Who would you draft pt.2

GmOfTheYear · 04-28-2018, 01:44 PM

Well I have a much more interesting decision this time around. Since its well the number one pick. We have 2 very interesting highschool players. The shortstop has great work ethic and intelligence and is 17. The sp is 18 and has low intelligence. Osa has the SS at 77 potential out of 80 and my scout has the SS at 80/80. The osa has the SP at 70/80 and my scout has him at 80/80

Here are the screen shots and this time I will draft whoever has the most votes for. And like last time in 10 years or so we can see who ended up better.

Here we go.
Edit: Osa has the SS's dp rating at 67. So his actual dp rating is probably higher than 47/100

NoOne · 04-28-2018, 01:57 PM

i'd roll the dice on the SP.. more upside this time. it would depend on his velo increasing to at elast 94-96, preferably 95-97. if it jumps up to that range he'll be >80/80 stuff. the sinker would be a 'blue' quality and slider will might make it to "light blue" (or at least a healthy bump up from ~average) color-coded pitch type, if he gets enoug velo increases. i could see this guy being one of the top k/9 sp in league, easily.

that SS won't much of a hitter. his babip rating is almost assuredly sub 1/2 scale. maybe a .260-.270 guy with ~20hr. the SP has a higher ceiling but more of a risk. you can find that readily in FA and not too expensive.

*assumes accurate ratings, which is all you can do.

GmOfTheYear · 04-28-2018, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

i'd roll the dice on the SP.. more upside this time. it would depend on his velo increasing to at elast 94-96, preferably 95-97. if it jumps up to that range he'll be >80/80 stuff. the sinker would be a 'blue' quality and slider will might make it to "light blue" (or at least a healthy bump up from ~average) color-coded pitch type, if he gets enoug velo increases. i could see this guy being one of the top k/9 sp in league, easily.

that SS won't much of a hitter. his babip rating is almost assuredly sub 1/2 scale. maybe a .260-.270 guy with ~20hr. the SP has a higher ceiling but more of a risk.

if i was SP-prospect rich, i coud see a context of taking the SS, though.

*assumes accurate ratings, which is all you can do.

Good stuff as always appreciate it. Will still tally votes from others but good stuff my man.

timmermac · 04-28-2018, 02:06 PM

This one's a lot closer for me. The shortstop could be an interesting hitter, I like the OBP potential, but a position change is a possibility. I could also see him at third or second. I also like the pitcher's repertoire, but his stamina could be a bit of an issue.

NoOne · 04-28-2018, 02:14 PM

heh, you got me while i editted

add a poll and it can tally it for you.

GmOfTheYear · 04-28-2018, 02:17 PM

One question I have is does the players personality come into play here? Or since its the first pick, talent is all that matters? Because the SS has great work ethic and intelligence and the SP has low intelligence. As far as I know intelligence determines how fast a players moves up the minors. So I was thinking that SS can make the minors quicker and maybe hit his potential more times than the low intelligence guy?

Overkill · 04-28-2018, 02:49 PM

The shortstop. Although, he looks more like a 3B to me with those defensive ratings. Not as much power as you would like out of a 3B, but that OBP could be ridiculous.

I do see that he has a higher rating at LF. What are the OF ratings?

SP seems Fragile as well.

GmOfTheYear · 04-28-2018, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overkill

The shortstop. Although, he looks more like a 3B to me with those defensive ratings. Not as much power as you would like out of a 3B, but that OBP could be ridiculous.

I do see that he has a higher rating at LF. What are the OF ratings?

SP seems Fragile as well.

I'll edit the op but I just want to say osa has his dp rating at 67. My scout has his of ratings as 77 range, 68 error, 91 arm

ThePretender · 04-28-2018, 06:29 PM

I'm not sure the SP develops all his pitches. I see him more as a RP. I know he has a lot of pitches but I don't trust at least 2 of the pitches to fill out, and the slider isn't a good enough third pitch if he doesn't have a fourth pitch so I wouldn't draft him. The bat is interesting, so the question is how good a defender he is at SS.

damientheomen3 · 04-29-2018, 02:14 AM

The odds that the SP develops his changeup is really, really slim. I actually wish OOTP would stop creating so many of these pitchers, it feels like an exploit going against the AI and knowing to avoid those guys at the top of the draft (but I usually play with 100% accurate ratings these days). The SS doesn't look all that great either, tough draft to have the #1 pick in.

NoOne · 04-29-2018, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmOfTheYear

One question I have is does the players personality come into play here? Or since its the first pick, talent is all that matters? Because the SS has great work ethic and intelligence and the SP has low intelligence. As far as I know intelligence determines how fast a players moves up the minors. So I was thinking that SS can make the minors quicker and maybe hit his potential more times than the low intelligence guy?

heh, didn't even look. and i thought that was 20-80 on the ratings ... lol i wasn't even smoking anything!

the way i look at it is per quality range... upper-tier i'll let workethic/intelligence be a tie-breaker type idea. maybe 71-80 or something.. i let context dictate. i don't worry too much about the other personality traits. those are the 2 correlated to improved developement.

what the pretender and damientheomen said is also something i overlooked.. at 18, i'm not as worried as a college kid though. most 18 year olds start with low current stuff per pitch. 1/x is disconcerting though.

while it's closer, i'd still go sp.. but nowhere near as certain as i was in the first post.

oh god, those are #1 pick choices? LoL... maybe 20ish in a better draft. # of rounds*teams makes a difference on depth.

i bet the babip rating under-the-hood is 80/200 or there abouts for the SS. that's a tough sell if it's accurate on the power/avoid k's ratings.

