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Old 02-15-2010, 05:05 PM   #41
darkcloud4579
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Dola --

I just wanted you all to know that, in part because I didn't realize how many people were using this tool over the years, I've gone back into development on a web-based version of this tool. I have no idea how long it'll take me, so don't necessarily get your hopes up, but...I am working on and I do have the time, so...I'm hoping to have something useful, streamlined and well improved in some time or another for everyone.

Stay tuned.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:13 PM   #42
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Dola --

I just wanted you all to know that, in part because I didn't realize how many people were using this tool over the years, I've gone back into development on a web-based version of this tool. I have no idea how long it'll take me, so don't necessarily get your hopes up, but...I am working on and I do have the time, so...I'm hoping to have something useful, streamlined and well improved in some time or another for everyone.

Stay tuned.
Great news!
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:05 PM   #43
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Any updates on this?
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:21 PM   #44
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Hmm...I've begun doing some plotting, but...no real timeline as of yet. That said, you all can use this thread as a place to give me suggestions about things you'd like to see in a new tool. With the "owner personalities" and such, there might be more ways I can use OOTP to simulate a lot of what GMExcel does, though I still think the game is far from in a place that we could integrate everything into it, because nothing stays consistent long enough to make it work.

I'm still messing around with it now that beta is over, to really see what ways I can improve the tool for a new version.
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:05 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by darkcloud4579 View Post
Hmm...I've begun doing some plotting, but...no real timeline as of yet. That said, you all can use this thread as a place to give me suggestions about things you'd like to see in a new tool. With the "owner personalities" and such, there might be more ways I can use OOTP to simulate a lot of what GMExcel does, though I still think the game is far from in a place that we could integrate everything into it, because nothing stays consistent long enough to make it work.

I'm still messing around with it now that beta is over, to really see what ways I can improve the tool for a new version.
maybe a way to implement owner personality into firemanager?
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Old 04-25-2010, 11:58 PM   #46
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maybe a way to implement owner personality into firemanager?
Hmm...strangely enough, the owner personalities might make the tool easier to implement for this new version and I can scrap the way it's developed now. Good suggestion, I'll start messing around with this this week...I think and should have something out to you all sooner than later.
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:39 PM   #47
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Will it be web-based or another spreadsheet?
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:57 PM   #48
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I want to make it web-based, I just don't really know where to start, as my skills are somewhat limited. I'm going to talk to some developer friends next week and see what they suggest.
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Old 05-01-2010, 10:59 PM   #49
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DC,

I have two questions for you. I apologize if I missed these being mentioned in the thread.

1) Do you have a good source of historical market data? I'm finding some good stuff about TV markets, and of course I can go on city population data, but I'm more interested in finding out something like: How many people lived in the New YorkCity/Nothern NJ/Long Island market in 1930? I'm extremely interested in using Accountant X and need some good historical market population data. I guess a question within this question. Do you have any idea, historically, how markets influenced attendance/media revenue? Like...maybe earlier in the century, it was mostly city folk that impacted team revenues rather than the surrounding market?

Basically, would city population data be reliable in Accountant X for pre-television years?

2) At what point in the season do you input the data from Excel into the game? Last day of season? First day of off-season? First Day of Pre-Season?

Thank you for any insight you have!
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:13 PM   #50
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Also, as far as owner personalities go...

In my solo league now, I'm not currently managing a team, so FireManagerX and the "owner patience" value is something I'm not really thinking about, even though I realize the value can be used in the app for something...

But I certainly have been thinking about how the owner spending value can be integrated into Accountant X.

I've been working on something very similar to what you have created, although I'm still much happier with the results you're system comes up with.

Anyway, one thing that has been bugging me in OOTP11 is just how much the owner spending can impact the budget of a small market team. For example, I have a team in St. Paul. I think I gave them a "4" in market size. After 10 years though, the market size remained constant (which is great), but because the owner had a 10 under owner spending, they were the #2 payroll, above teams like New York (15 market size), Brooklyn (15), Chicago (12) and another Chicago team (12).

So, at least in my mind, what I did was add a modifier from (-0.05) to (0.04), with (-0.05) equaling a 1 owner spending value, (-0.04) equaling a 2, etc. etc.

