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Old 05-13-2019, 02:23 PM   #1
Goliathus
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Non-RL Two Way Players

More of a question for the hardcore simmers, anyone of you ever had successful non-RL, MLB caliber two-way players in your sim? I am just curious if the engine can truly generate a two-way star that survives the development randomness.
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:40 AM   #2
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Yes. I seem to have the most success with guys who end up being solid relievers along with being a bench or platoon bat. Haven't seen anything like an Ohtani yet.
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Old 05-15-2019, 09:17 PM   #3
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This is such a blown out of proportion gimmick. I turn it off as the AI will go nuts with using them. Ohtani can't stay healthy so he is going to be picking a side here anyway shortly. Do people really like this option?
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:50 AM   #4
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I've seen them in our online league, which is 60 years into the future. And some with the potential to be all stars at either pitching or as a hitter. I haven't seen many try to use them at all though.

I like the feature as it at least gives the opportunity to in other eras (1920s and earlier) to use pitchers in the field since there were some who were decent hitters.

Adding the functionality for Ohtani basically brought with it the functionality to have the AI cope with players who weren't black-and-white pitcher or hitter.

If you look behind the code of any baseball game, you're going to see things in there written to assume that a player is a pitcher or a player is a batter and there's no grey area. Now OOTP has a little less of that.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:32 PM   #5
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This is such a blown out of proportion gimmick. I turn it off as the AI will go nuts with using them. Ohtani can't stay healthy so he is going to be picking a side here anyway shortly. Do people really like this option?
I like it. It makes guys like Michael Lorenzen a lot more valuable.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Let'sGoBraves View Post
This is such a blown out of proportion gimmick. I turn it off as the AI will go nuts with using them. Ohtani can't stay healthy so he is going to be picking a side here anyway shortly. Do people really like this option?
I am sure everyone has their preference but I do like it.



---------------------------------------

I asked the same question on Reddit and people there do have more results with two-way players. Someone simmed 500 years in OOTP19 and got 3 two-way HOF, with only one being a true two-way who did great in both. Other two are great in one and average in the other.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:51 PM   #7
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Any feature that better accommodates Brooks Kieschnik I'm all for. :P
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:56 PM   #8
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There are two of them in my fictional league (OOTP19). They're both young, they're both P-OF, one is a starting pitcher and one is a reliever. I've noticed the AI is reluctant to bring the reliever in from center field to pitch -- if he was on my team I'd be doing that a lot.
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Old 05-17-2019, 07:53 PM   #9
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Hoping the images show up correctly. I had this guy who was a starting pitcher and outfielder for his entire career. Did manage to win the best pitcher award one season which was pretty impressive.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:28 PM   #10
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Old 05-18-2019, 02:00 AM   #11
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What I've done, if I find a player who has ratings in both batting and pitching, is make them a 2-way player. If the player doesn't develop the way you expect (which is often), you can still use him. Example, I took a SP with a 60 Gap potential (much better indicator than contact or power, BTW) and had him play 2 ways. 2 years later, he had a 6 ERA and a 10 ERA for my GCL team; meanwhile, he had a .362 OBP, as a 3B. I switched off using him as a 2 way player. 2 years later, he's hitting .270 at AA with above average power. If I hadn't used him as a 2 way player, he would've just wasted away as a rookie league pitcher.

Added bonus: I will often purge the rookie leagues (because how are they going to develop, if there's 75 players?) and sometimes I'll be left short-handed, meaning 2 way players come in handy.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:38 AM   #12
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This is in 19, but in my most recent small fictional league I signed a star 1B in free agency with my expansion team that is also a passable knuckleball starter. The time off from the bat has probably cost him around 50-75 home runs in his career, and he was coming off a really rough season on the mound when I signed him. As an expansion team in a small league, he was my best starter from the get go, but I only pitched him for about a month since I'm manually doing a draft lottery so I wanted to tank.
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Old 05-19-2019, 07:24 PM   #13
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I like it because historically, especially up to around 1920, 2 way players were out there in some way, shape, or form. 19th century pitchers in particular often blew out their arms by the time they were 25 but stuck around in the majors if they could hit well. Monte Ward is the most prominent example of that I can think of. Of course at the tail end of that period you had Babe Ruth.

I think that an alternative read to "this is just a gimmick" is that it was something baseball did when it was still figuring itself out, stopped for a while, and then recently has started to rediscover the concept. I'm sure there were plenty of guys who could have gone both ways between 1920 and 2015 but didn't. I can immediately think of Rich Ankiel and because he went to my high school John Olerud (he wasn't considered to have a great arm but he was kind of a beast in college before his aneurysm). Brooks Kieschnick of course actually did this in the 90s.

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Old 05-22-2019, 04:57 AM   #14
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I like it because historically, especially up to around 1920, 2 way players were out there in some way, shape, or form. 19th century pitchers in particular often blew out their arms by the time they were 25 but stuck around in the majors if they could hit well. Monte Ward is the most prominent example of that I can think of. Of course at the tail end of that period you had Babe Ruth.

I think that an alternative read to "this is just a gimmick" is that it was something baseball did when it was still figuring itself out, stopped for a while, and then recently has started to rediscover the concept. I'm sure there were plenty of guys who could have gone both ways between 1920 and 2015 but didn't. I can immediately think of Rich Ankiel and because he went to my high school John Olerud (he wasn't considered to have a great arm but he was kind of a beast in college before his aneurysm). Brooks Kieschnick of course actually did this in the 90s.

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I would add to this, that this is quite common in high school and college, because there aren't as many games, the rosters aren't as deep, and the players are all out there for playing time. Once you become a professional, and especially for "the money they're paying", it becomes vitally important to specialize; to be extremely good at one thing rather than sort of good at lots of things.

I think that's why pitchers hitting, has become a lost art. The league wants to move everyone to using a DH, so pitchers can just pitch. It's a bit boring from the perspective, that it eliminates a bit of strategy and novelty from the game; but makes it more exciting in the technical aspect of it all. So when you see a player like Ohtani, you say, "Gee, that's something different".
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Old 05-22-2019, 09:01 AM   #15
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I love the feature even though I dislike it in the real MLB.

I have had multiple Hall of Famers in my League that were two way players. One player had 300 wins and 500 homeruns.
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:36 PM   #16
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I've noticed the AI is reluctant to bring the reliever in from center field to pitch -- if he was on my team I'd be doing that a lot.
Is the designated hitter enabled?
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