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Old 03-21-2011, 08:14 AM   #1
The_Cobra
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Cobra's Management Mod (Now, Syd Thrift's)

As stated in another thread, I'm working on a management mod for TBCB.

As promised in the other thread, I'll throw up some screenshots of some of the things I'm working on. I'm not sure how well these pics will show up but hopefully they will show you that this is being seriously worked on.

Few things to remember before you look at these pics....

1) I'm a novice developer right at the start of his trade. This thing will start off basic, and get more and more advanced as time goes by. If your not impressed with how things look right now, thats because your not really supposed to be impressed. When a bridge is first built, first you have to build the foundations before you build the bridge, and the foundations never look impressive. Sometimes you look at a bridge being built and you think "man that looks like a mess", but when the bridge is finished, you finally see the beauty behind the original vision. Bear that in mind.

2) You'll probably look at these pics and think, why has he put "so and so" in there, or, why has he put so-and-so as a welterweight. IMPORTANT NOTE: All of the things you see in there right now are just for me to play around with. You cant test something unless you have some data to work with, so I just threw a load of names in there, into any old weight category without thinking too much. Everything you see in these pics is temporary and subject to change. I'm hoping that people on here will help me shape this mod going into the future, but right now, things are the way they are because they have to be, because accuracy in this stage is not important.

On with the pics:






Clicking on any of these pictures will open a new window to the site where they are uploaded. Click on it again to blow it up full size.


There's tons more I need to explain, but this is a long term project so I wont bore you with all the details right now because I'd be here all day. I will check in at least once a day from now to update the thread and to get any suggestions from you guys.

This thread will be continually updated. I will consider this thread to be the official thread for the mod, so any questions, suggestions, or anything to do with the mod can go in here.

If there are any questions, fire away, thats what this thread is here for.

Salut!
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Old 03-21-2011, 10:19 AM   #2
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Cobra thats looks pretty awesome, do you have msn??
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:07 PM   #3
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First off Cobra all credit to you for attempting to do this, not an easy task at all.
I think it is marvellous how active this community is. Sure other games have active communities too, Football Manager, for example, has a very active community that produce skins, alternate graphics, databases, etc. But Football Manager sells a million plus games. I think given how small our fan base is then much credit needs to be given to all the guys that have given us photo packs, incredibily detailed universe reports, alternate schedulers, ideas on how to run universes, etc and so much more, kudos to you all really.

Secondly I am pretty impressed by your screenshots Cobra. They show what can be done and promise much for your mod. No need to make excuses for your screenies; they are good and you are doing something pro-active.

I will be emailing you shortly and I look forward to hearing more about your mod.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:48 PM   #4
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Have to echo Rob's comments here, looks great.

Can only imagine the amount of dedication and time put into something of this size.

You deserve applause for reaching this stage on your own back through sheer determination.
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:55 PM   #5
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Khan looking very tasty at 900 !

Looking forward to this
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:03 AM   #6
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Outstanding job Cobra, looking forward to eventually getting my hands on this.

Question, dose the mod automatically or will it automatically extract the active fighters in your current universe and place them in the mod or is it manual?
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Morris View Post
I think it is marvellous how active this community is. Sure other games have active communities too, Football Manager, for example, has a very active community that produce skins, alternate graphics, databases, etc. But Football Manager sells a million plus games. I think given how small our fan base is then much credit needs to be given to all the guys that have given us photo packs, incredibily detailed universe reports, alternate schedulers, ideas on how to run universes, etc and so much more, kudos to you all really.
Could not have said it better myself, really. I've ghosted these forums for a couple of years (on and off), and am always impressed by people's enthusiasm on here. Quite simply, if this community was'nt here doing what it does, this project would not be worth doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Question, dose the mod automatically or will it automatically extract the active fighters in your current universe and place them in the mod or is it manual?
The first good question! Unfortunately, because of my low experience level with VB, certain tasks will have to be manual to begin with, and the mod will have to be used in a certain way (like manually importing fight results into the mod by typing them in, or at least selecting the result with mouse movements). I will make these tasks as simple and as least time consuming as I can. This means that the mod and TBCB will have to run side-by-side, both at the same time, and the user will find himself switching from one to the other to complete his tasks.

