Why Isn't Trading An Option?

[The Game]

I have several good to great middle IF but feel that auctioning one or more off to buy a SP might not be worth it. I would love to trade 2 of these guys for an ace.

[vyshka]

Most likely because it would be close to impossible for them to police.

[BoofBonser26]

Incredibly easy for people to cheat (tons of players running around with multiple teams, and some people would try to funnel all their good players to their best team - heck, people try that right now as it is - trading would just make it easier).

Auctioning from strength to get PP to fill holes is the way to go based on the game as currently constructed.

[Ty Cobb]

Absolutely correct. The corruption level would go off the scale.

[Dogberry99]

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...8&postcount=49

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Essentially, transferring PP via the auction house per se is illegal. Transferring cards is not, if there is no buy-now price so other users do indeed get a chance to bid on the card. A proper auction length is also needed (12h minimum). So, it needs to be fair.

Actually, trading cards is legal under some certain conditions.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...8&postcount=49



Actually, trading cards is legal under some certain conditions.

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Essentially, transferring PP via the auction house per se is illegal. Transferring cards is not, if there is no buy-now price so other users do indeed get a chance to bid on the card. A proper auction length is also needed (12h minimum). So, it needs to be fair.


Where do you read that you can trade cards here? To transfer a card you must meet these two conditions, per Markus in this statement.

!. There must not be a buy now price.
2.12 hr minimum auction length

[Thalion]

I guess it's trading if the players can clear waivers first (other people have a chance to bid on them).

[Dogberry99]

Maybe I'm using to broad a definition of trade here. My point was that it is both possible and legal to move cards deliberately from one user's account to another. You are correct that a direct trade is not possible.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by The Game

I have several good to great middle IF but feel that auctioning one or more off to buy a SP might not be worth it. I would love to trade 2 of these guys for an ace.

Isn't selling two middle infielders and using the proceeds to buy an ace the same thing? It sounds like your concern is that you can't get enough via auction to buy the ace. I don't see why you think a trade scenario would result in a different outcome.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Essentially, transferring PP via the auction house per se is illegal. Transferring cards is not, if there is no buy-now price so other users do indeed get a chance to bid on the card. A proper auction length is also needed (12h minimum). So, it needs to be fair.


Where do you read that you can trade cards here? To transfer a card you must meet these two conditions, per Markus in this statement.

!. There must not be a buy now price.
2.12 hr minimum auction length

That's just a ridiculous rule that cannot be enforced IMO. Why make it 10 times more restrictive than people who sell cards on the AH without a trade? Every auction needs the same rules or else it cannot work.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

That's just a ridiculous rule that cannot be enforced IMO. Why make it 10 times more restrictive than people who sell cards on the AH without a trade? Every auction needs the same rules or else it cannot work.

There is a huge difference in someone anonymously posting a trade to an anonymous group, than two people or two teams singly owned making an under the table deal to circumvent all other players. This violates any concept of fairness.

If you cannot or will not understand the corruption that would take place with free reign trading, then nobody can explain it. So we have to fall back on, "because it is the rule"

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

There is a huge difference in someone anonymously posting a trade to an anonymous group, than two people or two teams singly owned making an under the table deal to circumvent all other players. This violates any concept of fairness.

If you cannot or will not understand the corruption that would take place with free reign trading, then nobody can explain it. So we have to fall back on, "because it is the rule"

I understand it completely, but how do you stop two people from talking online or offline to know it's even happening in the first place? There are more places to discuss trades than publicly on OOTP forums and the OOTP discord. And you don't even have to link your accounts anyway. So all this rule will do is make it so someone creates a new discord id, posts "WTT diamond historical SP for diamond historical SS, PST me".

And then what will OOTP mods do without knowing that a deal was made, who was involved or when it will be made x days later? They're going to know that a guy who put some random card on the AH for 15 minutes with a reasonable BIN price was breaking the rules? How exactly?

The only thing this rule does is either stop honest players or force shady players into the shadows. Fairness for all will not be achieved unless all auctions have the same rules.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

I understand it completely, but how do you stop two people from talking online or offline to know it's even happening in the first place? There are more places to discuss trades than publicly on OOTP forums and the OOTP discord. And you don't even have to link your accounts anyway. So all this rule will do is make it so someone creates a new discord id, posts "WTT diamond historical SP for diamond historical SS, PST me".

And then what will OOTP mods do without knowing that a deal was made, who was involved or when it will be made x days later? They're going to know that a guy who put some random card on the AH for 15 minutes with a reasonable BIN price was breaking the rules? How exactly?

The only thing this rule does is either stop honest players or force shady players into the shadows. Fairness for all will not be achieved unless all auctions have the same rules.

It is not my problem to figure out how to police it, but the first thing I would do is start watching the people that defend doing it so strongly. It is also quite easy to start tracking all short auctions for repeat sellers and buyers. This would be a good place to start. I am not a programmer. but a civil engineer. So, I very well know the whole world works on mathematics. So, I would think it can be done fairly easily if the programmer can figure out the code.

The only question worth answering for yourself is, "Do I want to do this bad enough to risk banning?" Not saying that you are doing it just using the word you universally.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Kushiel

It is not my problem to figure out how to police it, but the first thing I would do is start watching the people that defend doing it so strongly. It is also quite easy to start tracking all short auctions for repeat sellers and buyers. This would be a good place to start. I am not a programmer. but a civil engineer. So, I very well know the whole world works on mathematics. So, I would think it can be done fairly easily if the programmer can figure out the code.

The only question worth answering for yourself is, "Do I want to do this bad enough to risk banning?" Not saying that you are doing it just using the word you universally.

I have no desire to even find anyone to trade cards with, let alone come close to trying to accomplish it. I don't have the patience and don't even think it would be an effective way to game the system anyway even if it were allowed. I barely even sell cards that I upgraded because I'm too lazy to put them on the AH.

I just think this is going too far. What will get banned next? What if someone wanted to give money to someone else to buy PP? Isn't that almost the same thing? One team colluding to help another team? (I know that wouldn't get banned)

I don't think having rules in place that are confusing and very hard to enforce is a good setup. In fact, I don't even know how you'd notify everyone playing the game that didn't read this thread.

[Westheim]

Why are we now leaving out the second post from this afternoon?

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Well, it is a bit of a grey area really. If you transfer cards between accounts only occasionally and use buy-now prices with a fair average market value, then we won't stop you.

[Thalion]

What second post?

[Westheim]

The one I quoted is the second post clarifying (?) the rules on dealing cards to specific players. Only the first one was quoted above.

[Thalion]

Ah, got it. Thanks. I thought a post was deleted.

[Janks]

Hasn't the AH been changed so you can't even bid on an auction from another account that you own?

[Thalion]

The discussion now revolves around two different people arranging deals prior to posting on the AH, I believe.