Steam

[The Wolf]

Jonathan "The Bronx Is Burning" Mahler, September 2013:

"Major league baseball is doing just fine. Unlike the N.F.L. and the N.B.A., it has been free of labor strife for nearly 20 years. It has more exciting young stars than I can ever remember. It has even achieved that elusive 'competitive balance,' with seven different champions over the last decade. Teams across the country are playing in brand-new ballparks that they somehow persuaded local governments to help pay for. Over the last 20 years, baseball revenues have grown from roughly $1 billion to nearly $8 billion.

The game, in other words, has never been healthier."

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

No, you're not understanding. You will need to carry your saved game files with you wherever you go, whether it's on your own computer, an external hard drive or a flash drive. Steam DOES NOT save your game files in a cloud.

I've never used Steam and I'm only learning about it through what's being said here, but it seems pretty obvious to me that Steam's draw isn't that you can play your games anywhere you can find any computer with internet. That may be possible with some games, but certainly not with OOTP for numerous reasons that have been hashed out in this thread.

OK thanks. I thought this was Wolf's argument for Steam... then I don't see any need, since I am not adding 1.3kg to my pack...

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Yes, but the game does have to be configured to allow it.

So in OOTP's case, Markus has to give us that ability? This would be reason enough for me to use Steam if I had two computers.

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

We might also get head to head play on Steam eventually.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

If Steam goes to cloud storage for OOTP saves then I can see more people suddenly finding a reason to use it.

Originally Posted by pjh5165

Steam going to cloud storage for OOTP saves would be just plain awesome. I would 100% use Steam if that ever happens.

Originally Posted by CatKnight

Steam's multiplayer servers have a solid reputation and are built to handle games much more intensive than OOTP.

The cloud save possibility would be particularly attractive from an OOTP point of view. Our league files can get pretty large: Having those on a cloud would make it truly possible to play our league anywhere. Also, I would think having the save on a cloud would make it faster to load while putting less potential strain on our hard drives over time.

I'm a not a huge gamer either and I only play two games (OOTP being one of them). I also play a similar baseball GM game but it is online and it isn't anywhere close to being as good as Out of the Park BUT it is online and I prefer to play in leagues with other people this way. I know that there are OOTP league commisioners that put a lot of love and care into their leagues but, that aside, I can't believe that a game of this stature doesn't have a fully automated online option. If getting onto Steam allows for this option, eventually, then I am all for it. I am not crazy about being part of a league where a guy that I have never met before that lives halfway across the country, and two of his league 'officials', run the sims.

I'm sure that most leagues are run honestly but the system in place for online play seems like an archaic model to me.

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Jonathan "The Bronx Is Burning" Mahler, September 2013:

"Major league baseball is doing just fine. Unlike the N.F.L. and the N.B.A., it has been free of labor strife for nearly 20 years. It has more exciting young stars than I can ever remember. It has even achieved that elusive 'competitive balance,' with seven different champions over the last decade. Teams across the country are playing in brand-new ballparks that they somehow persuaded local governments to help pay for. Over the last 20 years, baseball revenues have grown from roughly $1 billion to nearly $8 billion.

The game, in other words, has never been healthier."

Yes, it is 'your' poll if you use it as your lamp post to support an inebriated argument.

I proved that poll, thus you, wrong. Move on...you are looking desperate...

[bazeall]

I do not want to purchase or play games through a middle man service like Steam.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by bazeall

I do not want to purchase or play games through a middle man service like Steam.

Then don't. No one's saying you have to.

[Ktulu]

Actually you do since esellerate would also be a middle man

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by dave1927p

if someone gets wronged by a service or don't like what it stands for (purchasing a game that you actually don't own), I'm sorry but who are you to say their viewpoint doesn't make sense or is illogical?

I had bought a brand new game from steam years back (Empire total war) and it auto-installed to my brothers account. I called steam and told them what had happened and how I would like to switch it to my account. They told me that it's against their policy. I asked why i cannot, and they said that the game could be used. 1. it was never installed to a previous account. 2. it was brand new, I had the receipt to prove it...but did any of that matter? No. That is an unreasoning viewpoint to me and I want no part in it ever again. I never did get to play it. I have only purchased one game on steam ever since (as I didn't know it was a steam exclusive) and refuse to buy there again.

Sorry this happened but you have to look at from the viewpoint of why steam exist. The whole purpose is to prevent piracy. While your request sounds reasonable unfortunately it is against the license agreement you accept when you install. You never own software. You buy a license to use it. Those license agreements are for one user almost always on games. The software industry has had trillions of dollars stolen from them for illegal use. It may seem harsh and exterme but they have to have some way to make sure people are paying to use their product or games like OOTP would not exist.

The same could have happened with the old service. If you did not take off your linences and installed too many times you might have to buy the software again. Immediately after installing from a disk you have to sign in to your account. I realize if you share a computer that could be real easy to mess up if say your brother set steam to auto log in. You click on steam and suddenly his account is logged in. Still this is a user error. Steam's policy may be tough but it prevents piracy. If they allowed people to do what you asked steam would become a public library and not a place where developers get the service of protecting their intellectual property.

Steam does not exist solely for the gamers use. It is a digital rights management and marketing platform that I assume developers pay probably though a percentage of sales steam makes to use. Steam exists to protect the developer. Some of the more socialist types might read evil into that statement. I do not. For capitalism to thrive in software and people like Markus to continue to develop games we love they must be able to exclude people who have not paid for using their software. This used to be very hard when games were on disk and you just some activation code that could be cracked.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Then don't. No one's saying you have to.