Over time, this will change hopefully to include more automated running.

I've seen visual basic do some pretty insane things, like being able to control flash games in a web browser via a visual basic prog (automated keystrokes and mouse movements using techniques like image recognition - in other words, the vb app "becomes" the human and operates the flash game according to pre-set rules as if it were a human playing it). I'm nowhere near that level yet, and getting a visual basic app to "talk" to a program developed in C++ would be the ultimate challenge, but I guess thats the long term goal. If full automation cant be done in visual basic (in the long term), then I will eventually switch to a developing language that can handle it - who knows, probably even C++ itself.

The long term end result will hopefully be something that is 100% automated, but right now to begin with, quite a few operations will have to be manually performed by the user. This will of course require a high deal of honesty from the user (You could just tell the mod your boxer won when he actually lost and you could get away with it - but the way I see it, you'd just be cheating yourself out of an experience if you did that - and anyway, any attempts to cheat yourself would end up with data in TBCB not tallying up with data in the mod - so you'd just end up messing yourself up by cheating.....which if you think about it, is a great incentive not to cheat!).

Got loads to do today so I'll crack on. One day this week I will set out a detailed post which describes exactly how this thing will work to begin with - I know I havent explained much so far, but I have a mega busy day today (including a dentists appointment ) - and I've definitely waffled on long enough today.

I dont have MSN right now (I'm not a big fan of chat apps - had a bad experience with one a few years back and got hacked and havent bothered since) but all emails are welcome and will be replied to. Just send me a PM and ask for my email address and ye shall have it.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:31 AM   #8
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This looks very interesting. It also looks like loads of work, my hat is off to you!
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:00 PM   #9
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Beautiful screenshots, Cobra. Looks very smooth...cant wait to click on some of those options!! Thank you, so much, for your time and effort.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:35 PM   #10
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Thanks for the comments so far, people. The encouragement is trully appreciated.

I've got something for you guys to think about if your up for it. I'm at the point where I need to start making some decisions and it's important that I get as much user input as possible so that people are going to be happy with what gets released.

First of all I need to explain how the mod will work, and how the corresponding TBCB universe will be set up, and then I need to ask you for your input.

To begin with (and its only to begin with), I'm going to have to tie things down fairly strictly with a limited choice of boxers. This is only for the first few versions, in the end I want the mod to be able to have anyone you want in there, but just to begin with and to allow me to crack on with some specific tasks, I need to tie the options down.

The universe will be set up like this:

80 boxers
8 weight divisions (10 boxers in each)
1 title per division

Pretty much the way it's laid out in one of the screenshots I posted up. I must stress again, this is only to begin with so that I can get an early version posted out in terms of weeks rather than months. Once I've got a couple of early tied down versions released, then I can build on top of that and make the mod more configurable so that I dont have to limit the options.

So this is where you come in. I need to know which boxers you prefer to see in the mod, and if possible, rough valuations for them. Have a look at the "choose your boxers" screenshot to see what kind of thing I'm going to need. I need as many suggestions as possible. Please bear in mind that just for the early versions, we're sticking to the current era. Again, this will not be tied down so tightly in later versions and you will have more choice. Also please bear in mind that we need to make the suggestions as global as possible, so try not to make suggestions that are all the same nationality. We need a good mix of boxers from all around the world.

Just something for you to think about.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:20 PM   #11
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This looks great Cobra. I really think this is the best gaming community around bar none.
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:38 PM   #12
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Darn it, I was looking at doing something similar!!!

Seriously, though, if you need some help and think you can delegate some stuffs, I'm good in C# and decent enough in C++ to help with a lot of this. PM me if you can! Or shoot me an email at johnny_slick (at-sign) comcast.net.
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:32 AM   #13
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This is shaping upto be something good!!
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Darn it, I was looking at doing something similar!!!

