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Old 02-25-2015, 09:47 AM   #1
Anthropoid
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I am a retired professor of anthropology, and in graduate school one of my professors (a cultural anthropologist by the name of Bradd Shore) had a great interest in baseball as a iconic symbol of American culture. I played the game very sporadically as a boy and know the basic rules, but I've never been a "fan" per se. However, I've always thought it was an interesting game, and just never felt I had the time to get into it. Well I guess now I do feel I have that time so here I am as a new OOTP player!

Having 'played' for about 10 or 15 hours (well, a good 8 or 10 hours of that was really just floundering around in the UI and with a couple throw away startups to see how it works overall) I think I'm off to a good start.

I've got an Historical League with start in 1902 setup and I'm GM of the Cincinatti Reds. I've done a couple exhibition games, and gone through all of my players several times to get a handle on what resources I have. I feel like I have a decent lineup setup and depth chart too. The date is like Jan 15 so I figure I'll try to play an exhibition game about once every ten days till beginning of March then let them do spring training and then the season!

I'm not finding a manual in the game directory, though I reckon there must be such a thing (or an online wiki perhaps), so my numerous questions [hopefully someone can just point me to a handy resource like a wiki and say 'most all your questions will be addressed in that resource']:

1. I turned my ticket price down a few cents, I think it was at like $0.68 and I've turned it down to $0.63. I see the fans are pretty loyal and interested at Cincinatty so I figured making the games more accessibly might help increase volume?

2. My starting roster seems to be capped at 17 players, and I have about 5 reserve players (all of whom are quite crap). Is that normal?

3. I have two players for each defensive position, and 3 starting rotation pitchers. There are like 5 or 6 relief pitchers.

a. Is it really necessary to have that many relief pitchers?
b. What is the difference between a middle relief, long relief and emergency sp pitcher? I've assigned these roles to my relief pitchers based on my intuition of who fit each role best, but not sure.

4. Referring to the actual in-game play-by-play commands: What is the difference between say: "pitch," "Pitch to contact," "pitch outside," etc.?

5. Also, what is the difference (for batters) between: "Swing at pitch" "Wait for Pitch," etc.?

Lot more than that, but that is enough to get the ball rolling.

ADDIT: so I found the manual and the wiki (thanks to Txranger and The Game for your helpful posts!) so most of my questions will get answered on my own as I progress.

But if anyone feels like offering any comments or suggestions I appreciate it!

Amazing good game, and I can see that it is an exceptional strategy game.

Last edited by Anthropoid; 02-25-2015 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:43 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Anthropoid View Post
I am a retired professor of anthropology, and in graduate school one of my professors (a cultural anthropologist by the name of Bradd Shore) had a great interest in baseball as a iconic symbol of American culture. I played the game very sporadically as a boy and know the basic rules, but I've never been a "fan" per se. However, I've always thought it was an interesting game, and just never felt I had the time to get into it. Well I guess now I do feel I have that time so here I am as a new OOTP player!

Having 'played' for about 10 or 15 hours (well, a good 8 or 10 hours of that was really just floundering around in the UI and with a couple throw away startups to see how it works overall) I think I'm off to a good start.

I've got an Historical League with start in 1902 setup and I'm GM of the Cincinatti Reds. I've done a couple exhibition games, and gone through all of my players several times to get a handle on what resources I have. I feel like I have a decent lineup setup and depth chart too. The date is like Jan 15 so I figure I'll try to play an exhibition game about once every ten days till beginning of March then let them do spring training and then the season!

I'm not finding a manual in the game directory, though I reckon there must be such a thing (or an online wiki perhaps), so my numerous questions [hopefully someone can just point me to a handy resource like a wiki and say 'most all your questions will be addressed in that resource']:

1. I turned my ticket price down a few cents, I think it was at like $0.68 and I've turned it down to $0.63. I see the fans are pretty loyal and interested at Cincinatty so I figured making the games more accessibly might help increase volume?

2. My starting roster seems to be capped at 17 players, and I have about 5 reserve players (all of whom are quite crap). Is that normal?

