Toughest Rebuild?

[jdono927]

Which modern day team would be the most fun/challenging to rebuild. This is beginning of 2014, since those are the most recent rosters I have I believe.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by jdono927

Which modern day team would be the most fun/challenging to rebuild. This is beginning of 2014, since those are the most recent rosters I have I believe.

Cubs
They have very little quality pitching . 2 young players who are supposed to carry that team which are streaky players. Several good prospects which are unproven and could be busts. An owner who may not be willing to put enough $$ into the team to make them a champion. An overrated President who won with a team already in place and an overrated GM who made some bad trades, who didn't have the payroll to keep any stars. An aging ballpark, as beautiful as it is, which the owner is upsetting his most loyal fanbase with some absurd changes.

Astros will win a WS before the Cubs will. The kid who was born right now who will play MLB someday who doesn't play with the Cubs stands a better chance at winning a WS before the Cubs do in the next 30 years.

[tejdog1]

Whoa whoa whoa.

Theo is overrated? Not a chance that's true. Also they have a boatload of great young offensive talent.

I'd pick whoever has the combination of worst farm/lowest budget in game.

[baseballonly]

Phillies.

[dodger300]

phillies

[dodger300]

Originally Posted by baseballonly

Phillies.

Wow, you must have beat me by 2 seconds.

[jaa36]

Originally Posted by dodger300

phillies

Stop trolling me, man!

Howard. Rollins. Utley. Championship.

[Izz]

definitely phillies!

[The Game]

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Whoa whoa whoa.

Theo is overrated? Not a chance that's true. Also they have a boatload of great young offensive talent.

I'd pick whoever has the combination of worst farm/lowest budget in game.

A boatload of unproven talent. I remember when the Mets had the next Maddux, Glavine & Smnoltz. How did that work out? Some people have tried to tell me that Castro is better then Ernie Banks and Rizzo is the next Babe Ruth despite the fact that Wrigley is not kind to left handed power. Epstein can't pass around steroids this time around.

How are the Philles the better rebuild? Yes you have some overpaid aging stars but they are still stars and with Cole Hamels & even C. Lee you still have a decent staff. Pen had a really good ERA. Move a few people and they can contend before the Cubs will. Will get a lot back for Hamels.

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by The Game

A boatload of unproven talent. I remember when the Mets had the next Maddux, Glavine & Smnoltz. How did that work out? Some people have tried to tell me that Castro is better then Ernie Banks and Rizzo is the next Babe Ruth despite the fact that Wrigley is not kind to left handed power. Epstein can't pass around steroids this time around.

How are the Philles the better rebuild? Yes you have some overpaid aging stars but they are still stars and with Cole Hamels & even C. Lee you still have a decent staff. Pen had a really good ERA. Move a few people and they can contend before the Cubs will. Will get a lot back for Hamels.

The players on the Phillies are only "stars" in the sense that they have recognizable names. Check out their b-ref page from this year for a quick check on the actual production that they are good for these days. Ryan Howard might have the worst contract in baseball, Utley and Rollins are aging, league-average offensive players with declining defensive range (nothing to be ashamed of at age 35, but from a roster construction standpoint, it's ugly), and their pitching rotation consists of Cole Hamels, an injured Cliff Lee, and a rotating dumpster fire. A bullpen headed up by an aging, expensive closer is about as useful as mammary glands on a bull in that roster situation. The 3 positional mediocre stars benefit from outsized popularity and name recognition, so the fan interest will bomb if/when they get dumped.

To be fair, in OOTP, this is probably an easier rebuild than it will be IRL. OOTP seems more willing to give in to Amaro-style demands for players like Hamels, and Lee's injury concerns likely won't be reflected in OOTP's ratings. In OOTP, you can trade Lee for something useful on Day 1. IRL, he'll likely have to re-establish that he is healthy in order to create any kind of trade value.

To top it all off, once Hamels is traded, the Phillies will have "a boatload of unproven talent" in exchange, since it's unlikely that a contender that needs pitching is going to give back legitimate stars in return for a pitcher who is legitimately signed at or near market value already.

To me, the main difference between the Cubs and the Phillies is that the Cubs are clued in to the fact that they should be rebuilding, as opposed to pretending that they have been contenders for the last few seasons with an expensive, declining roster that has a bunch of stars with rapdily shrinking trade value. Maybe the turnaround can happen faster in OOTP if Howard/Utley/Rollins/Lee are rated generously on day 1, but that's a major rebuild that hasn't even started yet due to the combination of Amaro's delusional devotion to competing with an over-the-hill roster, and Amaro's associated high demands for what few valuable trade pieces he has.

[BIG17EASY]

Cubs and Phils were both 73-89 this year, and the Cubs have already started the rebuilding process, as evidenced by the much stronger farm system. The Phillies' system is largely a barren wasteland -- at least in terms of players that will help soon -- that will only get better if they can trade Hamels properly.

JMDurron is right that the Phillies are probably an easier rebuild in OOTP than in real life, but I'd still consider it more challenging than the Cubs if you have certain trade and AI evaluation settings that most people agree make trading difficult (and more realistic).

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

I'm in the process of doing a Houston rebuild and the reason I like that is because they have no real discernible talent on their roster aside from Altuve (and I guess Cosart) so it's a ton of work.

I dunno if I would consider it "fun' though unless you want to completely redo a team culturally and everything...

[Padreman]

Padres they are basically a AAA team. They have no one of any worth. Their biggest off-season move was signing Mark Kotsay as their new hitting coach

[The Wolf]

Cubs for the most fun. Phillies if you hate yourself or have serious masoschistic tendencies. Houston or San Diego otherwise.

[jdono927]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Cubs and Phils were both 73-89 this year, and the Cubs have already started the rebuilding process, as evidenced by the much stronger farm system. The Phillies' system is largely a barren wasteland -- at least in terms of players that will help soon -- that will only get better if they can trade Hamels properly.

JMDurron is right that the Phillies are probably an easier rebuild in OOTP than in real life, but I'd still consider it more challenging than the Cubs if you have certain trade and AI evaluation settings that most people agree make trading difficult (and more realistic).

Which Settings would you recommend?

[chriskelly]

it depends on what you want to do and what house rules you use. I agree the Cubs ML roster sucks, but their only bad deal is Edwin Jackson, and they've got a great farm system. I agree SD and Hou suck, but they do have some farm talent and very little salary. Those two teams have the 28th and 29th lowest salaries; not hard to rebuild them.

I agree the Phils are the hardest, especially if your goal is to manage spending too. I also agree the ratings in the game are not realistic for proneness to injury for guys like Howard.

My 2nd choice after the Phils would probably be Milwalkee.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by jdono927

Which Settings would you recommend?

Trading on hard or very hard; favor prospects or neutral; and AI eval settings usually take some testing to figure out what you like, but a popular choice around here seems to be in the ballpark of 35/35/20/10. But like I said, those AI eval settings allow for a lot of variation, so you should adjust them as you feel needed.

[DustinthePOWERHOUSE]

Originally Posted by chriskelly

it depends on what you want to do and what house rules you use. I agree the Cubs ML roster sucks, but their only bad deal is Edwin Jackson, and they've got a great farm system. I agree SD and Hou suck, but they do have some farm talent and very little salary. Those two teams have the 28th and 29th lowest salaries; not hard to rebuild them.

I agree the Phils are the hardest, especially if your goal is to manage spending too. I also agree the ratings in the game are not realistic for proneness to injury for guys like Howard.

My 2nd choice after the Phils would probably be Milwalkee.

So about Houston the fact that their salaries aren't so terrible is beneficial, as it is easy to gain finances quickly, however in terms of prospect talent they really have very little after Correra. Springer has a pretty low rating with a terrible contact rating and aside from that it's pretty barren.

I'm rebuilding with trade difficulty on hard and favoring prospects on. No recent draft picks trading as well as no shenanigans with "commish" mode or any of that baloney and I'm in the third year and JUST hit .500 after two years of 100 loses.

I think Houston is still the toughest, with Philly a close second though they have some desired pieces (Hamels) and their big negative is on the opposite end of the spectrum in terms of awful salaries.

[mmarra82]

If it were today, the A's now that they traded away their starters and did not get the same in return for the prospects they dealt when they went for it all.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by mmarra82

If it were today, the A's now that they traded away their starters and did not get the same in return for the prospects they dealt when they went for it all.

Still not sure I'd consider them tougher than the Phillies, but that'll almost certainly change if they trade Hamels. My theory being that the A's have already started the rebuilding process whereas the Phillies have resisted it for more than a year now.