Seriously, though, if you need some help and think you can delegate some stuffs, I'm good in C# and decent enough in C++ to help with a lot of this. PM me if you can! Or shoot me an email at johnny_slick (at-sign) comcast.net.

PM sent. Any and all help gratefully recieved
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:29 AM   #15
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I think given how small our fan base is then much credit needs to be given to all the guys that have given us photo packs, incredibily detailed universe reports, alternate schedulers
You said the magic word.....alternate schedulers.....the auto scheduler in TBCB is'nt going to be able to do what I need it to do so I need something a bit more specific and customisable. Can you point me in the direction of anyone who has done work in this area? I've had a quick look through the forum and cant find anything along those lines, but anyone who has done any alternate scheduling work with excel or access would be a big asset to this project.....was hoping to check cornerwork but that seems to have gone?

Failing that, I've seen one or two great examples on here of people who did their own (manual) scheduling for their own universes. It wouldnt be too hard to code something up to automate the process to a specific set of rules but I was hoping someone had already done some work in that area.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:56 AM   #16
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Here is the link Cobra

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...niversing.html

A word of warning though the guy who made it said it could only handle a maximum of 50 boxers.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:13 AM   #17
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Excellent thread, Rob - thanks very much for that.

After getting some advice from Syd, and also from reading a couple of pages into that thread, its occuring to me that using excel spreadsheets even within vb is not going to be a good idea. Thats no problem though because something can just as easily be coded from scratch.

That thread is invaluable to me though, the spreadsheet alone can give me tons of ideas of how to code something similar. I downloaded from the link in post #63 in that thread so I'm hoping that was the latest one before dude wrapped it up. He did some bloody stirling work on that by the looks of it.
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I need to know which boxers you prefer to see in the mod, and if possible, rough valuations for them.
I had a look at your startup screenie that show the option of startup cash and boxers valuations. Some questions to help understand and hopefully give you useful suggestions;

Is the initial expenditure on a boxer the sole cash output, for example, is there training costs? Or any other additional costs?

Staying on the money side of things, is there any sort of return, so that a balancing of the books is required. ie a boxer with a bigger draw will generate greater interest, hence a larger purse - a percentage of which the player receives.

Sorry to throw lots of questions at you, just trying to gauge correct valuations for boxers.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My line of thinking is;

Startup cash of £50million ($80.79million US Dollars) on easy would currently allow the player to gather a stable of all champions and then some.

Easy should perhaps only allow the player to gather one of the games' superstars and a lesser champion or contenders.

For example, Manny Pacquiao £40million and say Odlanier Solis £7.5million.

(Solis value so high despite only contender status due to the weight division he is in. Which is relative to potential money generated from any championship fights.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would start to break down the weight divisions in order of profitability, importance.

The Heavyweights historically has been top dog, Middleweight and so on.

The above would no doubt have to be part of a larger calculation, as a fighter who is Bantamweight champion, and has a draw power rating of 10, would still not garner a purse that resembles a fighter who is Heavyweight champion and has a draw power rating of 5.

And as such
the boxers should ideally be valued in correlation to standing, draw power and weight class as I've skated around.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course these suggestions are dependant upon how you envision the mod, I could be going off track here, especially if there is no expenditure, income side to the mod. But if any of what I've mentioned helps in any way, be enough.

I have lots more questions to ask you, but will wait before unloading more onto you.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:49 PM   #19
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It's surprising how quickly you can just suddenly "get" programming. A few short months ago I was thinking about something similar but didn't even know where to start. Last night I spent just a couple hours putting together a test program which takes the fighters.csv file the game generates and makes it into a list collection of fighters which I'll be able to use to schedule peeps, track stuff like BoxRec rating, and so on. I'm not sure how well I'll be able to coordinate with with Cobra but I'll just keep plugging away and hopefully we can reach some sort of promontory point or something where we can link this all up.
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Old 03-28-2011, 01:40 PM   #20
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Thats perfect, i cant wait to test it.

If you need a SQA/TESTER im you men
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