3. I have two players for each defensive position, and 3 starting rotation pitchers. There are like 5 or 6 relief pitchers.

a. Is it really necessary to have that many relief pitchers?
b. What is the difference between a middle relief, long relief and emergency sp pitcher? I've assigned these roles to my relief pitchers based on my intuition of who fit each role best, but not sure.

4. Referring to the actual in-game play-by-play commands: What is the difference between say: "pitch," "Pitch to contact," "pitch outside," etc.?

5. Also, what is the difference (for batters) between: "Swing at pitch" "Wait for Pitch," etc.?

Lot more than that, but that is enough to get the ball rolling.

ADDIT: so I found the manual and the wiki (thanks to Txranger and The Game for your helpful posts!) so most of my questions will get answered on my own as I progress.

But if anyone feels like offering any comments or suggestions I appreciate it!

Amazing good game, and I can see that it is an exceptional strategy game.
Welcome to OOTP! I can say that you have now found a lifelong "hobby" (read: ADDICTION!) and that you have found a very good support group in these forums. To provide some answers to your questions:

1) Lowering ticket prices will always drum up more business but of course you may see a drop in revenues. Sometimes, fan interest in a team may have peaked and, no matter what you do, you may not draw anymore fans than you already get. I would experiment with the prices and see how the fan interest waxes and wanes according to the ticket prices and how well the team does from year to year. Sometimes, the default settings are your best bets. The game will modify financials season to season, especially if you are doing a historical replay.

2) I think 22 players is about normal for a turn of the century team. You can check out this post for more info:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...h-history.html

3) a -- Depending on how bad your pitching is, you may not use that many RPs.
b -- Long relievers come into a game when a starter gets shelled or has just thrown too many pitches in too few innings. They usually go at least 3 innings. Middle relievers go about 2 innings max. They take over when a starter has been taken out well before the 7th inning setup guys are ready to go. Emergency starters take over when a pitcher gets hurt early in a game or when they can't get out of the 1st.

4) If you click "Pitch to Contact", it means you're trying to induce an out and you want the batter to hit a decent pitch that will hopefully be directed at an infielder for a quick double play or out. "Pitch Out" means you think a runner on first or second is going to steal and the pitcher will throw a wide pitch while the catcher comes out of his stance to receive the ball and be ready to make a quicker throw to get the runner.

5) If you have a batter swing at a pitch, you're basically telling him to swing at the first good pitch he sees to catch the defense somewhat off-guard. "Wait for Pitch" means you want the batter to get a look at all the pitcher's offerings. The batter may strike out, or he may draw a walk, but it also helps his teammates get a better look at what the pitcher is throwing and it helps them develop better game plans to attack his pitches while also wearing down the pitcher by making him throw more pitches.

Hope these answers help.
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Old 02-26-2015, 12:01 AM   #3
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Thanks a ton Commish! Some excellent information.

I've stopped my first 1902 match, as I came to the realization that some of the historical players were cloned. So there were (for example) two Honus Wagoners, two Jerry Burketts, etc. I think some how the settings I used were not quite right. If there is one shortcoming to this game I'd have to say: the sheer number of options make it a bit difficult to get into at first.

What I'd like to play: an early date (though not necessarily as early as 1902, if some other date would better suffice), in which all the leagues and teams are populated with real players (as much as possible), in which incoming rookies each year are primarily derived from historical rookies, in which the rate of economic change and the growth of teams and leagues and the birth of new teams more or less follows an historical path, but in which pretty much everything else is not tied to history. So for example I could conceivably take a middling team like Cincinatti Reds, and through lots of recruiting and trading, build it into a strong team, win a pennant and over decades build the strongest team in history . . . or something along those lines.

Basically, a historical ahistorical campaign!

However, I'm not sure that the "Historical leagues" game setup option is what I want to be using, as it seems it is intended to model a game world in which a lot of the background and ecological proceseses are closely tied to history (e.g. trades, rehires, player development, etc.).

The other other thing I'd like in my game world (and I'm not sure if this is unrealistic or not) is for there to be an ample supply (perhaps somewhat less than ample in early years) of rookies to recruit from minor leagues, feeder leagues, etc.

Despite my having setup my original game with all the leagues, I was never really able to recruit from them, though I did only play about 3 months before I realized the duplicate players were there.

