Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Developments > Talk Sports

Talk Sports Discuss everything that is sports-related, like MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, MLS, NASCAR, NCAA sports and teams, trades, coaches, bad calls etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-22-2019, 05:30 PM   #1
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 6,268
Can someone explain to me.....

.....why this isn't screwed up?
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 05:49 PM   #2
Rain King
Hall Of Famer
 
Rain King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,077
There isn't much in the way of details in the article.

It's a business. If Ellsbury got treatment that is outside of what he was allowed to do based on the CBA then the Yankees would be dumb not to make this move. We don't know how legitimate their claim is though.
Rain King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 06:09 PM   #3
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10,436
Wow, that's a court case if ever I saw one. I agree with Rain King that the Yankees should do what they can to get out from under this albatross. What a waste of millions upon millions of dollars on a malingerer.

At least this should seal the deal on whether he ever would play for the Yankees if he were to miraculously recover and maintain his health. Not now, I'd say.

Look for a settlement in the form of some sort of contract buyout and release. Then Ellsbury will be free to bring his act to another MLB team. Beware!

EDIT: Actually, it wasn't clear in that article but it is in this one: Ellsbury has been cut so he will not be back, period. So long, pal. Thank for next to nothing, given your huge salary. (Greg Bird, whom I have less harsh feelings for, is also gone. Another guy who kept tripping over his own feet, somewhat literally, but at least he didn't cost $153 million.)

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...-dfa-greg-bird
__________________

- Bru



Last edited by Déjà Bru; 11-22-2019 at 06:17 PM.
Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 06:10 PM   #4
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 6,268
For the Yanks actions to hold merit, in my book, Ellsbury would have had to get treatment that would deliberately keep him from playing. Otherwise, they are a bunch of equine glutes.
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 06:24 PM   #5
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
For the Yanks actions to hold merit, in my book, Ellsbury would have had to get treatment that would deliberately keep him from playing. Otherwise, they are a bunch of equine glutes.
I hear you, putting aside my Yankee fanhood. Look at it this way, as I do: That's not all Yankees money that they are trying to save. Some of it is profits, yes, but some of it is pass-through money from fans like you and I paying higher prices to see their teams because of greed. Players' greed as well as owners' greed. Ellsbury has been sitting on his can for two years while taking down $50-$60 million. Not so much for the Yankees, but for myself, I'd like the team to get around paying him anymore if, if, he violated the terms of his contract. Obviously there is a chance of this or else the Yankees would not be using this gambit.
__________________

- Bru


Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 06:30 PM   #6
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 6,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
I hear you, putting aside my Yankee fanhood. Look at it this way, as I do: That's not all Yankees money that they are trying to save. Some of it is profits, yes, but some of it is pass-through money from fans like you and I paying higher prices to see their teams because of greed. Players' greed as well as owners' greed. Ellsbury has been sitting on his can for two years while taking down $50-$60 million. Not so much for the Yankees, but for myself, I'd like the team to get around paying him anymore if, if, he violated the terms of his contract. Obviously there is a chance of this or else the Yankees would not be using this gambit.
It's called risk. No one forced anybody to sign or offer anything. Everybody is a big boy and knows something like this could happen. Yeah, it sucks. Especially since no one is at fault for Ellsbury becoming glass. But that is the chance you take. Not knowing Ellsbury, but he probably was desperate to get on the field so that he could earn his salary. And the Yanks are going to use some kind of technicality to punish him for that? Equine glutes.
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 06:44 PM   #7
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10,436
Well, as RK said, it's a business. The law will decide whether the contract has been violated or not - the Yankees may be equine glutes but they're not stupid - and it basically comes down to that: the law.

Funny how you and I see this situation differently. I think you are feeling that Ellsbury is being treated unfairly. I, on the other hand, feel that he has been treating the ballclub and its fans unfairly - his injuries and his rehabilitations have been vaguely documented as far as I can tell.

