Seeking Interesting Ideas for Simming Whole Seasons

Joe Shlabotnick · 04-30-2012, 02:18 PM

I have tried to "get into" this game for years, and I have read all the previous threads on the topic of ways to play/enjoy the game.

I have failed.

Yet something keeps drawing me to the game ... looking for ways to make it work for me. I just can't give up on such an excellent recreation of my favorite sport. The problem is that I much prefer to actually play baseball (i.e., MLB The Show).

I am not a kid. I am 50 years old.

The bottom line FOR ME (and me only; please let's not have a thread attacking my opinion or defending the game; that's totally pointless) is that I don't enjoy playing out the games, because I would rather see the action. And I don't enjoy GM'ing because it is a lot of work and I may as well be evaluting widget productivity as baseball. It feels so impersonal to just be a GM.

So.... my latest thought is to do nothing but sim out seasons and look at the results. And my concern is that I'll say "Hmm, that's nice. What's for dinner?" I'm looking for a creative way to make this simming more interesting/compelling/competitive.

Like?

Like, I don't know, giving one team a whole lot more money than other teams and seeing what happens.

Or giving one team all the best players, and seeing what happens.

Or .... ?

I prefer historical seasons. But fictional is possible. Or a mix?

philliesphan26 · 04-30-2012, 04:07 PM

I am sort of in your boat in terms of what I'm looking for out of the game... Only, I am having a blast with my league. I actually haven't touched The Show since OOTP 13 came out. I don't like to play out the games either... I'm in July 2016 (middle of my fifth season) in my league and I haven't played out a single one, and I've only used Real Time Simulation twice (both in 2015... once for Game 6 of my Conference Finals series which I clinched, then again for Game 7 of the League Championship the following week, which I ended up losing). This is entirely fictional, as I have no interest in historical or doing an MLB league (that's what The Show is for

).

My league has 20 teams total, with 10 teams in each sub-league (no divisions, all the teams in each sub-league are grouped together). The first thing I wanted to do was create a bit of a rivalry between my sub-leagues, so I made one of the sub-leagues all Canadian teams (Canuck) and the other one all American teams (Yankee). There's no interleague play, and the only time they'll play each other is in the championship. So far, in the four seasons I've finished, a Canadian team has won the championship each time. In my head I've kind of created this illusion that because of this, the Canadian teams have the American teams number.

I think, for me at least, the first year or two is definitely the most boring (especially in fictional), since you don't really know any of the players yet and don't have any sort of emotional attachment. You haven't drafted anyone and seen how he's developed yet. So what I did for my league is I simmed the inaugural draft and I picked a team that I thought would be very bad for the first year or two (ideally the worst team, as that results in the first overall pick in the draft... helps to turn on the "Can't be fired" option too). Luckily, I DID manage to pick out the worst team and ended up with the first overall pick in my league's first amateur draft. So after only a few months, I had a player I could follow and something to look forward to.

Now here's where the game shines, for me. With scouting, obviously the ratings you see (if you play with ratings on) aren't completely accurate, sometimes even drastically off from a player's true ratings. In the case of my first overall pick, turns out a few years down the road he didn't pan out the way I had hoped him too, and last season (3.5 seasons after I drafted him), I had had enough of his lack of production and just couldn't justify giving him a spot in my lineup since I had very good depth at his position (LF)... So I traded him away for a middle-of-the road younger player and a 4th round draft pick. A year later (to where I currently am now in my league), and he's killing it on his new team and the guy I got for him languishing on my AAA squad. I definitely got shafted, but I waited too long to pull off a trade and had to sell low.

However, on the opposite end, my team is doing great now after a terrible first 3 years, with the cornerstones of my organization being a 24 year old ace pitcher who contributed immediately after I drafted him, and a 23 year old stud CF who is a multi-tool player and can seemingly do it all. I'm excited to see how these players pan out and am honestly excited for the future.

