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Old 03-25-2019, 01:30 PM   #141
Markus Heinsohn
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OK, I think this thread has slowly run its course, right?

In a nutshell, the main problem is that everybody has their pet peeve issues they would like to see improved or fixed, but we have not found time yet to get to it. Please keep reporting them in the bugs report forum or the suggestions forum, that is very helpful and we'll get to them one day (unless it's a really stupid idea or simply too much work with not enough benefit for the big majority of users).

Thanks for your support!
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:50 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Just FYI - here are the current patch notes for the upcoming one (Tuesday or Wednesday):

20.1
- Fixed rare crash in CPBL compensation
- Fixed players being backups twice at a position
- Added exit velocity to game logs, spray chart
- Fixed description when releasing rule 5 picks
- Fixed draft picks not being elligble to be dealt in some cases
- Fixed multiple live start issues: no more zero stats, wrong boxscore parsing, incorrect team runs values
- Fixed issues when alternating between watching multiple games/viewing spray charts
- Added hint text to spray charts on click
- Fixed bug in large playoff brackets
- Fixed bug that caused injuries to be enabled when checking historical transactions after league creation
- Tweaked several financial numbers for teams in international leagues in the default game
- Fixed light background for PbP in classic skin & classic 2D game view
- Added a system out of memory protection mecanism to save game progress before any risk of memory usage game crash
- Fixed leagues with foreigner restrictions by taking into account the secondary nations of players when making the foreigner checks
- Fixed issues when alternating between watching multiple games/viewing spray charts
- Added hint text to spray charts on click
- Fixed relievers showing up in qualified SP bucket
- Fixed bug in large playoff brackets
- Adjusted trade logic for superstars, financial considerations
- Fixed notifications appearing while playing out games
- Fixed mismatch between scouting reports
- Fixed pennant chase percents
- Fixed AI pitch limits in KBO, ***, and other foreign leagues
- Error message if the preseason prediction report fails to run instead of just showing 1 game for each team
- PT: Tweaked label for sold cards that got sold / bought via "Buy Now"
- PT: Updated various cards & missing pictures, for example Bryce Harper
- PT: Fixed crash for cards list when owning more than 8,192 cards. Now only the top 8,000 will be shown, depending on sort / filter.
- PT: Fixed problems for users logging in when they have > 10,000 cards and a slow internet connection
This is good stuff! Well done.
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:55 PM   #143
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Also everyone should enable the feature to report usage back to OOTP. This would greatly help as well.
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:22 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
OK, I think this thread has slowly run its course, right?

In a nutshell, the main problem is that everybody has their pet peeve issues they would like to see improved or fixed, but we have not found time yet to get to it. Please keep reporting them in the bugs report forum or the suggestions forum, that is very helpful and we'll get to them one day (unless it's a really stupid idea or simply too much work with not enough benefit for the big majority of users).

Thanks for your support!
The main issue as I see it is that the development team knew there were very few fixes or additions to the game this year and refused to provide a new features list because of this. It is extremely apparent this is what happened and now there is an 8-page thread related to this shady practice.

I think many people would have been content with “this is a transition year while we work on HUGE stuff for OOTP 21” but instead we were intentionally deceived as evident by the refusal to release a features list before launch.

This has nothing to do with people’s desire to get “their” wishes into the game, it has everything to do with customers wanting the satisfaction of knowing their money was well spent. Right now there are a lot of questions and I think we need answers as to why the feature list was not released.
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:31 PM   #145
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The main issue as I see it is that the development team knew there were very few fixes or additions to the game this year and refused to provide a new features list because of this. It is extremely apparent this is what happened and now there is an 8-page thread related to this shady practice.

I think many people would have been content with “this is a transition year while we work on HUGE stuff for OOTP 21” but instead we were intentionally deceived as evident by the refusal to release a features list before launch.

This has nothing to do with people’s desire to get “their” wishes into the game, it has everything to do with customers wanting the satisfaction of knowing their money was well spent. Right now there are a lot of questions and I think we need answers as to why the feature list was not released.
The feature list was posted February 26th.
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:33 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Poweshow View Post
The main issue as I see it is that the development team knew there were very few fixes or additions to the game this year and refused to provide a new features list because of this. It is extremely apparent this is what happened and now there is an 8-page thread related to this shady practice.