Any comments or suggestions?
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Old 02-26-2015, 01:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthropoid View Post
What I'd like to play: an early date (though not necessarily as early as 1902, if some other date would better suffice), in which all the leagues and teams are populated with real players (as much as possible), in which incoming rookies each year are primarily derived from historical rookies, in which the rate of economic change and the growth of teams and leagues and the birth of new teams more or less follows an historical path, but in which pretty much everything else is not tied to history. So for example I could conceivably take a middling team like Cincinatti Reds, and through lots of recruiting and trading, build it into a strong team, win a pennant and over decades build the strongest team in history . . . or something along those lines.


The other other thing I'd like in my game world (and I'm not sure if this is unrealistic or not) is for there to be an ample supply (perhaps somewhat less than ample in early years) of rookies to recruit from minor leagues, feeder leagues, etc.

Despite my having setup my original game with all the leagues, I was never really able to recruit from them, though I did only play about 3 months before I realized the duplicate players were there.

Any comments or suggestions?
I think historical will be the way to go. When you create a new historical sim, select your ear and year -- say, Deadball Era and 1905 -- and then check "Import complete history up to 1905". Leave the "random players" box unchecked. Make sure player ratings are optimized for Career Play then click "Next Step". On the next page, select how many levels of minors you want. I would suggest none since you want to use real historical players and there weren't many teams back then. This way, you'll just have the reserve roster. Click "Next Step". For player development, choose "Use talent ratings and OOTP development engine". This way, your players will not follow their historical career paths but will develop along new lines, enabling you to act as a scout and see which players may develop and which may not. Also, make sure the other 3 boxes on that page -- Automatically expand league, hold expansion draft, and automatic import of financial settings -- are all checked. These will enable historical teams to automatically enter your league and proper financials to be enabled. Click "Next Step". On the next page, figure out how accurate you want your scouting to be. And on the page after that. . . well, that should get you going towards how you want the league to be. Once the league is set up, go to Game then Game Settings then, under Available Actions, you can find the option to add minor league or feeder leagues or high school and college leagues if you want. The amateur draft should be automatically enabled. You can find it in the Rules section of the League Settings.
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:03 AM   #5
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Ah thanks Commish, sounds like I might have screwed it up by clicking the minor leagues to be included to early in the sequence.

ADDIT: one strange thing, when I get to this step
Quote:
On the next page, figure out how accurate you want your scouting to be.
I actually had to go into the Advanced Game Settings and tick "Use Complete Scouting System" in upper left in order to be able to select "Normal" Scouting accuracy. By default, it wants "Historical" to be at 100% accurate.

It is almost like the developers anticipated that most players will want to play historical settings in order to just "replay history," which . . . If I was a truly rabid baseball fan I could imagine doing! . . . but I'm all about the "alternate strategic historical path."

So one question about the settings that impact "fictional characters" and the ones that impact "minor leagues," amateurs, international free agents, and so on and so forth: if I want to have a decent chance to recruit better talent into my team, do I need to just play for a few years / decades to get to a point where these lower level institutions started to emerge (and the engine will generate them as they did emerge in historical fashion)? Or, by turning these things off (e.g., not ticking the minor leagues for example as you suggested) am I dooming my league to never have any of these subordinate sources of talent?

It is puzzling that I had clones in my previous play. I think it might have come from one of two sources:

1. When I was in the game setup window, I think I might have imported two databases? Something like that?

2. Using the ahistorical minor leagues, and saying that they needed full rosters (which at your recommendation, I'm not going to do this time).

3. (not exactly related to the clones, but another problem I think I had in my previous setup) I noticed someone saying that the "Auto expand league" and "Auto adjust financials" caused problems and I had those turned off.

It seems like, except for the Scouting System being set default to promote completely historical replay, the default settings in the various advanced and Game Settings tabs are inline with a "historical-ahistorical" play through like I want.

As such, I think I'm going to use default settings by and large and avoid any settings that might introduce fictional clones. However a few exceptions as I make my way through the Advanced Settings:

Hold Fantasy Inagural Draft: can't resist ticking this one on.
Pictures for all players and coaches.

