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OOTP 20 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 05-15-2019, 09:42 AM   #1
David Watts
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Why Historical?

There's not a ton of us, but based on the threads in this forum, it does appear we aren't going away. That being said, why do you play historical? Why do you enjoy it? Have you tried fictional, the MLB quickstart? Are you the type of historical player that needs everything to be as close to real life as possible, or do you like to stray into your own world, but use real players? Does seeing a guy like Ted Williams put on a Yankee uniform in one of your leagues bother you, or does it add life and flavor to your leagues history? Would love to hear your thoughts.

One more question to add: When playing historical, do you often wish the :"Real Stats" line was optional? That we could chose whether we see it or not?

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Old 05-15-2019, 10:57 AM   #2
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I have played a lot of fictional and current MLB, but I still prefer historical. It is a digital Field of Dreams with me as a GM/Manager. "And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces."


Regarding your specific questions:

Yes, it bothers me to see Williams as a Yankee. I like to play with rookies imported to their debut teams, but it doesn't take long before some trade or free agent signing bothers me. I have tried historical transactions but that is pretty boring, so I just force myself to accept whatever the AI does. As I get older, it seems to bother me less so maybe someday I will be really bold and try random debut.

The real stats line is nothing for me, because I pretty much know who did what anyway. If I really wanted fog of war, I would play fictional.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:10 AM   #3
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I have played a lot of fictional and current MLB, but I still prefer historical. It is a digital Field of Dreams with me as a GM/Manager. "And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces."


Regarding your specific questions:

Yes, it bothers me to see Williams as a Yankee. I like to play with rookies imported to their debut teams, but it doesn't take long before some trade or free agent signing bothers me. I have tried historical transactions but that is pretty boring, so I just force myself to accept whatever the AI does. As I get older, it seems to bother me less so maybe someday I will be really bold and try random debut.

The real stats line is nothing for me, because I pretty much know who did what anyway. If I really wanted fog of war, I would play fictional.
I love random debut, but I've never had a successful long running random debut league using real MLB teams. My leagues have always used fictional teams, logos, locations etc. For me, it's a blast to create a history completely separate from reality.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:47 AM   #4
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Orcin pretty much summed up a good part of my love for historical. I'd love to do Random Debut some day but I'm not there yet.

I just like historical because I feel like I can escape to the 1970s and '80s and relive part of my childhood. And I keep starting over every year because I also find some new way to improve the way my league is currently going or I screw up some setting that makes me want to start over.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:37 PM   #5
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For the following reasons

#1: As a GM/Manager - Trying to win a World Series with a long-time "cursed" ballclub e.g. Boston, Cubs or taking over an expansion team ala Montreal or Florida and trying to have sustained success with them is a lot more fun.

#2: Varying Careers - I love seeing players have wildly different careers based on the teams they land with or ballparks they end up hitting/pitching in. I also enjoy, as a Manager, taking that power hitting slugger who's maybe 34 or 35 years old and seeing if I can give them a boost so they finish their career over 450 or 500 home runs while getting great production from them (think Frank Thomas here).

#3: How MLB History Changes If you start a league old enough, it's fun seeing how history changes from say 1940 - 1990 or even 1920 - 1960. Which teams become the new de-factor Kings of baseball or are there a bunch of teams which constantly trade championships? What about which teams become perennial basement dwellers.
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Old 05-15-2019, 12:51 PM   #6
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For the following reasons

#1: As a GM/Manager - Trying to win a World Series with a long-time "cursed" ballclub e.g. Boston, Cubs or taking over an expansion team ala Montreal or Florida and trying to have sustained success with them is a lot more fun.

#2: Varying Careers - I love seeing players have wildly different careers based on the teams they land with or ballparks they end up hitting/pitching in. I also enjoy, as a Manager, taking that power hitting slugger who's maybe 34 or 35 years old and seeing if I can give them a boost so they finish their career over 450 or 500 home runs while getting great production from them (think Frank Thomas here).

#3: How MLB History Changes If you start a league old enough, it's fun seeing how history changes from say 1940 - 1990 or even 1920 - 1960. Which teams become the new de-factor Kings of baseball or are there a bunch of teams which constantly trade championships? What about which teams become perennial basement dwellers.
I like to make little changes like adding free agency or changing "use of closers" to very often.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:06 PM   #7
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I play strictly historical, but in an almost fictional context. Sometimes it's to see if I can do better than the real guys did, others to see, "What if?" I'll do odd expansions, fiddle with ballparks, etc. The players are always real, and I almost always use real minors rather than random debut. That said...there was the time I had the Phils in Baker, the Braves in Borchert, the Nashville expansion in Sulphur Dell, and the Salt Lake City in Bonneville Park...you want to talk statistical cluster jam? I also loathe free agency and find the DH to be an abomination. I've expanded as far as a 64 team MLB and it really does play havoc. I've also done it so the westward expansion happened over the course of decades, and incrementally—Denver and Houston got franchises before LA & SF in that world.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:19 PM   #8
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I do fictional historical pretty much entirely for number three there. At that every year I want to try something in the 70s or 80s, then I think “but I want to have some cool history” and so I do crap like what I’m doing now, which is I started a league in 1876 and now am almost done with 1884. Just 65ish more years to go!!!
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:33 PM   #9
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I have never tried nothing other than historical as the standard game is weird with all the foreign leagues, fictional comes across as too made up and random debut seems quite random.