I think many people would have been content with “this is a transition year while we work on HUGE stuff for OOTP 21” but instead we were intentionally deceived as evident by the refusal to release a features list before launch.

This has nothing to do with people’s desire to get “their” wishes into the game, it has everything to do with customers wanting the satisfaction of knowing their money was well spent. Right now there are a lot of questions and I think we need answers as to why the feature list was not released.
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:34 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Poweshow View Post
The main issue as I see it is that the development team knew there were very few fixes or additions to the game this year and refused to provide a new features list because of this. It is extremely apparent this is what happened and now there is an 8-page thread related to this shady practice.

I think many people would have been content with “this is a transition year while we work on HUGE stuff for OOTP 21” but instead we were intentionally deceived as evident by the refusal to release a features list before launch.

This has nothing to do with people’s desire to get “their” wishes into the game, it has everything to do with customers wanting the satisfaction of knowing their money was well spent. Right now there are a lot of questions and I think we need answers as to why the feature list was not released.
I completely disagree with everything in this post.
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:34 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Poweshow View Post
The main issue as I see it is that the development team knew there were very few fixes or additions to the game this year and refused to provide a new features list because of this. It is extremely apparent this is what happened and now there is an 8-page thread related to this shady practice.

I think many people would have been content with “this is a transition year while we work on HUGE stuff for OOTP 21” but instead we were intentionally deceived as evident by the refusal to release a features list before launch.

This has nothing to do with people’s desire to get “their” wishes into the game, it has everything to do with customers wanting the satisfaction of knowing their money was well spent. Right now there are a lot of questions and I think we need answers as to why the feature list was not released.
Check this out:

OOTP 20 Announced - Pre-Order now!
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:12 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Ktulu View Post
The feature list was posted February 26th.

You are factually incorrect. Please reference this locked thread from the OOTP team:

https://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boa...d.php?t=299528
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:45 PM   #150
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All the main features were announced a month before release. They're listed right on the page for the game: https://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out...baseball-home/

As always things are added leading up to and after release, and throughout the year.
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:45 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Poweshow View Post
You are factually incorrect. Please reference this locked thread from the OOTP team:

https://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boa...d.php?t=299528
This really starts to get ridiculous.
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:47 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
OK, I think this thread has slowly run its course, right?

In a nutshell, the main problem is that everybody has their pet peeve issues they would like to see improved or fixed, but we have not found time yet to get to it. Please keep reporting them in the bugs report forum or the suggestions forum, that is very helpful and we'll get to them one day (unless it's a really stupid idea or simply too much work with not enough benefit for the big majority of users).

Thanks for your support!
As I much as I may have disagreed with the post being locked before, I do agree that it has run its course. At first, this post was nothing but good constructive feedback with valid points. It's turning more hostile now. Plus, the impressions thread is now open.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:09 PM   #153
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There is no excuse to ever close a thread where discussion about the game or ethics is taking place.

Silencing people will never be the solution.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:22 PM   #154
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No one can say that Markus does not listen!!!
I know another popular baseball sim and on their forum if you say anything less than 100% positive, you will be banned and post deleted.
i did no such thing, but yes, i am capable of saying those words, in general.



heh, you grow up in a house with an english teacher and you think this sort of thing is funny.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:44 PM   #155
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I bought the game because of past experience and the feature list. Everything on the feature list is in the game and I am greatly enjoying this version. I think for me it is the best version Since I started playing OOTP. I suppose if I didn’t like the feature list, I would have waited until the game was released to make up my mine. Over ther years I have probably played all the other computer baseball sims and OOTP is by far the best. I still check out the others and usually they just have updated rosters and some new baseball rules but charge as much as OOTP (even thought their features and options and 3D play is way behind OOTP).
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:51 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Ktulu View Post
All the main features were announced a month before release. They're listed right on the page for the game: https://www.ootpdevelopments.com/out...baseball-home/

As always things are added leading up to and after release, and throughout the year.
Do you think he'll come back and admit he was wrong?