That way, to make an easy example, the Yankees with their 200,000,000 payroll and a 10 owner spending value, would get an extra 8,000,000 in their budget. That seems reasonable to me. That way, the owner might reach into his pocket to outbid someone or extend a key free agent, but won't single-handedly inject enough cash to buy a whole infield's worth of superstar free agents. He'll need the market and attendance to be able to do that.

Just any idea for you to think about. You definitely know more about this than I do, so maybe I'm undervaluing the importance of owner spending?
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:16 PM   #51
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Heh..one more question now that I'm thinking about it and have the file open..

Cash and Budget...Why are they separate values? What changes in OOTP if, say, I had 100,000,000 budget and 10,000,000 cash, compared to 90,000,000 budget and 20,000,000 cash?
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Old 05-01-2010, 11:26 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanivr View Post
DC,

I have two questions for you. I apologize if I missed these being mentioned in the thread.

1) Do you have a good source of historical market data? I'm finding some good stuff about TV markets, and of course I can go on city population data, but I'm more interested in finding out something like: How many people lived in the New YorkCity/Nothern NJ/Long Island market in 1930? I'm extremely interested in using Accountant X and need some good historical market population data. I guess a question within this question. Do you have any idea, historically, how markets influenced attendance/media revenue? Like...maybe earlier in the century, it was mostly city folk that impacted team revenues rather than the surrounding market?

Basically, would city population data be reliable in Accountant X for pre-television years?

2) At what point in the season do you input the data from Excel into the game? Last day of season? First day of off-season? First Day of Pre-Season?

Thank you for any insight you have!
1. No, the tool was made specifically for modern baseball. It's pretty useless for years beyond that, though I did try to rig it using other inflation data for past years, it's really not a good tool for assuming media money in the "old days" because really, the money issues baseball experiences now are a relatively recent creation due to cable rights and such.

2. I'd input the data into the game at the end of the off-season before free agency.

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Also, as far as owner personalities go...

In my solo league now, I'm not currently managing a team, so FireManagerX and the "owner patience" value is something I'm not really thinking about, even though I realize the value can be used in the app for something...

But I certainly have been thinking about how the owner spending value can be integrated into Accountant X.

I've been working on something very similar to what you have created, although I'm still much happier with the results you're system comes up with.

Anyway, one thing that has been bugging me in OOTP11 is just how much the owner spending can impact the budget of a small market team. For example, I have a team in St. Paul. I think I gave them a "4" in market size. After 10 years though, the market size remained constant (which is great), but because the owner had a 10 under owner spending, they were the #2 payroll, above teams like New York (15 market size), Brooklyn (15), Chicago (12) and another Chicago team (12).

So, at least in my mind, what I did was add a modifier from (-0.05) to (0.04), with (-0.05) equaling a 1 owner spending value, (-0.04) equaling a 2, etc. etc.

That way, to make an easy example, the Yankees with their 200,000,000 payroll and a 10 owner spending value, would get an extra 8,000,000 in their budget. That seems reasonable to me. That way, the owner might reach into his pocket to outbid someone or extend a key free agent, but won't single-handedly inject enough cash to buy a whole infield's worth of superstar free agents. He'll need the market and attendance to be able to do that.

Just any idea for you to think about. You definitely know more about this than I do, so maybe I'm undervaluing the importance of owner spending?
Well, if the owner effectively tells a team he wants to spend, then they'll spend. Think of the owner as a corporate owner, say the CEO of a major firm that's writing off the losses (or the profits) from the team, rather than an owner who is the sole arbiter of whatever. In that instance, a team located in an otherwise small market, might be able to contend with big city teams.

If this offends your senses (and I think it might mine, depending on the scenario) then I'd just say go into the game and lower the owner's spending from where it is to something more befitting a tight fisted small market owner. In a way, how it's implemented in the game is good because I guess in theory it means we can control the spending of small market teams better. But it still requires too much tinkering and that's really where the problem is (and why we're all goofing around in an Excel spreadsheet to achieve realism. Heh) so...i dunno, that'd be the easier way to handle it and not to have to deal with it until that owner dies and just edit the new one(s) the same way.

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Heh..one more question now that I'm thinking about it and have the file open..

