Pinch Hitters

[sreem]

I was wondering if anyone knows if the game is coded to give pinch hitters a disadvantage?

I'm just wondering because it seems like a guy coming off the bench shouldn't actually hit to his "under the hood" rating because that is based on a full season of AB's right?

Thanks for any insight!

[battists]

As far as I am aware, there is no such coding. An at bat is an at bat.


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[Padreman]

Since they don't play as often, maybe "rust" plays a part. OOTP team has stated several times that "rust" is in the game

[sreem]

Originally Posted by Padreman

Since they don't play as often, maybe "rust" plays a part. OOTP team has stated several times that "rust" is in the game

Right, I forgot about rust. I'm not sure I've ever seen or nailed down exactly how quickly it accumulates, but hopefully that is the case.

It is of course only my opinion that pinch hitters shouldn't hit as well as regulars, but I am trying to get a gauge of this. I've got a couple of starters on my NL team that are solid #2 and #3 guys in the rotation, and for pitchers don't hit too bad, but I want to make good decisions as I play out every one of my games.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by battists

As far as I am aware, there is no such coding. An at bat is an at bat.


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I'm quite sure the bhoys have said that the game engine accounts for pinch hitters. To me that means pinch hitters will suffer a reduction in relative ratings.

[Number4]

Don't pinch-hitters usually bat against later inning relievers and therefore automatically get worse stats?

[risp2out]

It would be interesting if the game designated a very small number of outstanding pinch hitters, a la Manny Mota with the Dodgers of the 60s and 70s. In real life, there do seem to have been a small number of hitters who dramatically outperform the norm while pinch hitting. It would be kind of fun to try to ferret out who they are.

[Number4]

I guess the same guys that were bad at pinch-hitting, but had just more luck in their limited at bats, or were used in situations that suit them better?
I don't think someone who is good at hitting baseballs will be bad if he comes from the bench or vice versa. I believe "skill" at pinch-hitting would be a minimum of actual physical or psychological difference between human beings and a lot of luck.

[TheXumaker]

In one of my leagues I had a player who played every position but Catcher so I had him back up every position and he had many pinch hitting chances. He was hitting over .400 in 150 AB's so I gave him the starting spot at Shortstop but by the end of the season his averaged dropped down to .330(which is still amazing!)

[MrBojangles]

I had figured that pinch hitters are your strong reserve bats (i.e. you don't put your lousy batter up to pinch hit, you put the best guy on your bench). He also has the advantage of rust and health and using the batting cages during the game, since he's not playing. I always thought they should do better than the day in day out batters. Guess I was wrong.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

I had figured that pinch hitters are your strong reserve bats (i.e. you don't put your lousy batter up to pinch hit, you put the best guy on your bench). He also has the advantage of rust and health and using the batting cages during the game, since he's not playing. I always thought they should do better than the day in day out batters. Guess I was wrong.

In 2015 pinch hitters batted 0.219 vs 0.254 in all MLB. I think that difference has been around for decades in baseball.

Reserve players are not often strong bats. They aren't good enough to start so most are used for their defense.

[MrBojangles]

Originally Posted by RchW

In 2015 pinch hitters batted 0.219 vs 0.254 in all MLB. I think that difference has been around for decades in baseball.

Reserve players are not often strong bats. They aren't good enough to start so most are used for their defense.

I don't know you so I have no reason to argue the fact you present.

However, if that is true, than what is the point of bringing in a pinch hitter? Why bring in a weaker batter specifically at a critical point in the game?

[pgjocki]

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

I don't know you so I have no reason to argue the fact you present.

However, if that is true, than what is the point of bringing in a pinch hitter? Why bring in a weaker batter specifically at a critical point in the game?

In the National League it's almost always for a pitcher who most assuredly doesn't have a .250+ batting average.

Otherwise it's to counter or force the other manager to pull a pitcher to get a favorable match up.

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[The Wolf]

Pinch hitters are supposed to hit at a disadvantage.

https://mglbaseball.com/category/designated-hitters/

[Number4]

Are supposed - or maybe the whole reason why they are on the bench and therefore available for pinch-hitting is a slump or minor injury? Pinch-hit at bats and starting lineup at bats are not equal, you should not expect same performance there.
Also, why are guys DHing? Some are full time DH, some are used there on a part-time basis, again a minor injury could mean they should not field, but can bat decently and therefore will be used there, but won't hit as well as usually.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by MrBojangles

I don't know you so I have no reason to argue the fact you present.

However, if that is true, than what is the point of bringing in a pinch hitter? Why bring in a weaker batter specifically at a critical point in the game?

The weaker batter may have a platoon advantage and/or might be able to sacrifice. Your question is good though; pinch hitting is rare in the AL (as you said why bother) and typically used to replace pitchers in the NL.

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by RchW

The weaker batter may have a platoon advantage and/or might be able to sacrifice.

Another reason one might sometimes pinch hit other than for a pitcher is that a team's backup 1B or corner outfielder will a fair amount of the time be a better hitter than the starting SS or C, especially if the SS or C is starting largely due his defensive ability and/or the backup 1B/LF/RF is not a starter partly because he's an awful defender.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Number4

Are supposed - or maybe the whole reason why they are on the bench and therefore available for pinch-hitting is a slump or minor injury? Pinch-hit at bats and starting lineup at bats are not equal, you should not expect same performance there.
Also, why are guys DHing? Some are full time DH, some are used there on a part-time basis, again a minor injury could mean they should not field, but can bat decently and therefore will be used there, but won't hit as well as usually.

Did you read the article?

[NoOne]

FYI: Rust doesn't accrue if they are on the 25-man roster. you can find such a statment by an ootp rep of some sort in the forums.

i have a problem with that article's methodology and or need more infor about how they collected data.

did they only compare pinch hits to the 1st ab of the game? i would argue it's comparing apples to oranges to use 2nd plus ABs and compare them to a 1st AB of another person. this also significantly increases the sample size required for a reputable average(s).

did they account for skill and age differences of a PH and DH relative to the samples used to determine the baseline figures?

park factors?

baseball era?

blah blah blah... ignore enough of these and the results of their research becomes meaningless. here's a parrallel: ~90% of all initial scientific studies are not repeatable - i.e. they are wrong/false/a lie fill in for context of situation. what's that mean? even someone trained to employ the scientific method is generally terrible at it. doing the actual math pales in comparison to the complexities of setting up good research/experiements/tests/whatever.

i believe with some players, the mental thing is defintely real. weak-willed and the young are more likely to fall prey to it. if 3 hours is too long for them to pay attention, they are simpletons.

[Number4]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Did you read the article?

Yes. That's the second time you pester me with this question. If you disagree with me, that does not mean that I have not educated myself, I just draw differing conclusions.