spent a dime. I also have no diamond players yet but it hasn't hampered my ability to go up against a team with a few diamonds (obviously the super-stacked teams are the outliers).

[Matty86]

Originally Posted by Maddox

I hope that is not true. One of the things that turned me off MLB: The Show this year was the fact that flipping cards on the market seemed to be almost a requirement to earn the stubs needed to keep upgrading.


Some people love doing that stuff. Not me.

That's why I can never really get into that mode in The Show as well. I do enjoy occasionally flipping cards for fun, but having to rely on that so heavily for my PP/coins/whatever is a bit too much.

[genuvar]

Originally Posted by Maddox

There can be a wide discrepancy though. I posted a thread last week, on Friday, out of curiosity and while I did not get a ton of responses. It did confirm to me that I was not having great luck.


Me: 36 achievements - 1 silver
Response 1: 98 achievements - 6 silver and 2 gold
Response 2: 106 achievements - looks like several silvers and golds
Response 3: 65 achievements - no silver or gold
Response 4: 55 achievements - 6 silver
Response 5: 55 achievements - 7 silver and 1 gold
Response 6: 67 achievements - 7 silver
Response 7: 68 achievements - 3 silver and 1 gold
Response 8: 44 achievements - 1 silver


So not scientific or definitive but I was right when I thought I was having bad luck on the achievement front. And when you are in that string of bad luck it can get a little frustrating not earning enough to upgrade.

Im in the same boat as you. I havnt had a gold achievement yet and maybe 1 or 2 silver.. none so far this season.

[One Post Wonder]

I enjoy flipping cards. I'm a GM type rather than a manager type I guess, and my team punches above its weight because in the process of flipping, I've become familiar with all the cards and have some really underrated ones on my club. I've also earned enough money to get some legitimate stars and most importantly, build the type of club I want as opposed to a collection of high ratings.

But the point I'm getting to is, some of my trades have made me several thousand pp. That's one trade - and it's more than some people make in a season of play. There's no way someone earning just achievements will be able to compete with a flipper, any more than they'll be able to keep up with a pp buyer.

I don't think the weakness is in anything OOTP developments is doing, so much that this mode of play is always going to have these same problems. If you've made up your mind to keep it free and not play the market, then you have to curb your competitive instinct and just accept that you're going to progress very, very slowly up the ranks if at all. That's hard to do in a game.

[Matty86]

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

I enjoy flipping cards. I'm a GM type rather than a manager type I guess, and my team punches above its weight because in the process of flipping, I've become familiar with all the cards and have some really underrated ones on my club. I've also earned enough money to get some legitimate stars and most importantly, build the type of club I want as opposed to a collection of high ratings.

But the point I'm getting to is, some of my trades have made me several thousand pp. That's one trade - and it's more than some people make in a season of play. There's no way someone earning just achievements will be able to compete with a flipper, any more than they'll be able to keep up with a pp buyer.

I don't think the weakness is in anything OOTP developments is doing, so much that this mode of play is always going to have these same problems. If you've made up your mind to keep it free and not play the market, then you have to curb your competitive instinct and just accept that you're going to progress very, very slowly up the ranks if at all. That's hard to do in a game.

I just have a hell of a time figuring out what to start bids at and how to determine what a good card is to flip. The info isn't as easily accessible as it is in other games (not at the moment at least, maybe when the sections to show recent/average sales are turned on it will change).

[captainbuttercream]

Originally Posted by Matty86

I just have a hell of a time figuring out what to start bids at and how to determine what a good card is to flip. The info isn't as easily accessible as it is in other games (not at the moment at least, maybe when the sections to show recent/average sales are turned on it will change).

The easiest thing to do is to make your starting bid high enough that you will break even/come out slightly ahead after the auction house takes it's 10% cut. If you want to set a buy it now above what you think the card will actually go for just incase someone wants to pay a premium, go ahead.

I don't always worry about getting 'peak' value for cards because as long as I'm coming out ahead, the PP is more valuable than a card sitting in my reserve list. Maybe once I've fielded a team I'm fully satisfied with I'll worry about collecting, but for now I want to improve my on field team.

[Whoofe]

Originally Posted by Whoofe

I earned less than 200 PPs the first month of new season, and am unable to improve my team. I guess going 5-23 will do that LOL

I do have a fair amount of silvers on my team, but they underperformed in April. hopefully the rest of the season i'll get a few lucky games

waiting to get demoted so I can get back to a moderate earning rate with teams my level

my 5-23 start shored up to a 20-30 record near the end of May


starting pitching still awful. relief pitching solid now. lineup is... mediocre I guess

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by Matty86

I just have a hell of a time figuring out what to start bids at and how to determine what a good card is to flip. The info isn't as easily accessible as it is in other games (not at the moment at least, maybe when the sections to show recent/average sales are turned on it will change).

It's hard to give you a good answer to that since the market in the beta is so dynamic. A price that works today won't work tomorrow.

The preceding advice is good for some cards or some styles of play, like if you don't want to fiddle around too much. My way is that I look closely at what I've got and say, "Is this a good bronze, or silver, or gold that will punch above its weight in the market?". Does it have some quality, like exceptional speed, or control for a pitcher, that cards above its level might not have? Things like that.

That sounds boring, probably, or at least grindy. But it can make a big difference at times.

I like the auction part of the game just as it is. I love not having the data right there but instead collecting it manually and putting something out there based on impression. That's fun to me, and IMO that's what the whole text based management genre is all about - collecting and interpreting data yourself instead of just using the numbers that are given you.

But then again I'm a 'stats only' type of player. That way of thinking seems to line up with auctioneering.

[Germaniac]

This still is beta ... so I play it like Spring Training, trying a little bit of everything.

Okay, my team has been pretty successful so I probably have had more options (and still have), but I don't mind taking a "risk" just to find out how a feature works.

I hope this experience will be helpful when we get past beta

[Westheim]

Speaking of random luck; while I was gone now, my team went 11-1 which sounds like TONS of PP for me, right?

Nah. 600 PP. And that includes three All Star taps (300), an 8-game winning streak (175), a Player of the Week for Minnie The Man (100), and only *one* in-game achievement, Lorenzo Cain knocking out four base hits for 25.

[pher431]

My team is 49-60 and I got 860 PP for the whole month of July where I was 11-16 for the month. 400 to 500 PP a day is unheard of for my team.

[Echo127]

Originally Posted by pher431

My team is 49-60 and I got 860 PP for the whole month of July where I was 11-16 for the month. 400 to 500 PP a day is unheard of for my team.

Playing in a league that has teams with crappy pitching does wonders for your PP earning rate. I was promoted after the first season, but I wouldnt be surprised if my league (Ny Eta) is the weakest promoted league out there. Last I checked there were only 3 diamonds in the entire league