Under the Players Tab:
International FA /Discoveries
Generate International Established FA
Generate FA from Independent Leagues: I also turned these three on and set them all the the intermediate "default" settings.

ADDIT: Oh wow! Fantasy Inaugural draft starts all the teams with zero players in their rosters. Well that should give me a fighting chance and lead to a sufficiently alternate play on history

Last edited by Anthropoid; 02-26-2015 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
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What I'd like to play: an early date (though not necessarily as early as 1902, if some other date would better suffice), in which all the leagues and teams are populated with real players (as much as possible), in which incoming rookies each year are primarily derived from historical rookies, in which the rate of economic change and the growth of teams and leagues and the birth of new teams more or less follows an historical path, but in which pretty much everything else is not tied to history. So for example I could conceivably take a middling team like Cincinatti Reds, and through lots of recruiting and trading, build it into a strong team, win a pennant and over decades build the strongest team in history . . . or something along those lines.

I suggest starting in 1920. Everything (stats, teams, league structure) in the real environment is pretty stable for 20 years, giving you a good environment to learn the game.
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:59 AM   #7
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George Davis SS
Patsy Donovan RF
Nap Lajoie 2B
Dummy Hoy CF
John J. Anderson 1B
Kip Selbach LF
John J. McGraw 3B
Cy Young SP
Lou Criger C

! Ah you gotta love Fantasy Inaugural Draft!

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I suggest starting in 1920. Everything (stats, teams, league structure) in the real environment is pretty stable for 20 years, giving you a good environment to learn the game.
Thanks Orcin, if I lose interest in my new 1902 Campaign or it turns out to be glitched somehow, I'll definitely consider a 1920 start date!\

ADDIT: so my team is the Cardinals with that fantasy lineup above. My best pitchers Cy Young, Frank Foreman, Jack W. Taylor, and then a couple not terrible relievers. I've got my pitching lineup set so Young is the only starter, Taylor is set to Emergency SP, and Foreman to Long relief. Fred Klodebanz as "setup" and Martin Glendon as closer.

I figure Young is just so good, and has that "Iron Man" endurance, so no point in diluting my defensive potency by having him rotate automatically. In general I'll startup all my games and see if he is exhausted, and if he is then just put Taylor in as starter and either play it manually or let the AI play it.

I believe I chose to play to auto-play to opening day but for some reason it stopped part way through the Spring training games. Young was exhausted so I put Taylor in as starter. He pitched a reasonably good game only gave up about 3 or 4 walks. Is there an easy way to see a players stats specific to a given game?

Anyway, with me calling all the shots, and that sweet lineup, Cardinals absolutely crushed the Boston Beaneaters 15 - 1 !

Don't know if this is a spurious observation or not, but it seems like you can harry the AI pitcher if you manage to get one or two fast base stealers on base, by alternating your offensive play calls. Also it seems like that "hit the batter" works pretty well to nullify the value of a slow power hitter in the opponent's lineup!

Last edited by Anthropoid; 02-26-2015 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:40 PM   #8
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Pinch Runners and Pinch Hitters: I do not understand what the computer is going to do with these if I insert players and then do auto plays. I'm playing 1902, prior to the creation of the designated hitter concept (that was in 1970s eh?).

So, I've got my lineup and depth chart put together (well re-put together for the 10th time!). I decided to go by the traditional sorts of batting statistics instead of just the player ratings (#1 high OBP with good plate discipline and bat control; #2 good contact hitter with a low number of "Ground into Double Plays; #3 high SLG; etc.). And I've got my left over active roster players. Some of whom have pretty good batting averages, low rates of strikeout%, and good speed, base running and stealing ratings.

For example, George Merritt (RF but not set as a Utility because his fielding is pretty poor), Jack Doyle (1B and utility to my main 1B John J. Anderson), and Jim Jackson (utility LF) all have pretty good career batting averages and slugging scores.

When and how would the computer decide to insert one of these guys (or a 4th if I listed such) as a pinch hitter? I'm assuming that, a pinch hitter is a substitute for the guy at bat, so from that point on in the game, the pinch hitter must play in the position of the replaced batter, right? So if a catcher is hurt, or is otherwise not good for batting for some reason (??) what use is a pinch hitter who has no experience playing as catcher?