What was the point of telling you all this? I wanted to highlight how much this game can really take off after the first year or two, once you get "homegrown" players making their debuts or get the chance to reflect on some big trades you had made and how they ended up affecting your team in the long-run. Again, this is a fictional league. I think fictional is ideal if you are aiming for this type of thing, since with MLB/historical I would be way too caught up with preconceived opinions on what stats a certain player should put up, or how a certain prospect should end up panning out. With fictional, I don't have any biases, and am delighted when I see an average, run of the mill player have a breakout year (doesn't happen often, which makes it even better) or when I see a player who is supposed to be amazing end up struggling through the year. That's obviously not how some other people like to play, but it suits the way I play perfectly and is something no other sports game can do (up to OOTP's standard at least)

Joe Shlabotnick · 04-30-2012, 04:18 PM

You are getting me thinking. Thanks for writing.

JMDurron · 04-30-2012, 04:18 PM

Since you prefer historical seasons, you might enjoy what I am doing. I am doing a replay league where I take one team's 1st round picks and replace them with who that team *should* have picked using their pick (you can only pick from players taken from that pick onward historically), then simulating out the results to the present.

In my case, I'm doing that 1st round pick each season (heavy bias towards keeping historically worthwhile 1st picks by that team), so the GMing implications become more complex with each passing year, but you could do that, or just do a single pick differently and simulate out the differences. You could just use a reserve roster without minors to limit some of the day-to-day widget measuring.

Just a thought.

Joe Shlabotnick · 04-30-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philliesphan26

The first thing I wanted to do was create a bit of a rivalry between my sub-leagues, so I made one of the sub-leagues all Canadian teams (Canuck) and the other one all American teams (Yankee). There's no interleague play, and the only time they'll play each other is in the championship. So far, in the four seasons I've finished, a Canadian team has won the championship each time. In my head I've kind of created this illusion that because of this, the Canadian teams have the American teams number.

But what about trades? With inter-league trading, the "purity" of your leagues will drift away with time, right?

Joe Shlabotnick · 04-30-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMDurron

Since you prefer historical seasons, you might enjoy what I am doing. I am doing a replay league where I take one team's 1st round picks and replace them with who that team *should* have picked using their pick (you can only pick from players taken from that pick onward historically), then simulating out the results to the present.

In my case, I'm doing that 1st round pick each season (heavy bias towards keeping historically worthwhile 1st picks by that team), so the GMing implications become more complex with each passing year, but you could do that, or just do a single pick differently and simulate out the differences. You could just use a reserve roster without minors to limit some of the day-to-day widget measuring.

Just a thought.

And how do you find/decide who "should" have been picked yearly?

philliesphan26 · 04-30-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shlabotnick

But what about trades? With inter-league trading, the "purity" of your leagues will drift away with time, right?

I'm not confining Candian players to the Canadian teams and American players to the American teams (though you could if you wanted to). Rather, it's just a geographical thing, where one sub-league is entirely located in Canada and the other is entirely located in America and each team can have whatever kind of players they want to.

RchW · 04-30-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shlabotnick

I have tried to "get into" this game for years, and I have read all the previous threads on the topic of ways to play/enjoy the game.

I have failed.

Yet something keeps drawing me to the game ... looking for ways to make it work for me. I just can't give up on such an excellent recreation of my favorite sport. The problem is that I much prefer to actually play baseball (i.e., MLB The Show).

I am not a kid. I am 50 years old.

The bottom line FOR ME (and me only; please let's not have a thread attacking my opinion or defending the game; that's totally pointless) is that I don't enjoy playing out the games, because I would rather see the action. And I don't enjoy GM'ing because it is a lot of work and I may as well be evaluting widget productivity as baseball. It feels so impersonal to just be a GM.

So.... my latest thought is to do nothing but sim out seasons and look at the results. And my concern is that I'll say "Hmm, that's nice. What's for dinner?" I'm looking for a creative way to make this simming more interesting/compelling/competitive.

Like?

Like, I don't know, giving one team a whole lot more money than other teams and seeing what happens.

Or giving one team all the best players, and seeing what happens.

Or .... ?

I prefer historical seasons. But fictional is possible. Or a mix?

