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Old 05-10-2019, 08:36 PM   #21
Matter2003
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Darn... if you ever upgrade to C# I'd be all over this.
C# is not usually used for game development and in this case it woukd likely not be an upgrade per se...

C++ is the gold standard for game development for many reasons and that likely isnt to chsnge anytime soon. I do agree that C++ is a language that is in real need of a makeover. There is complexity that is needed and then therr is complexity for complexity's sake. Too often C++ falls into the latter category...it says a lot when guys who have programmed for a decade in C++ for their job still consider themselves relative novices.
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Old 05-11-2019, 01:40 PM   #22
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C# is not usually used for game development and in this case it woukd likely not be an upgrade per se...

C++ is the gold standard for game development for many reasons and that likely isnt to chsnge anytime soon. I do agree that C++ is a language that is in real need of a makeover. There is complexity that is needed and then therr is complexity for complexity's sake. Too often C++ falls into the latter category...it says a lot when guys who have programmed for a decade in C++ for their job still consider themselves relative novices.
The closest competitor at this time is Rust, but it has its own set of issues. After working as a C/C++ developer for the past 5-years, I'm convinced the language either needs to stop adding new features and clean up old features, or needs to become a new language C+++.
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Old 05-11-2019, 04:03 PM   #23
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The closest competitor at this time is Rust, but it has its own set of issues. After working as a C/C++ developer for the past 5-years, I'm convinced the language either needs to stop adding new features and clean up old features, or needs to become a new language C+++.
It's heavily evolving year after year. I mean, you look at what you're able to do in it right now vs 10,15, or 20 years ago, and it virtually is a whole new language.
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Old 05-11-2019, 05:33 PM   #24
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Ehh, it's more about code quality than the language from what I've experienced. The only language that in and of itself ever sent me running for the hills was Perl. *shivers*
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:46 PM   #25
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*shivers*
What a cool way to end that sentence.
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Old 05-11-2019, 07:53 PM   #26
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It's heavily evolving year after year. I mean, you look at what you're able to do in it right now vs 10,15, or 20 years ago, and it virtually is a whole new language.
I think that is the problem though, the language has become bloated and full of dead weight. You could argue it's near a breaking point. At last year's CppCon, Bjarne Stroustrup openly admitted this for the first time and wrote a letter to the such (http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/d...18/p0977r0.pdf).


I'm curious (if y'all can share), what language makes up most of OOTPs code base? C++? Or is there a good mix?
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Old 05-11-2019, 09:01 PM   #27
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I think that is the problem though, the language has become bloated and full of dead weight. You could argue it's near a breaking point. At last year's CppCon, Bjarne Stroustrup openly admitted this for the first time and wrote a letter to the such (http://open-std.org/JTC1/SC22/WG21/d...18/p0977r0.pdf).


I'm curious (if y'all can share), what language makes up most of OOTPs code base? C++? Or is there a good mix?
The core is all c++ (it's all I work in). Obviously some of the PT-server stuff uses Java and PHP, since we're hiring for that And yeah, the problem is that so many projects out there are in C++ that it will never go away, but people are getting more creative and more advanced in adding in new features. Whether that's actually a problem is hard to say, the good thing is that you never have to use the new stuff, so even if they bloat it up like crazy, as long as the core of it never changes, then it doesn't matter as much.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:56 AM   #28
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:25 AM   #29
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I'm not sure you can really build something as processor-intensive as OOTP can be with C#. I'm a .NET guy through and through but a lot of the things that makes C# far less of a headache than C++ are also what make the language not workable for something as deep as OOTP. Garbage collection, for instance: C# goes through and disposes of dead objects by itself every few seconds or so. For most enterprise applications this works just fine, but in a situation where you are potentially running hundreds of simulated games at once and need to get them to go as fast as possible, you need to be able to say exactly when any particular object is not just ready to be destroyed, but actually *gets* destroyed so you can re-allocate the memory it was using right then and there.
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Old 05-28-2019, 08:47 AM   #30
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Damn, if only I had started college sooner...

I'm currently in college for computer science with an emphasis on software development and I started with the specific hopes of working on an OOTP game. Hopefully you guys keep growing
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:45 AM   #31
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I'm not sure you can really build something as processor-intensive as OOTP can be with C#. I'm a .NET guy through and through but a lot of the things that makes C# far less of a headache than C++ are also what make the language not workable for something as deep as OOTP. Garbage collection, for instance: C# goes through and disposes of dead objects by itself every few seconds or so. For most enterprise applications this works just fine, but in a situation where you are potentially running hundreds of simulated games at once and need to get them to go as fast as possible, you need to be able to say exactly when any particular object is not just ready to be destroyed, but actually *gets* destroyed so you can re-allocate the memory it was using right then and there.
It is possible to do manual memory allocation or de-allocation using C#. Or, failing that you can offload your most intensive processing to a C/C++ component. Or refactor/improve your algorithms. It is absolutely possible to build something like OOTP in a language like C#.

The reason people say things like 'Y is not recommended for X' is that each language is more ergonomic towards a particular program space. C++ has good game development support, refined (fast) libraries, and lots of constructs for manual memory management. But I wouldn't write a web application in it (I could), there are better languages for that. C# would be mostly ergonomic for writing a game like OOTP, you would just be looking to refine and perhaps offload some of the most time-intensive work.

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