Same thing really for the pinch runner. How does the computer decide to use these guys?

ADDIT: Question about Lineups -> seems like if you change a lineup immediately after a game, but while you are scheduled for a game the next day, it will still use the older lineup for the next game?

Last edited by Anthropoid; 02-27-2015 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:41 PM   #9
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When and how would the computer decide to insert one of these guys (or a 4th if I listed such) as a pinch hitter? I'm assuming that, a pinch hitter is a substitute for the guy at bat, so from that point on in the game, the pinch hitter must play in the position of the replaced batter, right? So if a catcher is hurt, or is otherwise not good for batting for some reason (??) what use is a pinch hitter who has no experience playing as catcher?

Same thing really for the pinch runner. How does the computer decide to use these guys?
From my experience (not a lot of 'real' baseball, but a fair amount with the game now...):

Pinch hitters are usually used to replace pitchers who are due to be replaced at the start of the next inning but will have to bat first. For instance, let's say your SP is due to be replaced after the top of the fifth inning because he's tired, but he's due to bat in the bottom of the fifth. The game would replace him with a PH for the half-inning, and then replace the PH with the new pitcher at the top of the 6th.

With positional players, it tends to only replace them with a PH if they were doing really poorly, and if you had a replacement who could play his position. It wouldn't normally put a PH in for a catcher, and if you did it did it'd probably replace him with a replacement catcher in the same manner as above before they take to the field again.

This is usually the case in my experience. For instance the AI will take a shortstop off for a pinch hitter, then substitute the PH with a guy who can play shortstop if the PH couldn't himself (and to be fair, if you've got a PH who can play SS, why is he not playing SS? ).

In the case of pinch runners, I've very rarely seen them used in the game (as in real life). The parameters seem to be the same: Either the runner was injured at some point during a play and got to a base but can't run very well, or you've got an excellent base stealer who's weak offensively and want to use him late on in games to try and steal some runs.

Last edited by monkeystyxx; 02-27-2015 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 02-27-2015, 07:09 PM   #10
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So I finished the 1902 season and won the championship. Yaahh!

I'm finding the way that hiring and firing and recruiting and drafting, etc. are handled to be very opaque. I have this feeling that I'm missing opportunities to bring good talent into the club.

How the hell do I manage to get one of these awesome coaches, given they always seem to have a two year contract and when I click on "Available Actions" . . . nothing about "Make offer he cannot refuse . . ." or something along those lines.

I just fired my whole staff . . . well two of them had contracts expire, and I fired the rest. They were all mediocre. But now looking at the pool of availables: same thing, nothing but mediocres.

Also, at some point after winning the pennant (yesterday or the day before) somehow all my top players got new contracts through the end of 1903 for about a 2.5 to 3x pay raise! I mean I can appreciate that winning the pennant is worth a raise but Holy Crap!

Moreover, when I click on the League Transactions page: Show All Players, some of my players are listed there!? WHAT!? For example, John J. Anderson, he was getting paid about $900 and now his salary is $1,500, just POOF! automatically. When I click on his Contracts and Status page, under "Additional Clauses and Incentives" it says: Contract is not guaranteed.

What the heck is this all about?
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Old 02-28-2015, 12:21 AM   #11
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As far as the players automatically getting new contracts - this is because in early baseball (actually in most of baseball history until the late 1970s) players weren't free agents - so the team just basically decided on what they would pay them. In game this means (if you don't take manual action) that the ownership will simply give all the players new contracts, higher pay if they did well and pay cuts if they didn't perform.

Honestly I'm not sure how to manually intervene in this or whether it is possible. I'm sure someone here does.

Once you reach the free agent era you have a lot more control over player salaries, can choose what to offer them, but the downside is they can freely go to other teams once their contract ends if they don't like your offer.
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Old 02-28-2015, 12:48 AM   #12
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Ah thanks Peregrine.

Strange thing is that, in this 1902 era sim, all my players have (free agent) listed.

