Stopper/closer

[Danius]

Originally Posted by Lordofbrewtown

Good article. Kind of similarly, I've always argued that part of the problem with judging relief pitchers is not just saves; but, the way E.R.A. is calculated.

I think it would reflect performance much more if inherited runners who score were "fractioned" off/assigned partly to the pitcher who put them on base and the pitcher who "allowed" them to score. So, if a pitcher comes in with a runner on 3rd, and he scores, the reliever should be charged with 0.25 runs, and the starter with 0.75 runs. If the runner was on 2nd when he entered, 0.5 runs to both, etc.

While this makes some sense, you'd have to use the number of outs in the inning in the equation as well. In your scenario, the pitcher coming into the game would get charged 0.25 runs if a runner scored from third, regardless of whether there were 0 outs or 2 outs. In reality, with 2 outs, the runner can't score on anything but a base hit, wild pitch, or two things that would cause it to be an unearned run, a passed ball or an error. It's probably just as likely that a runner on third will score on a double play with 0 outs than it is that he will score at all with 2 outs. Therefore in this scenario, you are punishing the pitcher in the same way for allowing a hit with 2 outs, or inducing a double play with 0 outs.

[Leo_The_Lip]

A few thoughts I will expand on tomorrow when I have more time:

1) The Starter settings are equally important to getting the Stopper role properly implemented. By that I mean the team needs around 50-60 complete games by the staff to give the Stopper enough rest to bounce back and make the longer relief appearances. Modern Starter settings do not provide enough CGs so the Stopper role is not used properly.

2) I'll post screen shots later, but the best Stopper in my fictional league that started in 1946 and is now in 1971 pitches in 70-80 games per season. Saying this is appearing in one-half the 154 game schedule is misleading because he is appearing in 90+ percent of all non-complete game start opportunities.

3) The stamina of the Stopper is important. The Closer stamina of 1 or 2 that typically appears in OOTP is too low for an effective Stopper.

4) I think of a Stopper as Dick Radatz with a 15-5 record, 140 or so innings pitched and 150 or more strikeouts. Perhaps 20 saves. Other true Stoppers were Elroy Face (he of the 19-1 season), Ted Abernathy, Ron Peranowski, or Luis Arroyo in 1961.

5) Calling a Starter a Stopper refers to someone like Whitey Ford who could be counted on to Stop a losing streak when he pitched.

[Painmantle]

Originally Posted by byzeil

The availability of the stopper role is controlled by the 'Use of Closers' setting. If it is set to 'Normal', ' Rarely' or 'Very Rarely' the stopper role will be available along with the closer role.

Originally Posted by bwburke94

It might be worth noting that OOTP allows the stopper role only with "Normal" (or less) closer usage.

Given the modern Andrew Miller role is mostly equivalent to the stopper, I've long advocated for this to change.

Just a news flash for everyone, My Historical online league (Currently in 2001) now see's both the stopper and closer roles available and the use of closers is set to "Often"

[Leo_The_Lip]

A decent to not so good starter with Detroit, he got traded to the Dodgers where he paired with Ron Perranoski to form the lefty/righty combination then considered necessary.

He was called "The Vulture" due to his habit of coming in, allowing the man on base to score and tie the game, then watching as the Dodgers rallied to win, thus 'vulturing' the win. His 14-1 record in 1966 is when this occurred. He also led the league with 21 Saves, although I could not find any 'blown save' stats for back then.

[Leo_The_Lip]

Here is the best Stopper in my fictional league:

[Leo_The_Lip]

Mike Schaefer's career marks show he leads the league in games, saves, wins, strikeouts and holds:

[Leo_The_Lip]

Here are his HOLD totals:

[Leo_The_Lip]

As you can see, he will be in the top five of reliever wins, saves and holds every year. At the point I took these screen captures, he had appeared in 699 games, had 91 Wins, 241 saves and 71 Holds.

The game AI uses him as the best available option, only going to the Setup Man when Schaefer is tired. Since he records a positive result in (91+241+71) 403 of his 699 appearances, with only 58 losses and 72 blown saves, he is involved in the game about 2/3 of the time; with 1/3 of his appearances not impacting the result.

His 20 Stamina is key to his effective use when combined with about 1/3 of his starts being complete games. Basically the game leaves him in to conclusion unless he falters or is pinch-hit for with an inning to go and a chance to add to the lead.