If a guy got clonked on the head and was ruled ineligible to ever play again from that day forward, then yes, the rules of the game are to pay him the rest of his contract. In Ellsbury's case, however - and I am willing to listen to arguments to the contrary - he seems like he wasn't eager to get back on the field.

Here is the summary from your article:

Ellsbury injured an oblique muscle on his right side early during spring training in 2018, developed a bad back and had hip surgery on Aug. 6 last year to repair a torn labrum in his left hip. He experienced plantar fasciitis in his right foot during his rehab program before spring training this year.

He never recovered from any of this? He was out for all of 2019 with plantar fasciitis? That doesn't seem right but like I said, I'm willing to listen to his defense.

My feeling, though, is that it would be fair not to pay Ellsbury any more money. Not legally speaking, mind you; just what seems fair to me. That's why I don't blame the Yankees for trying to do something about it, not because I am a Yankees fan. And it is a business.
__________________

- Bru



Last edited by Déjà Bru; 11-22-2019 at 06:47 PM.
Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 07:02 PM   #8
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 6,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
Well, as RK said, it's a business. The law will decide whether the contract has been violated or not - the Yankees may be equine glutes but they're not stupid - and it basically comes down to that: the law......
I don't deny the Yanks have the right to do it. I don't confirm or deny what Ellsbury has done to get on the field. But just because someone has the right to do something, doesn't mean they are right to do something. The luxury tax is there to prevent teams from overpaying players. The Yanks thumbed their noses at it and paid for it. That is the risk they willingly took. And lost. You can't bet all your chips on red & then take them back when it lands black.
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 07:04 PM   #9
Reed
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,920
Let me know if this is correct. Ellsbury has missed the passed 2 seasons due to injury and he has been using Yankee approved medical staff/procedures but is still injured. So he decides to use a different medical expert without Yankee approval.

If this is correct, I hope Ellsbury gets every cent, and I do not even care about Ellsbury.
The Yankees were really dumb to agree to that contract but apparently they have plenty of money to take these risks so let them pay, assuming the above is correct.

Last edited by Reed; 11-22-2019 at 07:15 PM.
Reed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2019, 08:57 PM   #10
thehef
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,750
Compare these two generic scenarios:

1) Player/team sign a contract. Player's subsequent performance exceeds expectations and as such, he is underpaid. He then refuses to honor the terms of his contract and holds out.
2) Player/team sign a contract. Player's subsequent performance fails to meet expectations and therefore, he is overpaid. The team has no recourse and is stuck paying him.

In the case of #1, opinion is usually split among those who support the player (usually most of those in the media, including all ex-players, and a not-insigificant minority of fans in general), and those who support the team (a minority of the media and typically a majority of the fans). However, in scenario #2 there is no such split opinion because - as noted - there is nothing to be split about - the team is simply stuck with honoring the contract.

So while the details in the Ellsbury matter are more-specific than the generic examples above and may not make the issue cut and dry, I for one like the fact that a team is attempting to use the actual terms of the contract to get out of it, which IMO is in stark contrast to the all-too-often-seen player-reneging scenario.

And if the Yankees' actions make high-priced free agents less-likely to accept the Yankees' money, that's fine with me

Anyways, I'm guessing we can agree that this is headed to court or settlement, and that they Yankees likely will be paying something.
thehef is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 07:39 AM   #11
Reed
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,920
I agree that players need to play out their contracts instead of holding out for more money. It will be an interesting case but will probably be settled out of court.

Last edited by Reed; 11-23-2019 at 07:40 AM.
Reed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 08:26 AM   #12
Matt Arnold
OOTP Developer
 
Matt Arnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Here and there
Posts: 14,089
They run a business, so if they think they have a legal case to not pay him, it makes sense from their end to try.

I mean, I don't know the whole story, but I seriously doubt they'll win. Unless if whatever "alternate" therapy he tried actually prevented him from playing, they won't have a case. And even if it did lead to one of the things that made him not play, my not-a-lawyer take is that as long as whatever he did was "reasonable" to try to get back to playing, I would imagine there's some sort of provision to prevent that from invalidating the contract.