Anyway, it seems that players who are on your roster have their contract renewed the day after the end of the playoffs (immediately before the championship I guess). So if one really wanted to intervene, I suppose you could be certain to stop the game on the day before, fire them and then try to rehire them. Using Commissioner mode it might even work out okay.

A related aspect of the game that I find slightly limiting: I cannot poach other GM's much better coaching staff.

Seems to me that money talks, and if I were to offer to buy out your existing contract, and up your pay by 50% _and_ I am GM of the team that just won the pennant . . . I think most coaches would move in the direction of the dollars when they heard that tune!

So it would be neat if there were an option or two in the interface, which would exist across all times at which it legitimately did or could have existed, which allows a GM to buy out, i.e., poach, other coaches, or at least to say "I want you when your contract expires . . ." With players I can see it being a different story, and a player sticking to his/her contract might be more of an honor-bound thing.

With this in mind, I have just made some strategic use of the Commissioner mode. I played as the coach of five teams with the coaches I wanted, fired them, logged in as myself, offered them a five year contract making 150% what they were making before, and then after they all agreed, I deducted $8,000 from my annual budget (about what it would've cost to buy out all of their contracts with about two years remaining). I feel like my team is pretty bad ass now. Best coaches in the league, the two best pitchers (Cy Young and Addie Joss, who also won rookie of the year, and whom I traded from Philly!), the hitter of the year (Nap Lajoie) and several other star players (Jimmy Barnett, Honus Wagner, John J. Andersen, etc.). With the first year drafts done, I have a nice crop of promising rookies, all of my positions have at least one utility (and I actually have two or three multi-role players) and I have 5 pitchers with 100 stamina plus another 3 who are half-decent relievers.

I decided to give my rookies a chance to get experience so I logged into commissioner mode again and setup a grueling 4-game away series with every other team in the Major Leages (about 15 of them I think). That will take them from early November to about late February, when they can get some rest before spring training. I've got so many relievers and utilities I cannot imagine anyone will get too exhausted.

Not sure how the development algorithms work, but I'm hoping that playing keeps their skills fresh and growing.

Last edited by Anthropoid; 02-28-2015 at 12:49 AM.
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Old 02-28-2015, 07:47 PM   #13
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I've been looking and looking and cannot figure out what the "Tag Controls" item in the views does.

If it is active, then you get a little tick box to the far left of your list, but I cannot figure out if ticking does anything or how to take the next step with it, for example telling it to only display ticked rows or something like that.
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Old 02-28-2015, 08:20 PM   #14
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I've been looking and looking and cannot figure out what the "Tag Controls" item in the views does.

If it is active, then you get a little tick box to the far left of your list, but I cannot figure out if ticking does anything or how to take the next step with it, for example telling it to only display ticked rows or something like that.

Mostly used for "mass delete" actions.
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Old 03-01-2015, 10:20 AM   #15
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Strategy: Is my Manager Brilliant or Idiotic?

I've been perusing Wikis page on batting order and developed my own little 'system' to decide who to put in the #1, #2, #3 and #4+ slots.

The thing I'm puzzled by is, when I ask my manager (who is one of the highest rated in the game, with Outstanding ratings on all indices) he gives me a lineup that is almost exactly the opposite of what I'd think (based on my read of the logic in the wiki page, which seems quite logical to me) would be the best lineup.

ADDIT:

Okay, so my understanding of the 'standard' strategy for lineups:

#1 "Leadoff" Batter: most important thing for this guy is to get on base. As such, weighted On-base percentage is probably his most important stat. Related to that, a low Strike Out %, and a high percentage of Base on Balls and not a bad percentage of Strike outs. Based on this, the formula I've been using to rate my batters in terms of a "Leadoff Index"

(BB% - SO%) * wOBA (expressed as a decimal)

So for example, my estimation of my best player for #1 is John J. McGraw: BB% = 16.7%; SO% = 5.5%; wOBA = 0.398 Leadoff Index (LI) = 4.46.

The next best in my roster is Jimmy Barret with LI = 1.63, followed by Frank Chance with LI = 0.75

The absolute worst is Nap Lajoie with LI = -1.9 and who does my manager want in leadoff?