Yeah, me neither
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Old 03-25-2019, 05:47 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
See, this all sounds simple, but it would take many hours for something that only 0.01% of users would ever care for, with the potential to break existing code which could require a hotfix. It just does not make any sense for us to give this any sort of priority. And there are countless examples of such tweaks / improvements. Our job is to prioritze them and make sure we make the best decisions for the majority of customers. Eventually we'll get to these small things, but it will take time...
Except that the items I pointed out help make OOTP a better and more accurate simulation of baseball. Alternate parks are a consequential part of the sport's history. The Indians split their home games between two parks for many years, and each park has different park factors. That would impact the fidelity of historical leagues. The instances of clubs moving to new parks during a seasons are similar. The opening and closing dates for the halves in a split-season are important because OOTP handles split-seasons now is not exactly optimal. And the split-season format is a big part of minor league baseball history. And so on.

If even something as basic as the structure of the schedule file is that complicated to change, then that only makes me think the game needs to be recoded entirely from the ground up. There are far too many limitations within its current code that make many straightforward additions or changes difficult. Plus, it would seem, not enough provision was made for the potential of additions down the line, and thus now when such an addition is being contemplated it has to be brute forced in rather than an allowance having been made in the structure for such addition.

OOTP went through six (seven if you count OOTP 6.5) iterations under its original coding structure. Then it was fully rewritten for OOTP 2006. But there has been no comparable rewrite since. That's thirteen years under the same basic internal code. That's an awful long time.

All I can say is, if every smaller suggestion which affects realism, performance, and/or flexibility keeps getting put off with "it's too much trouble to change right now" for year after year, then I think I might as well just drop out again and come back in, say, three or four years and see if the environment has changed. Because I already dipped out three years ago seeing this same reasoning continually being put forth. There's little point in putting effort into suggestions and proposals only to see the same "it's too much trouble to change right now, we'll get to it later, eventually" justification. I've got a ton of real-world data that could help improve various aspects of OOTP's simulation. But there's little to no official interest as a result.

To be brutally honest, I get the sense sometimes that OOTP is resting on its laurels too much. It has become too safe and thus too limited in its choices.

I guess I'm dropping out again for another few years . . .
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:28 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Just FYI - here are the current patch notes for the upcoming one (Tuesday or Wednesday):

20.1
- Fixed rare crash in CPBL compensation
- Fixed players being backups twice at a position
- Added exit velocity to game logs, spray chart
- Fixed description when releasing rule 5 picks
- Fixed draft picks not being elligble to be dealt in some cases
- Fixed multiple live start issues: no more zero stats, wrong boxscore parsing, incorrect team runs values
- Fixed issues when alternating between watching multiple games/viewing spray charts
- Added hint text to spray charts on click
- Fixed bug in large playoff brackets
- Fixed bug that caused injuries to be enabled when checking historical transactions after league creation
- Tweaked several financial numbers for teams in international leagues in the default game
- Fixed light background for PbP in classic skin & classic 2D game view
- Added a system out of memory protection mecanism to save game progress before any risk of memory usage game crash
- Fixed leagues with foreigner restrictions by taking into account the secondary nations of players when making the foreigner checks
- Fixed issues when alternating between watching multiple games/viewing spray charts
- Added hint text to spray charts on click
- Fixed relievers showing up in qualified SP bucket
- Fixed bug in large playoff brackets
- Adjusted trade logic for superstars, financial considerations
- Fixed notifications appearing while playing out games
- Fixed mismatch between scouting reports
- Fixed pennant chase percents
- Fixed AI pitch limits in KBO, ***, and other foreign leagues
- Error message if the preseason prediction report fails to run instead of just showing 1 game for each team
- PT: Tweaked label for sold cards that got sold / bought via "Buy Now"
- PT: Updated various cards & missing pictures, for example Bryce Harper
- PT: Fixed crash for cards list when owning more than 8,192 cards. Now only the top 8,000 will be shown, depending on sort / filter.
- PT: Fixed problems for users logging in when they have > 10,000 cards and a slow internet connection
That's great! Thanks.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:32 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Just FYI - here are the current patch notes for the upcoming one (Tuesday or Wednesday):