Clavette · 04-29-2018, 07:16 AM

Short stop. Work ethic and intelligence is more attractive to me

ThePretender · 04-29-2018, 08:14 AM

I'd probably want to see some of the other eligible players as well.

CurlyKarkovice · 04-29-2018, 08:15 AM

Draft the position player SS with Good Work Ethic for sure. I've noticed high work ethic translates to hitting full potential more often than not.

Upside is there on the Lefty Pitcher but FRAGILE is the red flag. How I look at it is they can't become a star sitting on the DL or only throwing 120 innings a year.

Good luck would love to see an update posted a few years down the line!

r0nster · 04-29-2018, 10:31 AM

for me it would depend on the draft if it has plenty of solid pitchers or hitters. As for my league the pitching prospects are usually in plenty but very few good hitters. So in my case I would draft the hitter and go for the pitching the rest of the way

Qeltar · 04-29-2018, 05:28 PM

"Fragile" on a pitcher is a deal-breaker for me. No brainer, end of discussion.

Damned guys already get hurt just riding in a taxi to the park.

NoOne · 04-29-2018, 09:27 PM

lol they convinced me.. hard to do..

just shows how many factors you have to look at when you make a choice. i had tunnel vision on the ratings. i still think that's a really weak offensive player for #1 pick though. not much you can do if it's a weak draft class, i guess.

i think both would have trade value as long as you tried to trade the SP early in career.

Timofmars · 05-02-2018, 11:47 AM

I would take the position player.

If the SP developed fully, he'd be just about the top ranking pitcher in my game, in part because of the extreme GB pitching, and then also ability to hold runners. His 5 pitches might help make him more likely to be still be decent if some pitches fail to develop. But his chances of developing are really hindered by the poor intelligence and the fragile injury history. Any injuries will slow his development and risk causing reduction in his potential, and then he'll be on the disabled list more if he makes it to the ML too.

The SS's offensive abilities would be just a bit short of the elite superstars if he fully developed, according to my formulas. He'd have an amazing OBP, though nearly half of the time he'll be on base would be from a walk, I think. So I think you wouldn't bat him behind someone who is a threat to steal, since a steal there is likely to be for nothing if he walks so much. He'd make a great 3B, but could play anywhere in the infield, and maybe the outfield if we could see his stats there, so that flexibility could give him a home on any team.

But best of all, he is most likely to develop well with both high work ethic and intelligence.

SR000 · 05-07-2018, 10:20 PM

I'd go for the pitcher. He has higher upside. The SS is ideally a thirdbaseman and he isn't going to get any faster. His gap isn't great so if his power doesn't develop you just have a pesky guy at the bottom of the lineup. Plus I think the pitcher is further along. He should be able to put up some decent stats in the rookie leagues right away.

Reggie · 05-08-2018, 06:42 PM

I have started avoiding fragile players whenever possible. Seems like I can always count on them being hurt for at LEAST 3 months at a time.. probably during the tail end of a pennant chase. If it wasn't for that I would go for the SP because I don't ever feel like I have enough pitching...ever.

04-28-2018, 01:57 PM	#2
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	i'd roll the dice on the SP.. more upside this time. it would depend on his velo increasing to at elast 94-96, preferably 95-97. if it jumps up to that range he'll be >80/80 stuff. the sinker would be a 'blue' quality and slider will might make it to "light blue" (or at least a healthy bump up from ~average) color-coded pitch type, if he gets enoug velo increases. i could see this guy being one of the top k/9 sp in league, easily. that SS won't much of a hitter. his babip rating is almost assuredly sub 1/2 scale. maybe a .260-.270 guy with ~20hr. the SP has a higher ceiling but more of a risk. you can find that readily in FA and not too expensive. assumes accurate ratings, which is all you can do. Last edited by NoOne; 04-28-2018 at 02:05 PM.*

04-28-2018, 02:06 PM	#4
timmermac Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 449	This one's a lot closer for me. The shortstop could be an interesting hitter, I like the OBP potential, but a position change is a possibility. I could also see him at third or second. I also like the pitcher's repertoire, but his stamina could be a bit of an issue. __________________ Running with the 1950 Braves. Crush the baseball. Drive it before you. And hear the lamentation of the opponent's women. I am king of the diamond! Let there be a grand clubhouse feast! Bring me the finest meats and cheeses in all the land!