Charlie Dexter, with LI = -1.03 !?!

As you can see from this page copying my "Lineup Stats" window, Dexter has mediocre plate discipline (BB% and secondarily wOBA being the main indicators of that as far as I can tell), mediocre bat control (SO%), and isn't even a very good hitter (BA = 0.265).

Not only that but right at the moment Dexter has a Day-to-day injury!

What is my manager "thinking"!?

For #2 slot, my sense is that you want someone who is as much like the #1 guy as possible, except also with a low frequency of Ground into Double Plays, and not necessarily as much speed. Most importantly, this guy should be unlikely to strikeout. The formula I've been using to calculate a #2 "Contact Hitter Index" (CHI) is:

(1 / GDP) / SO%
one divided by ground into double plays count, the quantity divided by strikeout %.

In terms of this formula, I calculate the following ratings for my top few players for #2 slot:

(John J. McGraw CHI = 9.1, but he can't exactly bat in the #1 _and_ #2 slot can he)
Bill Hallman CHI = 6.85
Patsy Donovan CHI = 5.3
Jimmy Barret CHI = 4.3

Here there is not as much disagreement b/w me and the manager, he wants to put Jimmy Barret in #2, but relegates Bill Hallman to #8.

For number 3 slot, my understanding is you want "best all-around hitter on the team" (based on the wiki page). What exactly that means I'm not sure, but the formula I came up with was:

OPS (on-base average + slugging index) / SO%

Based on that, I came up with the following estimates for a #3 Index (3I):

(again John J. McGraw is the best with 3I = 13.4, but given he is my best #1, he is excluded from consideration for #3)
Patsy Donovan 3I = 16.4
George Davis 3I = 11.47

The lowest 3I score I come up with is Charlie Dexter 3I = 6.8

The computer wants to put Frank Chance who has a 3I = 8.72, nearly half as good as Patsy Donovan (whom the manager is sticking in the #7 slot).

For #4, my understanding is, it should be a slugger, so I've just put whoever is left in the lineup who has a high SLG.

. . . so that is a lot of detail, but perhaps someone will be an equal or greater statistic geek than me and take an interest in offering any feedback or advice.

Last edited by Anthropoid; 03-01-2015 at 11:01 AM. Reason: Additional Detail
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:21 PM   #16
monkeystyxx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthropoid View Post
I've been looking and looking and cannot figure out what the "Tag Controls" item in the views does.

If it is active, then you get a little tick box to the far left of your list, but I cannot figure out if ticking does anything or how to take the next step with it, for example telling it to only display ticked rows or something like that.
It's mostly used to perform actions on multiple players at once. For instance, to release a bunch of guys, shortlist them all, or demote a bunch of guys to the same lower tier. Tick all the players you want to be affected, and then perform the action (via right-clicking one of the selected rows).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthropoid View Post
I've been perusing Wikis page on batting order and developed my own little 'system' to decide who to put in the #1, #2, #3 and #4+ slots.

The thing I'm puzzled by is, when I ask my manager (who is one of the highest rated in the game, with Outstanding ratings on all indices) he gives me a lineup that is almost exactly the opposite of what I'd think (based on my read of the logic in the wiki page, which seems quite logical to me) would be the best lineup.
Yeaaah, the AI is notoriously bad at that no matter the manager's skill, I find. My manager put a shortstop with 2 speed as my lead-off hitter once. Never used the AI lineups again after that.

I don't really "do" stats to the level you go on to describe in your post, so I can't really comment on that, but from your descriptions you seem to have the right idea. Or rather I should say, you seem to have a similar idea to me.


I'm not really sure if matters too much though. I mean, the only guarantee after all of the umming and aahing is that your lead-off guy is going to lead-off. Once. After that anything can happen and all your planning will go out of the window pretty quickly.

The absolute best you can guarantee from tinkering with the batting order is 4 runs (grand slam homer by the cleanup guy). And if that does happen then your #5 guy is a lead-off hitter next inning. Or all three could strike out and your #4 guy becomes your lead-off, which is usually a terrible thing, as all the attributes that make him a great #4 (size, strength) usually make for a terrible #1 (speed, agility).