I always start in 1871 and once the real minors kick in good I delete all the superstar players from every team and see who fills the slot. Since the game keeps the stats full I still have players with 500+ hrs and 300+ wins. just not the ones you might expect.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:48 PM   #10
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I have a hard time deciding where the dividing line between fictional and historical should be.

After all, the minute you start a historical simulation it begins to veer away from actual history and becomes a plausible alternate history (in other words, fictional).

I would say that what I like to do is a blend between fictional and historical - but probably leaning more towards fictional. I like to create an alternate universe with all fictional players and with teams and league organization that are partly taken from real history and partly fictional. But I want my alternate universe to remain fairly close to real baseball history as far as the eras and style of play.

Forget about competition between teams - what I enjoy is competition between universes. I like to follow the best players in the alternate universe and compare them to the real all-time greats. I like to see if my universe can produce players like Babe Ruth or Walter Johnson and the like. It's sort of an exploration of the space of possibilities.
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Old 05-15-2019, 06:55 PM   #11
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I am having a blast since starting in 19, up to 1924 Off Season now. I like to see how the great could have done in my world and see the other guys, like the Negro League guys. I enjoy looking at the real life stats of like Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Babe Ruth and compare on how they are performing.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:00 AM   #12
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For any of you that have used real minors. When you fire things up in say 1947 there are tons of leagues in play. This is cool, but I've always worried that after a season or two, the game file will get so damn huge that moving from one day to the next will take a month. If I start in 1947 will the game slow to a crawl by 1957, 1967 etc. Just curious. Don't have a super computer but it's workable. Am I worrying over spilled spuds or do I have a legitimate worry?...

Would it be smart to go to every minor league and change the amount of stats kept to normal or lower?

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Old 05-17-2019, 09:30 AM   #13
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Depends totally on what you keep, like box scores, scouting reports etc.

if you keep those to a minimum you can get about 200 years in before "thar she blows" time
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:47 AM   #14
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Depends totally on what you keep, like box scores, scouting reports etc.

if you keep those to a minimum you can get about 200 years in before "thar she blows" time
Thanks so much. I never keep boxscores and never play historical with scouting turned on.

So, no need to lower the amount of minor league stat detail either?
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:47 AM   #15
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Do you use injuries in historical leagues or not?
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:16 PM   #16
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Do you use injuries in historical leagues or not?
That's one of the reasons I'm curious about playing with real minors. I always use injuries when I do random debuts. I usually delete enough teams so there are enough players to use either normal or high realistic. I've been replaying 1969 over the last week or so without minors and there simply isn't enough players to use injuries and feel comfortable that a team isn't going to end up with an outfielder catching or a 1b at ss. For me, looking at a players stats is more interesting when they have gaps or seasons in which they missed chunks of play. Plus, why would Joe Blah ever even get a chance to play if it wasn't for injuries.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:02 PM   #17
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For any of you that have used real minors. When you fire things up in say 1947 there are tons of leagues in play. This is cool, but I've always worried that after a season or two, the game file will get so damn huge that moving from one day to the next will take a month. If I start in 1947 will the game slow to a crawl by 1957, 1967 etc. Just curious. Don't have a super computer but it's workable. Am I worrying over spilled spuds or do I have a legitimate worry?...

Would it be smart to go to every minor league and change the amount of stats kept to normal or lower?
I always use real minors once I get to 1919. If you start in 1947 it will seem like a slow crawl. However, it begins to get a lot more tolerable once you reach the mid-50's as a lot of the indy leagues fold. Once you reach the mid-60's you are only dealing with 16 leagues and the game plays fine in my experience.

If you find it too slow in the 30's and 40's by all means reduce some of the settings and you could also eliminate baseball cards and such.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
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That's one of the reasons I'm curious about playing with real minors. I always use injuries when I do random debuts. I usually delete enough teams so there are enough players to use either normal or high realistic. I've been replaying 1969 over the last week or so without minors and there simply isn't enough players to use injuries and feel comfortable that a team isn't going to end up with an outfielder catching or a 1b at ss. For me, looking at a players stats is more interesting when they have gaps or seasons in which they missed chunks of play. Plus, why would Joe Blah ever even get a chance to play if it wasn't for injuries.

I ran some test seasons with historical transactions on since it turns off injuries and the results are not as good as with injuries on. I see 27 Ruth getting 40 homers and 61 Maris getting 47. Both played over 150 games.


I'm thinking it may be the case that without injuries they are facing better competition. Thats fine for an all time greats league. Im not sure if works as well for a career replay.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:17 AM   #19
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I might try fictional again but i haven't been able to decide exactly how i want to do it. I
I prefer historical because the players are familiar but the simulated history is not.
Besides where else am i gonna see the cubs win multiple world series between 1909-2015 without a random debut or fictional players?
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Old 05-27-2019, 10:39 PM   #20
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I'm glad we historical simmers aren't going away. I love playing historical because I'm a student of the history of this greatest of sports. I especially love the Deadball era. No, I don't want to adhere slavishly to how each game turned out though I am so very happy with OOTP's accuracy. Rather, for me, it's a chance to sort of witness great players like Wagner, Speaker, Collins, Johnson, Mathewson and more "play." Additionally, managing a Deadball team requires a completely different mindset than managing the modern style of get a few runners on and play for the bomb. I love the risks of Deadball: playing "small ball," going for the squeeze, bunts, you know, REAL baseball. The best part? No stupid "openers", DH. or "specialists whose job it is to get one hitter out.

Long live historical simmers!
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