You should do historical but not use recalc. The development engine will redo history in a completely unpredictable way. Some players may bomb others may come from obscurity, but the statistical achievements should be within reason. This is an ideal league to sim.

David Watts · 04-30-2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

You should do historical but not use recalc. The development engine will redo history in a completely unpredictable way. Some players may bomb others may come from obscurity, but the statistical achievements should be within reason. This is an ideal league to sim.

The above combined with the random debut feature is a blast.

Joe Shlabotnick · 04-30-2012, 05:44 PM

Recalc .... please remind me where that choice is made. What do I choose instead?

Joe Shlabotnick · 04-30-2012, 11:12 PM

OK, recalc sounds good.

What other settings would give me a nice mix of "recreating actual stats" on some occasions and getting wildly divergent results other times?

Can someone recommend a setting as far as minor leagues/ghost players?

RchW · 04-30-2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shlabotnick

OK, recalc sounds good.

What other settings would give me a nice mix of "recreating actual stats" on some occasions and getting wildly divergent results other times?

Can someone recommend a setting as far as minor leagues/ghost players?

Just to clarify you do not want to use recalc. The idea is to follow historical players through the in game development engine.

In the earlier days I'd use a reserve roster. However I'm not an expert on historical.

JMDurron · 05-01-2012, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shlabotnick

And how do you find/decide who "should" have been picked yearly?

Baseball-reference.com for the historical draft slots, and to see who was already picked. Baseball-almanac to see which players who made MLB debuts were taken after that draft pick, and back to b-ref to compare the MLB performances of those players.

This is where you can do your own house rules. If you just want the best player available, then get the best player available (I play without mercy, so that's my style). If you want to limit yourself to a particular position or performance level, then just look for those types of players. It's not just the hunting for the best draft option, it's gaming out how it changes what the franchise could/should have done in subsequent transactions going forward that makes it fun, at least for me.

04-30-2012, 02:18 PM	#1
Joe Shlabotnick Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Row 12, Seat 7 Posts: 290	Seeking Interesting Ideas for Simming Whole Seasons I have tried to "get into" this game for years, and I have read all the previous threads on the topic of ways to play/enjoy the game. I have failed. Yet something keeps drawing me to the game ... looking for ways to make it work for me. I just can't give up on such an excellent recreation of my favorite sport. The problem is that I much prefer to actually play baseball (i.e., MLB The Show). I am not a kid. I am 50 years old. The bottom line FOR ME (and me only; please let's not have a thread attacking my opinion or defending the game; that's totally pointless) is that I don't enjoy playing out the games, because I would rather see the action. And I don't enjoy GM'ing because it is a lot of work and I may as well be evaluting widget productivity as baseball. It feels so impersonal to just be a GM. So.... my latest thought is to do nothing but sim out seasons and look at the results. And my concern is that I'll say "Hmm, that's nice. What's for dinner?" I'm looking for a creative way to make this simming more interesting/compelling/competitive. Like? Like, I don't know, giving one team a whole lot more money than other teams and seeing what happens. Or giving one team all the best players, and seeing what happens. Or .... ? I prefer historical seasons. But fictional is possible. Or a mix? __________________ This space for rent. Last edited by Joe Shlabotnick; 04-30-2012 at 02:20 PM.

