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Old 02-26-2019, 10:43 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Splitter24 View Post
All of the new additions sound great and will make the game more fun and I look forward to seeing them, except for...

The Historical Legends. I know I am but a single voice. But I find the historical PT card equivalent of a best-ball golf tournament to be a repulsive abomination. As a baseball historian, they make me cringe. At least the Future Legends cards have the potential to maybe someday match their ratings. The Historical Legends are something that never happened. If you guys want to make fictional star cards, maybe you can make Roy Hobbs, Sidd Finch or Willie Mays Hayes?
now this is a great idea. could henry rowengartner strike out the ghost of shoeless joe jackson? would jon lester simply implode when benny "the jet" rodriguez is on the basepaths?
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Old 02-26-2019, 10:44 AM   #22
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We have not decided this yet.There are pros and cons to making the list public from the start.
Well here's one fan vote for being able to see em. It will make it more *fun* for collectors to fill in the missing spots, and fill out their binder. You don't have to list the stats on uncollected cards or anything, just let us see what they are so we can "color" them in as we collect.
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Old 02-26-2019, 10:54 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
I disagree completely. The composite ratings of the Historical Legends are based on individual seasons which in fact did happen. Where's the difference to the OOTP 19 Legends, there the ratings were based on an arbitrary array of X peak seasons, so in your argument this combined stats set never happened either.
Obviously you disagree. You're the boss. Otherwise you probably would've vetoed them.

The difference between the two examples is this: a "peak" card based on a string of seasons around the player's peak is representative of a player's ability around his peak. They are (or should be) representative of what that player was capable of producing in a season at the height of his career.

The new Legend cards don't represent ANY point in a player's career. It's cherry-picking a player's best individual category ratings from different points in his career to produce something that pushes realism way beyond the PT19's version of Legend cards.

I know this game is your baby. But your response seemed a little uncharacteristically defensive. I'm not even arguing the point that people won't like these new legends; I'm guessing there will many who are happy to have a super card regardless of who it is or how it's calculated, so long as they can construct the best team possible. But the two types are a complete apples to oranges comparison. I'm sorry, but we don't see eye-to-eye on this.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:03 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Further, the "Historical Legend" category cards are now based on a new rating algorithm, which takes the peak performances of a single year for each of the rating categories. The result are really awesome cards, most of them being Perfect (about 50 total).
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The composite ratings of the Historical Legends are based on individual seasons which in fact did happen.
Markus, perhaps I don't understand this. But... if you are saying that Babe Ruth's best year for homers is used for power and his best year for hits is used for contact and his best year for extra-base hits is used for gap power and his best year for walks is used for eye and his lowest strikeout year is used for avoid Ks... that year never happened. In fact, that year would likely be impossible.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:06 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
There is no carryover from OOTP 19 to 20. In OOTP 20 everybody starts from scratch, otherwise some users would have an unfair advantage.
Based on this, I should not be hoarding any PP points. Those balances are reset also?
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:07 AM   #26
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Markus, perhaps I don't understand this. But... if you are saying that Babe Ruth's best year for homers is used for power and his best year for hits is used for contact and his best year for extra-base hits is used for gap power and his best year for walks is used for eye and his lowest strikeout year is used for avoid Ks... that year never happened. In fact, that year would likely be impossible.
My understanding is the cards were never meant to be based on a "season" the player had. They are based on a portion of the player career.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:09 AM   #27
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now this is a great idea. could henry rowengartner strike out the ghost of shoeless joe jackson? would jon lester simply implode when benny "the jet" rodriguez is on the basepaths?
Agreed, would be a huge fan of Pedro Cerrano's 100 power and 2 avoiding k's, or Ricky Vaughn 100 stuff and 3 control
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:39 AM   #28
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Markus, perhaps I don't understand this. But... if you are saying that Babe Ruth's best year for homers is used for power and his best year for hits is used for contact and his best year for extra-base hits is used for gap power and his best year for walks is used for eye and his lowest strikeout year is used for avoid Ks... that year never happened. In fact, that year would likely be impossible.
We do some tweaking too, otherwise these cards would be way too good compared to the rest.

Really, I think this new approach is better than before, in fact when OOTP 19 PT started a lot of users thought the cards already worked like that and did not like the actual concept of ratings based on X peak seasons. But of coure this is a matter where some others have a different opinion, that's to be expected. You cannot please everybody.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:41 AM   #29
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Based on this, I should not be hoarding any PP points. Those balances are reset also?
Yes, absolutely nothing from OOTP 19 will carry over. PT in OOTP 19 will continue to run (for at least another 12 months) alongside PT in OOTP 20 as seperate worlds.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:43 AM   #30
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But the two types are a complete apples to oranges comparison. I'm sorry, but we don't see eye-to-eye on this.
That's okay, it's a matter of taste and opinion I suppose.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:44 AM   #31
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Can you share any info on whether the ratings on the historical cards carry over and remain as they were in 19, or whether they will change? Will the same historical players exist in 20 as in 19, or will some players be eliminated?