04-28-2018, 02:49 PM	#7
Overkill Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 195	The shortstop. Although, he looks more like a 3B to me with those defensive ratings. Not as much power as you would like out of a 3B, but that OBP could be ridiculous. I do see that he has a higher rating at LF. What are the OF ratings? SP seems Fragile as well. __________________ Check out my blog. I've had opinions for a long time, but never really voiced them so I thought I'd give it a shot to see if other people agree. If you read, please feel free to comment. MLB Theorem

04-28-2018, 06:29 PM	#9
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,303	I'm not sure the SP develops all his pitches. I see him more as a RP. I know he has a lot of pitches but I don't trust at least 2 of the pitches to fill out, and the slider isn't a good enough third pitch if he doesn't have a fourth pitch so I wouldn't draft him. The bat is interesting, so the question is how good a defender he is at SS. Last edited by ThePretender; 04-28-2018 at 06:34 PM.

05-02-2018, 11:47 AM	#18
Timofmars Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 251	I would take the position player. If the SP developed fully, he'd be just about the top ranking pitcher in my game, in part because of the extreme GB pitching, and then also ability to hold runners. His 5 pitches might help make him more likely to be still be decent if some pitches fail to develop. But his chances of developing are really hindered by the poor intelligence and the fragile injury history. Any injuries will slow his development and risk causing reduction in his potential, and then he'll be on the disabled list more if he makes it to the ML too. The SS's offensive abilities would be just a bit short of the elite superstars if he fully developed, according to my formulas. He'd have an amazing OBP, though nearly half of the time he'll be on base would be from a walk, I think. So I think you wouldn't bat him behind someone who is a threat to steal, since a steal there is likely to be for nothing if he walks so much. He'd make a great 3B, but could play anywhere in the infield, and maybe the outfield if we could see his stats there, so that flexibility could give him a home on any team. But best of all, he is most likely to develop well with both high work ethic and intelligence. Last edited by Timofmars; 05-02-2018 at 11:48 AM.

04-28-2018, 01:44 PM	#1
GmOfTheYear Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 402	Who would you draft pt.2 Well I have a much more interesting decision this time around. Since its well the number one pick. We have 2 very interesting highschool players. The shortstop has great work ethic and intelligence and is 17. The sp is 18 and has low intelligence. Osa has the SS at 77 potential out of 80 and my scout has the SS at 80/80. The osa has the SP at 70/80 and my scout has him at 80/80 Here are the screen shots and this time I will draft whoever has the most votes for. And like last time in 10 years or so we can see who ended up better. Here we go. Edit: Osa has the SS's dp rating at 67. So his actual dp rating is probably higher than 47/100 Attached Images Last edited by GmOfTheYear; 04-28-2018 at 02:54 PM.

04-28-2018, 02:14 PM	#5
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	heh, you got me while i editted add a poll and it can tally it for you.

04-28-2018, 02:17 PM	#6
GmOfTheYear Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 402	One question I have is does the players personality come into play here? Or since its the first pick, talent is all that matters? Because the SS has great work ethic and intelligence and the SP has low intelligence. As far as I know intelligence determines how fast a players moves up the minors. So I was thinking that SS can make the minors quicker and maybe hit his potential more times than the low intelligence guy?

04-29-2018, 07:16 AM	#12
Clavette Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Connecticut Posts: 371	Short stop. Work ethic and intelligence is more attractive to me

04-29-2018, 08:14 AM	#13
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,303	I'd probably want to see some of the other eligible players as well.

04-29-2018, 08:15 AM	#14
CurlyKarkovice Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 231	Draft the position player SS with Good Work Ethic for sure. I've noticed high work ethic translates to hitting full potential more often than not. Upside is there on the Lefty Pitcher but FRAGILE is the red flag. How I look at it is they can't become a star sitting on the DL or only throwing 120 innings a year. Good luck would love to see an update posted a few years down the line!

04-29-2018, 10:31 AM	#15
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,002	for me it would depend on the draft if it has plenty of solid pitchers or hitters. As for my league the pitching prospects are usually in plenty but very few good hitters. So in my case I would draft the hitter and go for the pitching the rest of the way

04-29-2018, 05:28 PM	#16
Qeltar Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 382	"Fragile" on a pitcher is a deal-breaker for me. No brainer, end of discussion. Damned guys already get hurt just riding in a taxi to the park.

04-29-2018, 09:27 PM	#17
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	lol they convinced me.. hard to do.. just shows how many factors you have to look at when you make a choice. i had tunnel vision on the ratings. i still think that's a really weak offensive player for #1 pick though. not much you can do if it's a weak draft class, i guess. i think both would have trade value as long as you tried to trade the SP early in career.

05-07-2018, 10:20 PM	#19
SR000 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 57	P I'd go for the pitcher. He has higher upside. The SS is ideally a thirdbaseman and he isn't going to get any faster. His gap isn't great so if his power doesn't develop you just have a pesky guy at the bottom of the lineup. Plus I think the pitcher is further along. He should be able to put up some decent stats in the rookie leagues right away.

05-08-2018, 06:42 PM	#20
Reggie Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 442	I have started avoiding fragile players whenever possible. Seems like I can always count on them being hurt for at LEAST 3 months at a time.. probably during the tail end of a pennant chase. If it wasn't for that I would go for the SP because I don't ever feel like I have enough pitching...ever.