I've often wondered if it's not better to stagger speed and power through the lineup. Have the lead-off followed by the traditional #3. Then the second speediest guy followed by the traditional #4, etc. That way, you're guaranteeing at least once per inning (rather than once per game) that a guy capable of stealing bases will be followed by a guy capable of advancing him. This is based on the theory that even if the first batter of the inning ends up being a power guy, he'll be followed by a speed/power combo. But even that only works until you run out of speed and power (quickly, usually).

Last edited by monkeystyxx; 03-01-2015 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 03-01-2015, 10:03 PM   #17
Anthropoid
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I think I've figured out an easier system than what I described above. Well, at least it seems to have served me well on auto-play (with strategy set up for both the team and the players, and player set to adjust to team strategy).

Once you have a screen with your prospective batters open a window with the Batting Stats (I have a template called "Lineup Stats" that has most of the batting ratings, and speed, plus Defensive value at position, and then the Batting stats that I think are most useful). I've come to realize that, the splitting function is actually quite useful.

Say you select Major Leagues for the top level, then "Overall" or "Career" for the split or double-split, you will of course get numbers that are reflective of each players entire major league career.

If you select anything else at the lowest level, it seems to simply make use of the most recent season's stats; actually, I'm not entirely sure of that but I think so. So for example if you select "Bases empty" you'll get all the stats recalculcted for all the plate appearances where the player faced a field without any teammates on base. Likewise, you can do the same with all the other combinations (player on 1st, player on 2nd, or on third, on 1st and 3rd, 2nd and 3rd, bases loaded).

Some of these other stats I was using before (SO%, GDP, wOBA) are to some extent derived from or related to batting average. If you got a hit, then you obviously got on base and didn't strikeout, though it is possible you grounded into a double play but still managed to get onto base, even while two of your teammates (who were on the field when you came to the plate) were retired. This of course could only happen in a situation with two players already on bases, and no outs. Probably would be unlikely to happen in any situation except player on 2nd and 1st, possible 3rd and 1st. with 2nd and 3rd, it seems quite likely that it would never be a double play, though I suppose anything is possible. Anyway, just an aside to say: special stats are neat, but when you can use the aggregate least divisible variable instead, that is generally preferable.

Long story, short, I think that by looking at batting average in different "splits" you can effectively come up with an even better estimate of a players proficiency at any given order in the lineup.

#1 needs a high batting average when bases are empty (if the lineup has gone all the way round, it could of course be any other permutation too, but that is a low occurrence event compared to tthe leadoff man facing all bases empty). Basically, the guy with the best BA with bases empty, as long as he has good speed, and nothing else that looks deficient (SO% and BB% in particular) = best leadoff man.

Using this method I actually determined that Honus Wagner was my best leadoff man, and so far it seems to have proven true.

Number two guy can also face bases empty, or (and restricting it to the most common permutations): runner on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. Add those four batting averages together, and divide by four and you've got his "#2 batter" score. Usually you can figure out the two players who you need to do this with pretty easily: the ones with the 2nd and third best BA against empty bases. A bit tedious but only takes a couple minutes.

#3 faces a larger set of (typical) permutations: bases empty, or runner on 1st, or 2nd, or 3rd, or runners on 1st and 2nd, or 1st and 3rd, or 2nd and 3rd. So that is seven different batting averages to add up and calculate a mean value for. It sounds laborious but it does actually seem to confirm one's gut intuition for who should be in what slot.

#4 through 8 it is virtually impossible to predict with any certainty what they will face, but #4 in particular faces the highest inherent probability of "all possible" permutations of offensive distributions. So plain old Batting Average is bound to be the best indicator for #4! (whether overall career or overall this season might be a matter of context).

#'s 5 through 8 slots are similar to #4 in that it is virtually impossible to predict with much certainty what offensive permutation will be faced, so again the best predictor for best batter at each of these slots is again aggregate batting average. Out of the remaining players, the guy with the next highest BA (next below the guy who is in slot 4) goes in 5, next highest in 6, next highest in 7 and lowest of the fielders gets 8. Pitcher or DH go in 9!

Last edited by Anthropoid; 03-01-2015 at 10:10 PM.
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