20.1
- Fixed rare crash in CPBL compensation
- Fixed players being backups twice at a position
- Added exit velocity to game logs, spray chart
- Fixed description when releasing rule 5 picks
- Fixed draft picks not being elligble to be dealt in some cases
- Fixed multiple live start issues: no more zero stats, wrong boxscore parsing, incorrect team runs values
- Fixed issues when alternating between watching multiple games/viewing spray charts
- Added hint text to spray charts on click
- Fixed bug in large playoff brackets
- Fixed bug that caused injuries to be enabled when checking historical transactions after league creation
- Tweaked several financial numbers for teams in international leagues in the default game
- Fixed light background for PbP in classic skin & classic 2D game view
- Added a system out of memory protection mecanism to save game progress before any risk of memory usage game crash
- Fixed leagues with foreigner restrictions by taking into account the secondary nations of players when making the foreigner checks
- Fixed issues when alternating between watching multiple games/viewing spray charts
- Added hint text to spray charts on click
- Fixed relievers showing up in qualified SP bucket
- Fixed bug in large playoff brackets
- Adjusted trade logic for superstars, financial considerations
- Fixed notifications appearing while playing out games
- Fixed mismatch between scouting reports
- Fixed pennant chase percents
- Fixed AI pitch limits in KBO, ***, and other foreign leagues
- Error message if the preseason prediction report fails to run instead of just showing 1 game for each team
- PT: Tweaked label for sold cards that got sold / bought via "Buy Now"
- PT: Updated various cards & missing pictures, for example Bryce Harper
- PT: Fixed crash for cards list when owning more than 8,192 cards. Now only the top 8,000 will be shown, depending on sort / filter.
- PT: Fixed problems for users logging in when they have > 10,000 cards and a slow internet connection
Well, aside from a few that are listed twice (lol), I am really looking forward to the scouting report fixes and the trade AI somehow taking superstardom into account.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poweshow View Post
You are factually incorrect. Please reference this locked thread from the OOTP team:

https://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boa...d.php?t=299528
I honestly think you just weren't paying attention. That you didn't see the features list isn't equivalent to them not releasing one. And they released many details well before the game came out (even if it wasn't a FULL list). Many of us saw this information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange View Post
Except that the items I pointed out help make OOTP a better and more accurate simulation of baseball. Alternate parks are a consequential part of the sport's history. The Indians split their home games between two parks for many years, and each park has different park factors. That would impact the fidelity of historical leagues. The instances of clubs moving to new parks during a seasons are similar. The opening and closing dates for the halves in a split-season are important because OOTP handles split-seasons now is not exactly optimal. And the split-season format is a big part of minor league baseball history. And so on.

If even something as basic as the structure of the schedule file is that complicated to change, then that only makes me think the game needs to be recoded entirely from the ground up. There are far too many limitations within its current code that make many straightforward additions or changes difficult. Plus, it would seem, not enough provision was made for the potential of additions down the line, and thus now when such an addition is being contemplated it has to be brute forced in rather than an allowance having been made in the structure for such addition.

OOTP went through six (seven if you count OOTP 6.5) iterations under its original coding structure. Then it was fully rewritten for OOTP 2006. But there has been no comparable rewrite since. That's thirteen years under the same basic internal code. That's an awful long time.

All I can say is, if every smaller suggestion which affects realism, performance, and/or flexibility keeps getting put off with "it's too much trouble to change right now" for year after year, then I think I might as well just drop out again and come back in, say, three or four years and see if the environment has changed. Because I already dipped out three years ago seeing this same reasoning continually being put forth. There's little point in putting effort into suggestions and proposals only to see the same "it's too much trouble to change right now, we'll get to it later, eventually" justification. I've got a ton of real-world data that could help improve various aspects of OOTP's simulation. But there's little to no official interest as a result.

To be brutally honest, I get the sense sometimes that OOTP is resting on its laurels too much. It has become too safe and thus too limited in its choices.

I guess I'm dropping out again for another few years . . .
I don't agree with your statement which I bolded. This is rather subjective and like Markus says everyone has their pet peeve issue (super complex playoff structures or AI or statistical fidelity etc) and would like to see that issue addressed. I actually have quite the opposite outlook from yours. To me, OOTP appears to have taken some pretty significant risks lately with focusing on 3D and PT rather than resting on their laurels/making incremental AI tweaks and nothing else. And in so doing, the game is starting to transcend its "text sim" label. That some people don't really care about 3D graphics or playing Perfect Team, again, goes back to the issue of your pet peeve vs somebody else's. But, no one can really assert accurately that these things are insignificant undertakings.

Last edited by waittilnextyear; 03-25-2019 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:40 PM   #160
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for the record, garden enthusiasts are clearly masochistic in nature. it's not fun, and it genuinely hurts... all over. the setup was a ton of work.
I don't garden, but I do a lot of weeding, and it's the worst. I end up sore in places I never even knew I had muscles ...
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