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Old 08-18-2016, 12:10 PM   #1
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How you identify a good/bad defensive catcher?

While many are waiting for another update, I figure I'd throw out some discussions for people to chew on.


What metrics available within OOTP do you use to analyze catchers defensively? Discuss.
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Old 08-18-2016, 12:44 PM   #2
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Primarily, I look at innings caught, passed balls, caught stealing percentage, and zone rating. Many times fielding data doesn't match up with the ratings.
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockdog View Post
Primarily, I look at innings caught, passed balls, caught stealing percentage, and zone rating. Many times fielding data doesn't match up with the ratings.
exactly, which is why I thought this could be a good discussion. Not that I want to turn this into a feature request thread, but do you feel some other defensive metrics specific to catchers should be included?
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Old 08-18-2016, 03:39 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by PSUColonel View Post
exactly, which is why I thought this could be a good discussion. Not that I want to turn this into a feature request thread, but do you feel some other defensive metrics specific to catchers should be included?
For ratings, I feel the catcher ability rating is too broad. I would split it into glovework (generating strikes and avoiding errors) and blocking/reflexes (avoiding passed balls and general reaction time). As far as metrics go, it would be great to have a runs saved metric like defensive runs saved or defensive runs above average. I think that would be a good supplement to zone rating.
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Old 08-18-2016, 05:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockdog View Post
For ratings, I feel the catcher ability rating is too broad. I would split it into glovework (generating strikes and avoiding errors) and blocking/reflexes (avoiding passed balls and general reaction time). As far as metrics go, it would be great to have a runs saved metric like defensive runs saved or defensive runs above average. I think that would be a good supplement to zone rating.
Agreed, I feel many of the rating are too broad..especially on defense. For catcher, I like what you are saying..other positions such as ss for example..maybe things such as the ability to charge balls, throw on the run and others. All of these ratings could then form more general ratings such as Range, and arm.
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Old 08-18-2016, 08:59 PM   #6
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well as for metrics available in this game you can look as his ZR and see what that sees. obviously to keep it short you don't want it in the negatives or under 5 for a season.
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Old 08-18-2016, 09:02 PM   #7
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I find CERA to be interesting and useful in that it appears to be persistent over time. While not useful to directly compare catchers on different teams, my catcher with the lowest CERA tends to remain that over several seasons.
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:47 AM   #8
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I guess I was doing this all wrong. I had only been looking at his arm, figuring that's what he needed to throw runners out. I hadn't dug any deeper than that.
Thanks for bringing this up. You've go me thinking.
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip View Post
I find CERA to be interesting and useful in that it appears to be persistent over time. While not useful to directly compare catchers on different teams, my catcher with the lowest CERA tends to remain that over several seasons.
I haven't put much stock in CERA because he doesn't really have any significant affect on this stat. Plus it varies by pitcher, the rest of the defense and the park.

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Old 08-20-2016, 11:26 AM   #10
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I guess I was doing this all wrong. I had only been looking at his arm, figuring that's what he needed to throw runners out. I hadn't dug any deeper than that.
Thanks for bringing this up. You've go me thinking.

So if its not arm, how do you determine what will make an effective catcher with throwing guys out?
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:52 AM   #11
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So if its not arm, how do you determine what will make an effective catcher with throwing guys out?
Stolen base percentage maybe.
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Old 08-20-2016, 12:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgjocki View Post
I haven't put much stock in CERA because he doesn't really have any significant affect on this stat. Plus it varies by pitcher, the rest of the defense and the park.

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Old 08-20-2016, 01:18 PM   #13
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It's tough to judge the C stuff in isolation. If your staff sucks at holding runners, even a good armed C will struggle with CS. If your SP/defence sucks, cERA will look bad. Best thing you can do is pick a C with good defence and then try to figure out how best to help your C.
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Old 08-20-2016, 05:23 PM   #14
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It would be nice if we got a framing stat
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Old 08-20-2016, 05:45 PM   #15
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CS rate isn't that great because the best guys at catching runners (at least in OOTP) don't get run on all that often, and when they do get run on its by guys who are elite base stealers.

I had a guy with 10/10 Catcher Arm and ability, no other catcher In the league had a 10 in either or 9 in both. Some did have high position rating, even having inferior ratings. The 10/10 guy always had roughly 30% less SB attempts against, but his CS rate was around league average
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Old 08-21-2016, 03:11 PM   #16
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Old 08-21-2016, 03:12 PM   #17
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUColonel View Post
While many are waiting for another update, I figure I'd throw out some discussions for people to chew on.


What metrics available within OOTP do you use to analyze catchers defensively? Discuss.
I limit myself to choosing a catcher with high ratings in Defensive Ability. (20-80 scale). If he has any kind of speed above what is expected of a catcher, and/or on the BNN page has leadership qualities than that is a bonus. So much of what a catcher can and cannot do is hidden within the makeup of the pitching staff.
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:53 PM   #19
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I still don't zero in on metrics very often. For me, it's does he have a good arm or not?
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:11 PM   #20
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I use ratings since catchers defensive stats don't tell me much. But for the most part I don't care. If they can hit then I play them. If they can't hit then no amount of defense can make up for that lost value. Unless I have a terrible team of a black hole on my depth chart at catcher.
And since even the most durable catchers catch about 130-140 games a season then you can exploit platoons L/R splits.
I have combined two above average catchers who hit one side really well vs the other and turned them into borderline all-stars if you combined them.
The combined cost has sometimes been 8 million a year for .910 OPS and that is combined salary.


Across my entire team I don't care much about defense. All else being equal I will of course go with the better defender. But I never play a offensive black hole even at CF/SS. The defensive value just never saves enough runs to make it worthwhile.


All that goes out the window if I am a crappy team or rebuilding and just looking for warm bodies.
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