Cash and Budget...Why are they separate values? What changes in OOTP if, say, I had 100,000,000 budget and 10,000,000 cash, compared to 90,000,000 budget and 20,000,000 cash?
Budget is based on future revenues and enables you to spend up to a certain amount based on that, whereas cash is just useful for trades and such alike. The distinction is fine, though the way "budget" is used in the game probably isn't accurate. But if you have $100m in your budget, you won't have $100m in cash to spend on acquiring FAs or more importantly, to release players or eat contracts should you need to. That's the real distinction between budget and cash-on-hand.

I only have it that way in the tool, because it's that way in the game.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:51 PM   #53
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I've been messing around in a capped league lately and after doing some research, discovered that raising visiting team gate revenues to 40% from 20% does a great job of creating equity in a way that revenue sharing or other artificial measures do not. I like the results I'm seeing with it, especially in conjunction with my salary cap calculator.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:29 PM   #54
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I'm working with the capnsalarycrunch and I'm wondering where you find the league average salary? and the League avg payroll?
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:32 PM   #55
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I'm working with the capnsalarycrunch and I'm wondering where you find the league average salary? and the League avg payroll?
Go the team menu and click on Advanced Financials. On the left hand side you'll see league average payroll and league average salary. Took me a while to find league average payroll (or to know it was there), it's sorta hidden.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:48 PM   #56
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Go the team menu and click on Advanced Financials. On the left hand side you'll see league average payroll and league average salary. Took me a while to find league average payroll (or to know it was there), it's sorta hidden.
Based on this utility every team would be over the cap except 2. There is a pretty clear outlier at the bottom should I throw that out?
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:52 PM   #57
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Based on this utility every team would be over the cap except 2. There is a pretty clear outlier at the bottom should I throw that out?
If you are using the latest version I released (check the capnsalarycrunch thread) and are still finding that problem, then revert to the original version. There might be a problem if you're don't have enough media money in your league. I've tested it in leagues where the media revenue was set static among teams and I think (I hadn't thought of this until now) that in leagues where it's variable, the lack of cash in-flow leaves my new formula unable to produce the sorts of result I was aiming for. (Namely, to lower the cap a bit but still have it higher than it'd be normally)

The original one doesn't take into account league average salary and so, it should work fine no matter what your media situation is.
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:53 PM   #58
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Taking out the outlier still left the salary cap lower than 27 teams. I don't mind changing this but it should make things difficult and odd for a few seasons. Any idea how I should manage the switch? Should I drop it down in increments over a particular number of years?
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Old 05-09-2010, 10:58 PM   #59
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If you are using the latest version I released (check the capnsalarycrunch thread) and are still finding that problem, then revert to the original version. There might be a problem if you're don't have enough media money in your league. I've tested it in leagues where the media revenue was set static among teams and I think (I hadn't thought of this until now) that in leagues where it's variable, the lack of cash in-flow leaves my new formula unable to produce the sorts of result I was aiming for. (Namely, to lower the cap a bit but still have it higher than it'd be normally)

The original one doesn't take into account league average salary and so, it should work fine no matter what your media situation is.
Thanks. I used the older file and it gave me a much better number.

What do you set media money at for your leagues? Is it a percentage of the salary cap or what?
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:20 PM   #60
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Thanks. I used the older file and it gave me a much better number.

What do you set media money at for your leagues? Is it a percentage of the salary cap or what?
Honestly, I play fast-sim (no injuries, low fatigue, no tinkering at all once the season has started) so my numbers really don't bear witness to reality in a sense. I usually play at $65m per team, but I've gone with lower and higher, really..so long as the number is the same for all of the teams I find this is a good way to keep OOTP's financial situation in check. There's too much tinkering necessary to really keep it afloat to mimic real life, so instead of doing that, I just try to stabilize it and then let other things determine how teams do, because it's not worth it.

Another technique I've adopted is a 40% visitors share of ticket revenue. Between that and adopting the same media market number -- no matter what it is -- I find that it keeps budgets still a healthy distance apart from each other based on performance factors that drive attendance and stuff, but doesn't allow OOTP to get all haywire in the ways it tends to. (Like altering media markets based on performance)

Coupling that with a variable salary cap has allowed great teams to remain great, but still lets bad teams eventually compete either because they stockpile enough prospects and get enough cap room to move or for other reasons.
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