04-30-2012, 04:07 PM	#2
philliesphan26 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 254	I am sort of in your boat in terms of what I'm looking for out of the game... Only, I am having a blast with my league. I actually haven't touched The Show since OOTP 13 came out. I don't like to play out the games either... I'm in July 2016 (middle of my fifth season) in my league and I haven't played out a single one, and I've only used Real Time Simulation twice (both in 2015... once for Game 6 of my Conference Finals series which I clinched, then again for Game 7 of the League Championship the following week, which I ended up losing). This is entirely fictional, as I have no interest in historical or doing an MLB league (that's what The Show is for ). My league has 20 teams total, with 10 teams in each sub-league (no divisions, all the teams in each sub-league are grouped together). The first thing I wanted to do was create a bit of a rivalry between my sub-leagues, so I made one of the sub-leagues all Canadian teams (Canuck) and the other one all American teams (Yankee). There's no interleague play, and the only time they'll play each other is in the championship. So far, in the four seasons I've finished, a Canadian team has won the championship each time. In my head I've kind of created this illusion that because of this, the Canadian teams have the American teams number. I think, for me at least, the first year or two is definitely the most boring (especially in fictional), since you don't really know any of the players yet and don't have any sort of emotional attachment. You haven't drafted anyone and seen how he's developed yet. So what I did for my league is I simmed the inaugural draft and I picked a team that I thought would be very bad for the first year or two (ideally the worst team, as that results in the first overall pick in the draft... helps to turn on the "Can't be fired" option too). Luckily, I DID manage to pick out the worst team and ended up with the first overall pick in my league's first amateur draft. So after only a few months, I had a player I could follow and something to look forward to. Now here's where the game shines, for me. With scouting, obviously the ratings you see (if you play with ratings on) aren't completely accurate, sometimes even drastically off from a player's true ratings. In the case of my first overall pick, turns out a few years down the road he didn't pan out the way I had hoped him too, and last season (3.5 seasons after I drafted him), I had had enough of his lack of production and just couldn't justify giving him a spot in my lineup since I had very good depth at his position (LF)... So I traded him away for a middle-of-the road younger player and a 4th round draft pick. A year later (to where I currently am now in my league), and he's killing it on his new team and the guy I got for him languishing on my AAA squad. I definitely got shafted, but I waited too long to pull off a trade and had to sell low. However, on the opposite end, my team is doing great now after a terrible first 3 years, with the cornerstones of my organization being a 24 year old ace pitcher who contributed immediately after I drafted him, and a 23 year old stud CF who is a multi-tool player and can seemingly do it all. I'm excited to see how these players pan out and am honestly excited for the future. What was the point of telling you all this? I wanted to highlight how much this game can really take off after the first year or two, once you get "homegrown" players making their debuts or get the chance to reflect on some big trades you had made and how they ended up affecting your team in the long-run. Again, this is a fictional league. I think fictional is ideal if you are aiming for this type of thing, since with MLB/historical I would be way too caught up with preconceived opinions on what stats a certain player should put up, or how a certain prospect should end up panning out. With fictional, I don't have any biases, and am delighted when I see an average, run of the mill player have a breakout year (doesn't happen often, which makes it even better) or when I see a player who is supposed to be amazing end up struggling through the year. That's obviously not how some other people like to play, but it suits the way I play perfectly and is something no other sports game can do (up to OOTP's standard at least) Last edited by philliesphan26; 04-30-2012 at 04:08 PM.

04-30-2012, 04:18 PM	#3
Joe Shlabotnick Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Row 12, Seat 7 Posts: 290	You are getting me thinking. Thanks for writing. __________________ This space for rent.

04-30-2012, 05:44 PM	#10
Joe Shlabotnick Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Row 12, Seat 7 Posts: 290	Recalc .... please remind me where that choice is made. What do I choose instead? __________________ This space for rent.

04-30-2012, 11:12 PM	#11
Joe Shlabotnick Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Row 12, Seat 7 Posts: 290	OK, recalc sounds good. What other settings would give me a nice mix of "recreating actual stats" on some occasions and getting wildly divergent results other times? Can someone recommend a setting as far as minor leagues/ghost players? __________________ This space for rent.

04-30-2012, 04:18 PM	#4
JMDurron All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,262	Since you prefer historical seasons, you might enjoy what I am doing. I am doing a replay league where I take one team's 1st round picks and replace them with who that team should have picked using their pick (you can only pick from players taken from that pick onward historically), then simulating out the results to the present. In my case, I'm doing that 1st round pick each season (heavy bias towards keeping historically worthwhile 1st picks by that team), so the GMing implications become more complex with each passing year, but you could do that, or just do a single pick differently and simulate out the differences. You could just use a reserve roster without minors to limit some of the day-to-day widget measuring. Just a thought.