After many seasons of active play in 19, I think there has been a strong community identification of cards that over perform- many of these were selected this week as 19 all-stars- Suzuki, Barker, Dierker, Aparicio, etc., as well as other cards that underperform. Some of us may have even been compiling extensive excel files of performance by card (guilty..).

Do these historicals return with their current ratings, or is it a complete reset where we will have to rediscover from point zero potential individual card performance? Will some historicals return, but as different years and ratings?
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:02 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
Markus, perhaps I don't understand this. But... if you are saying that Babe Ruth's best year for homers is used for power and his best year for hits is used for contact and his best year for extra-base hits is used for gap power and his best year for walks is used for eye and his lowest strikeout year is used for avoid Ks... that year never happened. In fact, that year would likely be impossible.
Don't forget his 1916-1917 pitching. They'll be creating a player that will massacre non-DH tourneys.

My previous example was getting Pirates Bonds' legs and Gold Glove defense with Giants Bonds record-breaking power and walkrate. That's a monster roids couldn't even create.
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:10 PM   #33
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Can you share any info on whether the ratings on the historical cards carry over and remain as they were in 19, or whether they will change? Will the same historical players exist in 20 as in 19, or will some players be eliminated?

After many seasons of active play in 19, I think there has been a strong community identification of cards that over perform- many of these were selected this week as 19 all-stars- Suzuki, Barker, Dierker, Aparicio, etc., as well as other cards that underperform. Some of us may have even been compiling extensive excel files of performance by card (guilty..).

Do these historicals return with their current ratings, or is it a complete reset where we will have to rediscover from point zero potential individual card performance? Will some historicals return, but as different years and ratings?
The historical cards have different ratings, we have tweaked the rating algorithm and improved the database so that defensive ratings are more realistic, for example. Also, the overall card value rating calculation was tweaked. So, you'll have a lot of new things to discover We have added many new cards and also eliminated some (the Top WAR category, as mentioned in the first post).
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:35 PM   #34
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This all sounds very amazing!

My one humble suggestion might be to eventually have Salary Cap be its own full-time 162-game league sitting along-side the normal unrestricted league. One thing to hash out might be what the reserve roster would look like in this format - perhaps it is strictly a 25-active, 15-reserve roster, and everyone participating must be at exactly 40 players with X cap value. Moving cards between your collection and the active/reserve roster during the week when games are executing would need to be disabled.

I think adding the second Salary Cap weekly league would help keep engagement high as the season wears on and even the free-to-play guys have buffed teams. You can't just disregard the iron and low bronze guys by rule because some of them could be nice role players on your Salary Cap team. You could call the second league the "Perfect Manager" league. Thanks for considering.
Just adding another voice in support of this. I would very much like a permanent Salary Cap mode at some point. The challenge of building your team under those type of limitations is a lot more interesting to me than just putting all the highest rated players on my 25 man.
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:57 PM   #35
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I would suggest capping player seasons from one card somewhere between 20 and 26. That way players could build up realistic looking career stats. If you don't do that, we'll all have super teams by the time OOTP 21 comes out.
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Old 02-26-2019, 01:05 PM   #36
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If you don't do that, we'll all have super teams by the time OOTP 21 comes out.
And then we'll move on to OOTP 21 for a fresh start, which is what they want.
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Old 02-26-2019, 01:45 PM   #37
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Well, we use the season total stats, park-neutralize & normalize them and then, depending of the total sample size, we factor them into the ratings. For example, at the end of the season the ratings will be based 90% on real life stats (+10 % initial ratings) for all players who played the full season and 45% (+55% initial ratings) for guys who only played half a season (eg. 300 PA).
Sorry, I was referring to the method you'll be using to update the Live cards during the 2019 season.
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Old 02-26-2019, 02:12 PM   #38
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Just adding another voice in support of this. I would very much like a permanent Salary Cap mode at some point. The challenge of building your team under those type of limitations is a lot more interesting to me than just putting all the highest rated players on my 25 man.

Agree. And I do realize my suggestion is a pretty big ask. If we need to suffice with Salary Cap-esque challenges during OOTP 20 and this couldn't come until OOTP 21 that would be totally fine.
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Old 02-26-2019, 02:25 PM   #39
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Yes, absolutely nothing from OOTP 19 will carry over. PT in OOTP 19 will continue to run (for at least another 12 months) alongside PT in OOTP 20 as seperate worlds.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. You're ruining my life Markus.....lol
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Old 02-26-2019, 03:52 PM   #40
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Sorry, I was referring to the method you'll be using to update the Live cards during the 2019 season.
That is the method. Basically, we'll take the actual player stats, run some neutralization tweaks (ie. adjust Rockies players for park factors, etc...), and then based on how many PA/IP they have, adjust the ratings that way. We are still discussing whether there will be other adjustments made for live cards (ie. do we add extra bonuses for past week or past 10 days production?), but we will announce that all around release time.

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Agree. And I do realize my suggestion is a pretty big ask. If we need to suffice with Salary Cap-esque challenges during OOTP 20 and this couldn't come until OOTP 21 that would be totally fine.
The main leagues won't have a salary cap. However, we do plan on having many tournaments on, and a large number of them will have a form of "salary cap" to them, so that should be a nice way to test your skill if you like that challenge.
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