Like, if Correa was being massively overpaid and hadn't explicitly gotten permission to go to his massage therapist where he got hurt worse, technically speaking that might be a violation of his contract seeking "unauthorized treatment". But you have to assume that no judge would let the team off the hook for something like that.

Now, not sure if that's anywhere close to what happened here. But I don't fault either side for trying to fight this.
Matt Arnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 10:59 AM   #13
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10,436
That's a reasonable assessment. Unless it says "This contract will be rendered null and void, including any and all future remuneration, should the player so much as set foot in a doctor's office without management's permission," I doubt a judge is going to merely set it aside. Not unless it is proven that such treatment damaged the goods to the tune of $26MM.

So, come to think of it that way, leaving fairness to either side out of consideration, why would the Yankees try this maneuver?
__________________

- Bru


Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 11:37 AM   #14
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Some more detail via MLBTR

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/...as-rumors.html

If this gets into a pissing match Ellsbury's camp could scrutinize any and all treatment authorized by the Yankees for even the tiniest error and use that to say they ruined his career. Dangerous ground to tread on. Guaranteed contracts are a strikeable issue.
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

Last edited by RchW; 11-23-2019 at 11:41 AM.
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 11:39 AM   #15
Matt Arnold
OOTP Developer
 
Matt Arnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Here and there
Posts: 14,089
Obviously we don't know all the details. I'm assuming it was more than a random doctor's visit, and if they think they have an angle to clear 20+M off the cap, worth it for them to take it.
Matt Arnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 12:08 PM   #16
Reed
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,920
I imagine the Yankees have a few lawyers on staff and it probably costs them very little to try to void the contract since the lawyers are already getting paid. This is just a guess though.
Reed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 01:00 PM   #17
cephasjames
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,729
Blog Entries: 1
I feel like I've heard other stories before (one involving a Tiger, I think) about players being contracted to use team doctors or team approved doctors and going outside of those bounds becomes a breach of contract, or at least unapproved or something like that. Those stories dealt with much smaller cases. But if Ellsbury breached his contract than the Yankees have every right to do what they're doing.
__________________
5000+ Generic Logos Free for the Taking
FREE: Uniforms and logos for 500+ teams spanning 1871-present
Great Lakes League: 10 Conferences, 100 Teams
Pre-OOTP 23 Custom Cap & Jersey Template v3.0 by Deft and NoPepper (with layers from other various artists) that I use: Caps, Jerseys
cephasjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 05:21 PM   #18
GeoWar
All Star Reserve
 
GeoWar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
I hear you, putting aside my Yankee fanhood. Look at it this way, as I do: That's not all Yankees money that they are trying to save. Some of it is profits, yes, but some of it is pass-through money from fans like you and I paying higher prices to see their teams because of greed. Players' greed as well as owners' greed. Ellsbury has been sitting on his can for two years while taking down $50-$60 million. Not so much for the Yankees, but for myself, I'd like the team to get around paying him anymore if, if, he violated the terms of his contract. Obviously there is a chance of this or else the Yankees would not be using this gambit.
** If I understand correctly the previous years of his contract were covered by insurance (or partly ) . This year was not . And Ellsbury looked for outside advise and treatment without consent of the Yankees which was part of Collective agreement. Still not as bad as Mets and Bobby Bonilla (they are still paying him)
__________________
Cal. State Fullerton -- NCAA Champion - Baseball 2004

Texas Longhorns -- NCAA Champion - Baseball 2005

Oregon State Beavers -- NCAA Champion - Baseball 2006 and 2007


With unity comes VICTORY !
GeoWar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 10:47 PM   #19
CBeisbol
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ban land in 3...2...
Posts: 2,943
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoWar View Post
Still not as bad as Mets and Bobby Bonilla (they are still paying him)
People like to make fun of this deal, but it was a good deal for both Bonilla and the Mets.
CBeisbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:51 AM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments