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Old 09-04-2019, 06:18 AM   #1
Markus Heinsohn
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Lightbulb Tournaments - New Info & Screenshots

Hey guys,

last week I promised a more detailed development update on the PT Tournaments feature. As probably many of you know, we initially listed April as the planned release date for tournaments when we announced the game back in February. But, as software development sometimes goes unfortunately, several unexpected difficulties lead to a delay and hence we're still working on the feature. But, we are making good progress every single day. The plan is to have a public beta as soon as everything is functioning properly, then work out the last kinks and do some tweaking and then launch it officially. I do not know when exactly that will be, but as always we'll keep you in the loop.

Here's an updated version of the description I posted back in May:

General Overview

Tournaments in PT will be available in all sorts of shape and sizes.

To enter a PT tournament, a user does not have to pay some sort of buy-in, it’s free for all PT users. Users can enter up to three tournaments at the same time.

Most tournaments ("Quick Tournaments") will start play immediately once the number of teams who have signed up reach the limit of the tournament , at which time this particular tournament starts and another identical one will open for sign-up. Some tournaments will have a fixed daily start date (eg 6 PM ET), other (bigger) tournaments will have a weekly start time, eg. Tuesdays at 8 PM ET. We will probably have some tournaments which cater to the Asian and the European market in terms of start time.

Tournaments will have a quicker pace of play, we are currently thinking about having most of them simulate once every 10 minutes. Some tournaments will likely have a slower, or even quicker pace, we’ll probably experiment here and evaluate the user feedback to see what works best.

Tournaments do NOT pay out PP for achievements. The winner of a tournament (or the top 2 or 4 teams, depending on size) receive a reward in the form of either Perfect Points, exclusive cards, exclusive card packs or regular card packs.

Users can access the list of available and signed-up tournaments from the OOTP start screen. You can easily sign up (or cancel) via a click of a button, and once a tournament has started, you can access the tournament via a "PLAY" button which will download the tournament files and enter the PT area, just like regular PT league play.

Tournament Types

We have the possibility to offer tournaments of many different sizes and shapes, eg. normal elimination best-of-1 tournaments, round robin tournaments, or typical MLB playoff style tournaments, or custom ones (for example 32 teams, eliminations style, best-of-3 for each series).

Many tournaments are without restrictions, meaning anyone can sign up and all cards can be used. We call them the “Open Tournaments”.

Some tournaments are with certain restrictions on the cards that can be used. We call them “Restricted Tournaments”. There are two types of restirctions, roster restrictions and card restrictions. Roster restrictions are for example only cards rated 69 (Bronze) or lower are allowed on the active roster, or a total card value "salary cap" of X total value (i.e. 1750, so 70 on average).

Here are the roster restrictions available:
NONE // no restriction, open tournament
IRON // only iron
BRONZE // only bronze or lower
SILVER // only silver or lower
GOLD // only gold or lower
DIAMOND // only diamond or lower
CARD_VALUE // total card value on active roster

Here are the card restrictions, which dictate which cards can be on the active roster:
NONE // no restriction
LIVE_ONLY // live only
HISTORICAL_ONLY // historical only
NONLIVE_ONLY // non-live (ie. historical + special)

So, having handled the restrictions, let's get to the different tournament modes. We have 11 different modes, and we have tournament sizes of 8 up to 128 teams. Maybe later we'll have even more, if we figure out how to keep download sizes small. Here are the different modes:
SINGLE_ELIMINATION = 0, // best of 1, do-or-die
SINGLE_FBO3_ELIMINATION, // best of 1, finals best of 3
BO3_ELIMINATION, // best of 3
BO3_FBO5_ELIMINATION, // best of 3, finals best of 5
BO5_ELIMINATION, // best of 5
BO5_FBO7_ELIMINATION, // best of 5, finals best of 7
BO7_ELIMINATION, // best of 7
RR_ELIMINATION, // Round-Robin, groups of 4 teams
RR_FB3, // Round-Robin, finals B3
2RR_ELIMINATION, // Double-Round-Robin, groups of 4 teams
2RR_FB3, // Double-Round-Robin, finals B3
DEL_ELIMINATION, // Double-Elimination
DEL_FB3, // Double-Elimination, finals B3

We will also have different tournaments play in a different era / year, for example the Dead Ball era, which results in some interesting strategic decisions and a different statistical output than regular PT league play. Some tournaments will have a DH rule, others won't.

Examples


So, putting it all together, there is an almost infinite number of possible tournaments. There will be plenty of available tournaments at all times, except when we make the transfer to the new season on Monday morning ET. During that time (about 4 hours) there will be no tournaments available while we complete the transition and live card updates (during regular season).

Each tournaments has a name and an ID, so the displayed name (for reference in lists) could be something like “Q-Open-DoD-T64-ID351“, which would be a quick tournament, no restrictions, 64 teams, do-or-die mode (best-of-1 series) with the ID 351.

For starters, we will have between 50 to 100 tournaments available for sign up at all times, here are a few examples:
Q-Silver-Historical-Bo7-T32-IDXXX = A quick (starts as soon as full) tournament, only Silver cards or lower on active roster, Best-of-7 series, 32 Teams.
Q-Cap1900-Live-RRF3-T64-IDXXX = A quick tournament, salary cap of 1900 total card value on active roster, Round-Robin mode with Best-of-3 finals, 64 Teams.
D-Gold-Bo5F7-T128-IDXXX = A daily tournament, only Gold cards or lower on active roster, Best-of-5 Series with Finals Best-of-7, 128 Teams
Q-Open-Live-DoD-T8-IDXXX = A quick tournament, only Live cards, Do-or-Die (Best-of-1 series), 8 Teams, No DH
W-Open-Historical-2RR-T64-IDXXX = A weekly historical cards-only tournament, Double-Round-Robin mode, Deadball Era settings, No DH, 64 Teams

Rewards

The bigger the tournament and the more games & rounds, the more precious the final price. For the Weekly Open we will most likely have super rare exclusive Perfect Cards (which can only be won in tournaments and not be pulled from packs) as the price, while small regular tournaments will reward PErfect Points or a Regular, Gold or even Diamond Pack(s) to the winner, for example. We will also reward super rare cards in tournaments which have a “salary cap”, so that teams from lower league levels get a chance to win these cards, too. These cards can be sold at the Auction House, of course. Some tounaments will pay out rewards to the 2nd place finish and some even for 3rd & 4th place (so when you make the semi finals).

History


The manager history will track tournament participation and results, and for the big tournaments we’ll probably have little icons for the winners in the team & manager screen, which winning teams can show off proudly.

Future Development

We will continue to work on tournaments for future versions, improving this feature with many new modes and tournament types, for example Qualifying Tournaments for really big events which only run once every two weeks or even monthly. We’re just getting started!

Here are a couple of screenshots how to access tournaments from the Main Screen.
Attached Images
Image Image 

Last edited by Matt Arnold; 09-04-2019 at 07:00 AM.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:05 AM   #2
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One question that comes to my mind: how long do we have to submit our rosters? Considering some of us have 100s, maybe even 1000s of players that might take a while.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:27 AM   #3
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I'm looking forward to all these packs entering the economy more than the tournaments themselves.

Thanks for the work and updates
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancariaz View Post
One question that comes to my mind: how long do we have to submit our rosters? Considering some of us have 100s, maybe even 1000s of players that might take a while.
10 Minutes. However, if you have already entered a tournament with the same restrictions in the past, the game will automatically re-import that roster to start with. So that will speed things up a lot.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:33 AM   #5
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the more options and cases possible, the more you devs feel stressful maybe.
thanks for your huge effort on tournament update sincerely.


I have some questions.


1) 3 tournaments available at a time, means if someone fully join 3 at the same time. in that case, if user falls early in one tournament, when is possible for joining new tournament? (ex. I joined 3 and lost in do-or-die daily tournament early, can I join another new one when I fall or wait till the end?)


2) in some tournaments rewards can be offered to more than one guy. if one tournament gives reward to four guys, they get same reward? (ex. champion gets one perfect card, and other three guys(2-3-4) get same card also?)


3) there are some 'fixed time starting' tournaments. using quoted ones, weekly tournaments start at 8 PM E.T. on Tuesday, daily ones start at 6 PM E.T. so, how long would you let users 'sign up' for those 'fixed time' tournaments before they start?


4) tbh, very surprised when I saw about the explanations of roster restrictions, card restrictions, and many of tournament cases. I just multiplied those counts. countless options there. thanks to your huge effort about considering all those things one more time and hope you guys make this game more and more interesting although it's a too hard thing which needs tons of headache. (I really expect OOTP Go also!).

** taking care of yourself is the most important (for users XD)!
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
1) 3 tournaments available at a time, means if someone fully join 3 at the same time. in that case, if user falls early in one tournament, when is possible for joining new tournament? (ex. I joined 3 and lost in do-or-die daily tournament early, can I join another new one when I fall or wait till the end?)
Good question. Right now you have to wait until the tournament is over. But maybe we'll change it in the future.

Quote:
2) in some tournaments rewards can be offered to more than one guy. if one tournament gives reward to four guys, they get same reward? (ex. champion gets one perfect card, and other three guys(2-3-4) get same card also?)
No, rewards are different for the different positions you finish. For example it may be 1000 PP for 1st place, 500 PP for 2nd, 250 PP for 3rd & 4th each.

Quote:
3) there are some 'fixed time starting' tournaments. using quoted ones, weekly tournaments start at 8 PM E.T. on Tuesday, daily ones start at 6 PM E.T. so, how long would you let users 'sign up' for those 'fixed time' tournaments before they start?
We're not sure about that yet. I imagine 12 hours in advance.

Quote:
4) tbh, very surprised when I saw about the explanations of roster restrictions, card restrictions, and many of tournament cases. I just multiplied those counts. countless options there. thanks to your huge effort about considering all those things one more time and hope you guys make this game more and more interesting although it's a too hard thing which needs tons of headache. (I really expect OOTP Go also!).
Thanks! Yes, we want to do this right so it's worth the wait...
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:56 AM   #7
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Not a question so much as a comment/concern: salary cap tournaments with a sufficiently large "cap" are likely to have expensive teams using the top possible rotation (100 Cy Young, 100 Walter Johnson, some combination of Maddux/Hoyt/Pedro/Schilling/Walsh for the last three) along with a very weak bench. That kind of a team is probably borderline-unbeatable if the competition mostly has silvers and golds with a few diamonds on the roster; those top starting pitchers have disproportionately more value compared to lower pitchers than do the elite hitters to lesser hitters. I don't think ultra-rare cards should be rewards for this kind of a tournament unless the cap is so low that rotations can't be stacked. Just my two cents, and apologies for clogging up what should be an exciting thread with concerns.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:59 AM   #8
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Yeah. In tournaments capped by the sum of overall I am putting all 40 rated cards on my bench and playing with the best starting 9 plus however many pitchers I need.

Hopefully that was expected so the cap is skewed down.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:09 AM   #9
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We'll certainly experiment with different cap values to see what makes sense. But the intention is also to give much fewer off-days than a standard playoff series too, so you will need at least some depth.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkgo View Post
Yeah. In tournaments capped by the sum of overall I am putting all 40 rated cards on my bench and playing with the best starting 9 plus however many pitchers I need.

Hopefully that was expected so the cap is skewed down.
ah, the FIFA bronze bench meta
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:12 AM   #11
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You could alternately have roster restrictions of no perfect, no diamonds of 96 OVR or hgher, and then I think a higher salary cap would still be doable for many teams without giving a huge advantage to the big spenders. There are probably other solutions I'm not thinking of. I just wanted to voice concern that a salary cap tournament without a severe cap and/or additional constraints could be gamed to the point where most teams wouldn't have a shot at the reward card.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jda View Post
You could alternately have roster restrictions of no perfect, no diamonds of 96 OVR or hgher, and then I think a higher salary cap would still be doable for many teams without giving a huge advantage to the big spenders. There are probably other solutions I'm not thinking of. I just wanted to voice concern that a salary cap tournament without a severe cap and/or additional constraints could be gamed to the point where most teams wouldn't have a shot at the reward card.
Yes, we have several of these, see the text:

Quote:
Here are the roster restrictions available:
NONE // no restriction, open tournament
IRON // only iron
BRONZE // only bronze or lower
SILVER // only silver or lower
GOLD // only gold or lower
DIAMOND // only diamond or lower
CARD_VALUE // total card value on active roster
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:19 AM   #13
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We'll certainly experiment with different cap values to see what makes sense. But the intention is also to give much fewer off-days than a standard playoff series too, so you will need at least some depth.
Cool. Wasn't sure what the scheduling would be like.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:31 AM   #14
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Ok, I have a few questions that haven't been asked:

1. Will tournament games be simmed every 30 minutes, as with non-tourney games, or will they be simmed more or less frequently?
2. Trying to figure out how long the daily, weekly tourneys might take. Considering the example you posted above, "D-Gold-Bo5F7-T128-IDXXX = A daily tournament, only Gold cards or lower on active roster, Best-of-5 Series with Finals Best-of-7, 128 Teams", that would be 37 "sims" (6*5+7) of actual games total. If they are simmed every half hour, that would be 18.5 hours. plus extra time for each non-simmed day, which could come to 21 hours or more. So that means anybody that enters that is locked in for 21 or 22 hours. Is that the way it would work?
3. Will players learn positions they are assigned to when playing tournaments? Or will they only earn them when playing in regular mode?

Thanks in advance for your answers!
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:20 AM   #15
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Ok, I have a few questions that haven't been asked:

1. Will tournament games be simmed every 30 minutes, as with non-tourney games, or will they be simmed more or less frequently?
2. Trying to figure out how long the daily, weekly tourneys might take. Considering the example you posted above, "D-Gold-Bo5F7-T128-IDXXX = A daily tournament, only Gold cards or lower on active roster, Best-of-5 Series with Finals Best-of-7, 128 Teams", that would be 37 "sims" (6*5+7) of actual games total. If they are simmed every half hour, that would be 18.5 hours. plus extra time for each non-simmed day, which could come to 21 hours or more. So that means anybody that enters that is locked in for 21 or 22 hours. Is that the way it would work?
3. Will players learn positions they are assigned to when playing tournaments? Or will they only earn them when playing in regular mode?

Thanks in advance for your answers!
1. As Markus said above, we might be looking at more like every 10 mins per sim, although some may be the full 30 mins between games.
2. The plan is to avoid days off, so with a 10 minute sim time yes that tournament may still be 6-7 hours to play it through. But you can enter 3 tournaments at a time, plus you have your normal team to worry about. But you can bet that one would have a big prize.
3. No, players will not learn in tournaments. It will be like the entry pool in that respect. I believe they would keep any training from regular leagues, but I'm not sure if we have fully finalized that as the rule so far.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:25 AM   #16
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This looks fantastic. Can't wait to see it live. Thanks for the update.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:31 AM   #17
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1. As Markus said above, we might be looking at more like every 10 mins per sim, although some may be the full 30 mins between games.
2. The plan is to avoid days off, so with a 10 minute sim time yes that tournament may still be 6-7 hours to play it through. But you can enter 3 tournaments at a time, plus you have your normal team to worry about. But you can bet that one would have a big prize.
3. No, players will not learn in tournaments. It will be like the entry pool in that respect. I believe they would keep any training from regular leagues, but I'm not sure if we have fully finalized that as the rule so far.
I like keeping something standardized between all tournaments like no days off (I'm guessing there will need to be some though in the ones with best of 7 series since they wont end at the same time). Otherwise I feel like it can be a bit overwhelming to plan for.

At ten minutes per sim those 8 man knockouts can end in just half an hour! Nice
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Old 09-04-2019, 12:08 PM   #18
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With no training accumulating during tournaments, it seems like there will be a huge market for trained players. Have you guys considered:

A) Updating the AH to reflect player training so that the entire market can participate in those auctions and not just those from here or Discord with insider info on the card training?

B) Alternative ways to train players so that we aren't forcing low level players on our PeL rosters. i.e. some sort of minor league development option where you can run a B-team in leagues in addition to your main team?
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Old 09-04-2019, 12:41 PM   #19
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Thank you for the update.

Will stats earned in a tournament show up on the player's history or will they just vanish once a tournament ends?

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Old 09-04-2019, 12:44 PM   #20
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These look like they're going to be a lot of fun. Thanks for all your time, effort, and dedication to seeing this thing though and doing it right.

My one question is this: when we are doing an average card value tournament, will there be a function on the screen that will calculate our player average as we make changes to our roster or will we have to have a calculator handy and do it all for ourselves?
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