I am not sure about that. I can no longer play OOTP 14 without steam. I assume OOTP 15 will be like the total war series or many paradox games. You can buy the game and DLC almost anywhere but you have to have steam to play it.

Note steam is only the activation service that ensures the software is not pirated. After activating, you do not have to have steam running to play but if steam tracks achievements like it does for other games you do have to have steam running for steam to recognize an achievement. That was a FM horror story of a guy who qualified for the English hero trophy which requires 5 league promotions. Supposedly the person was connected to steam so the achievement never showed up!

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

I am not sure about that. I can no longer play OOTP 14 without steam. I assume OOTP 15 will be like the total war series or many paradox games. You can buy the game and DLC almost anywhere but you have to have steam to play it.

Markus & Co. have repeatedly assured us that OOTP will always be available as a direct download through eSellerate, as it always has. No need to ever use Steam if you don't want to.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Markus & Co. have repeatedly assured us that OOTP will always be available as a direct download through eSellerate, as it always has. No need to ever use Steam if you don't want to.

Maybe it was completely unrelated then. For some reason my OOTP 14 stopped working and it would come up unactivated. When I tried to activate I was out of licenses despite only installing it once. Once I got my steam key it worked again. It could have been an eSellerate problem but I assumed that eSellerate was no longer being used. Perhaps wrongly.

[old timer]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

Maybe it was completely unrelated then. For some reason my OOTP 14 stopped working and it would come up unactivated. When I tried to activate I was out of licenses despite only installing it once. Once I got my steam key it worked again. It could have been an eSellerate problem but I assumed that eSellerate was no longer being used. Perhaps wrongly.

Yes, the problem was with your license. The Esellerate licenses are still being used and will be for OOTP 15 as well.

When someone can't activate, all that's needed is for someone to come to us in tech support and we'll reset their license. As to how it happened, it usually happens due to hardware changes or even a major update, like updating to Windows 8.1. This causes the game (using Esellerate, not Steam) to need to reactivate.

[Biggio509]

Originally Posted by old timer

Yes, the problem was with your license. The Esellerate licenses are still being used and will be for OOTP 15 as well.

When someone can't activate, all that's needed is for someone to come to us in tech support and we'll reset their license. As to how it happened, it usually happens due to hardware changes or even a major update, like updating to Windows 8.1. This causes the game (using Esellerate, not Steam) to need to reactivate.

Good to see it you. It has been a while. Thanks for the response. I had not linked the new video card to the problem but that was probably it. The old card fan went out and I was having problems with heat. I had to reactivate windows when I plugged the new in. The online steam key tool solved the problem for me.

[Honorable_Pawn]

To each his own. I am very happy with my experience with Steam. It has only been positive for me.

[StyxNCa]

I have 9 games on steam and never had any problem with them. I like the automatic updates to the games and the ease of installing or uninstalling mods.

I am totally happy with steam.

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

To each his own. I am very happy with my experience with Steam. It has only been positive for me.

Same here. I was initially reluctant to have anything to do with Steam. I kept coming across posts from disgruntled gamers stating how Steam software would hijack my system, that it was spyware, malware, intrusive etc, etc. I've been a member since 2010, and in my experiences with Steam I've found that none of those accusations are true. Like you, I've had nothing but a positive experience with them.

[turkeybird86]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Same here. I was initially reluctant to have anything to do with Steam. I kept coming across posts from disgruntled gamers stating how Steam software would hijack my system, that it was spyware, malware, intrusive etc, etc. I've been a member since 2010, and in my experiences with Steam I've found that none of those accusations are true. Like you, I've had nothing but a positive experience with them.

You always here bad stuff about Steam, but as a user for 5 years, who has 119 games on Steam, I don't see why people are so opposed to it. It's one of the best computer services/apps I've ever used. Maybe if you only play one game, but the automatic updates alone make it worth it for that not to mention easier online play and servers.

[knightdreamer2k]

I use to not like steam because it is DRM. For me it came down to I would buy/sell used games and once steam took off it killed it for the pc market.
What helped me get over this was that steam often had big sales with the games coming in cheap. Another worry of mine was if steam went out of business than there goes all my games. Which could still happen but is less likely given the popularity of it.
I have over 200 games now on steam. Most I payed less than 20.00 for. With Steam I like that all updates are there and I don't have to go to various different websites to locatge my games. Point being if I'm going digital I want it on steam.

[sandman2575]

Originally Posted by turkeybird86

You always here bad stuff about Steam, but as a user for 5 years, who has 119 games on Steam, I don't see why people are so opposed to it. It's one of the best computer services/apps I've ever used. Maybe if you only play one game, but the automatic updates alone make it worth it for that not to mention easier online play and servers.

Completely agree. I'm no cheerleader for DRM, but it's here to stay and, kept within reason, serves an important purpose in curtailing piracy. To be honest, I don't even think about Steam as 'enforcing' DRM but as an amazingly convenient and *really* well designed and implemented service. Given the choice between the 'good 'ol days' of running out to the brick & mortar software store to buy a game and Steam, well, I wouldn't go back to the old way of doing things for anything.

That said, I think it's very cool that OOTP is now being offered *optionally* on Steam, not a requirement. Everyone wins.