Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.6 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 6 Available

FHM 6 Available Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Baseball 20 > OOTP Mods > OOTP Mods - 3D Models

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-22-2019, 11:18 PM   #1
Garlon
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,865
Thanks: 7
Thanked 224x in 129 posts
Historic ballparks we don't have

Perhaps someone out there has some of these or wants to work on them. These are parks that the existing MLB franchises played in at some point that we don't have. Adion and Silvam have every park from about 1910-present.

Braves
South End Grounds 1876-1887
South End Grounds 1888-1894
South End Grounds 1894-1915

Orioles
Lloyd Street Grounds 1901

Red Sox
Huntington Avenue Grounds 1901-1911

Cubs
23rd Street Grounds 1876-1877
Lake Front Park 1878-1882
Lake Front Park 1883-1884
West Side Park 1885-1890
South Side Park 1891-1893
West Side Park 1894-1915

White Sox
South Side Park 1901-1909

Reds
Bank Street Grounds 1882-1883
League Park 1884-1893
League Park 1894-1901
Palace of the Fans 1902-1911

Tigers
Bennett Park 1901-1911

Indians
League Park 1901-1909

Dodgers
Washington Park 1884-1889
Washington Park 1890
Eastern Park 1891-1897
Washington Park 1898-1912

Twins
American League Park 1901-1903
American League Park 1904-1910

Yankees
Oriole Park 1901-1902
Hilltop Park 1903-1911

Athletics
Columbia Park 1901-1908

Phillies
Recreation Park 1883-1886
Philadelphia Baseball Grounds 1887-1894

Pirates
Recreation Park 1882-1884
Recreation Park 1885-1890
Exposition Park 1891-1908

Giants
Polo Grounds 1883-1888
Polo Grounds 1889-1890
Polo Grounds 1891-1910

Cardinals
Sportsmans Park 1882-1892
Robison Field 1893-1919
Garlon is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
silvam14 (01-22-2019)
Old 01-27-2019, 01:18 PM   #2
The Game
Hall Of Famer
 
The Game's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Inside The Game
Posts: 20,656
Thanks: 9,229
Thanked 3,083x in 2,464 posts
Detroit Tigers - Briggs Stadium, yes i know it was called Tiger Stadium but he has Navin Field 1936 then nothing til Tiger Stadium 1970.
__________________
Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence


Congrats Harold Baines

"Stay Strong"
The Game is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 03:38 PM   #3
Garlon
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,865
Thanks: 7
Thanked 224x in 129 posts
He has a Briggs Field 1938-1947, Tiger Stadium 1948-1979, and Tiger Stadium 1980-1999.

I went through every team and as far as I could tell the only gaps we have in ballparks are what I listed in the first post.
Garlon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 05:39 PM   #4
The Game
Hall Of Famer
 
The Game's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Inside The Game
Posts: 20,656
Thanks: 9,229
Thanked 3,083x in 2,464 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garlon View Post
He has a Briggs Field 1938-1947, Tiger Stadium 1948-1979, and Tiger Stadium 1980-1999.

I went through every team and as far as I could tell the only gaps we have in ballparks are what I listed in the first post.
Adion does, Silvam does not. i'm using Adions Briggs.
__________________
Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence


Congrats Harold Baines

"Stay Strong"
The Game is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2019, 10:03 AM   #5
Ty Cobb
All Star Starter
 
Ty Cobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Grayling, MI
Posts: 1,298
Thanks: 642
Thanked 993x in 410 posts
Sacramento CA...Hughes Stadium
Salt Lake City...Bonneville Park

These would be "entertaining" to add!
__________________
"Right in the lumberyard, Danny."
Ty Cobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2019, 01:15 PM   #6
joefromchicago
Hall Of Famer
 
joefromchicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,713
Thanks: 1,475
Thanked 1,976x in 1,009 posts
Good luck finding information on some of those wooden ballparks from the 19th century. There are no photographs of some of them, such as Lakefront Park in Chicago. There's only one known photograph of the Lloyd St Grounds (Milwaukee), and only a couple of photos of the original Sportsman's Park in St Louis that I'm aware of. In some cases, it's not even clear where the park was located.
joefromchicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2019, 10:16 PM   #7
silvam14
Hall Of Famer
 
silvam14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dedham, MA
Posts: 7,240
Thanks: 1,334
Thanked 6,047x in 2,166 posts
Here's an update:

Braves
South End Grounds 1876-1887
South End Grounds 1888-1894
South End Grounds 1894-1915 - DONE

Orioles
Lloyd Street Grounds 1901 - DONE

Red Sox
Huntington Avenue Grounds 1901-1911 - DONE

Cubs
23rd Street Grounds 1876-1877
Lake Front Park 1878-1882
Lake Front Park 1883-1884
West Side Park 1885-1890
South Side Park 1891-1893
West Side Grounds 1894-1915 - DONE

White Sox
South Side Park 1901-1909 - DONE

Reds
Bank Street Grounds 1882-1883
League Park 1884-1893
League Park 1894-1901 - DONE
Palace of the Fans 1902-1911

Tigers
Bennett Park 1901-1911 - DONE

Indians
League Park 1901-1909 - DONE

Dodgers
Washington Park 1884-1889
Washington Park 1890
Eastern Park 1891-1897
Washington Park 1898-1912 - DONE

Twins
American League Park 1901-1903 - DONE
American League Park 1904-1910

Yankees
Oriole Park 1901-1902 - DONE
Hilltop Park 1903-1911

Athletics
Columbia Park 1901-1908 - DONE

Phillies
Recreation Park 1883-1886
Philadelphia Baseball Grounds 1887-1894

Pirates
Recreation Park 1882-1884
Recreation Park 1885-1890
Exposition Park 1891-1908 - DONE

Giants
Polo Grounds 1883-1888
Polo Grounds 1889-1890
Polo Grounds 1891-1910 - DONE

Cardinals
Sportsmans Park 1882-1892
Robison Field 1893-1919 - DONE
__________________
Senior "Nancy Boy" of the OOTP Boards
_______________________________________________
silvam14 is offline   Reply With Quote
3 thanks for this post:
Garlon (03-25-2019), JaBurns (03-30-2019), txranger (03-25-2019)
Old 03-25-2019, 06:04 PM   #8
Garlon
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,865
Thanks: 7
Thanked 224x in 129 posts
This is great, silvam. Thank you for your work. Just a few more to go and we'll have every park since 1901.

Palace of the Fans 1902-1911
American League Park 1904-1910
Hilltop Park 1903-1911

Are you working on these as well?
Garlon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2019, 07:04 PM   #9
silvam14
Hall Of Famer
 
silvam14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dedham, MA
Posts: 7,240
Thanks: 1,334
Thanked 6,047x in 2,166 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garlon View Post
This is great, silvam. Thank you for your work. Just a few more to go and we'll have every park since 1901.

Palace of the Fans 1902-1911
American League Park 1904-1910
Hilltop Park 1903-1911

Are you working on these as well?
Yes Sir.

possibly have those done this week
__________________
Senior "Nancy Boy" of the OOTP Boards
_______________________________________________
silvam14 is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
Fredrocker (03-26-2019), sdw1000 (03-26-2019)
Old 03-30-2019, 10:02 AM   #10
BaseballMan
Hall Of Famer
 
BaseballMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,523
Thanks: 69
Thanked 513x in 326 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by joefromchicago View Post
Good luck finding information on some of those wooden ballparks from the 19th century. There are no photographs of some of them, such as Lakefront Park in Chicago. There's only one known photograph of the Lloyd St Grounds (Milwaukee), and only a couple of photos of the original Sportsman's Park in St Louis that I'm aware of. In some cases, it's not even clear where the park was located.

Couldn't the descriptions of those ballparks be used with a little fictional imagination? Just use the information that is available. Maybe even take some fictional ballparks and adjust them to that era. There seems to be enough info for the game to set dimensions. Maybe some basic ones with just fences and gradually getting more complex with billboards of the day. It may not be exact but it would be better than nothing.
I wish i had the talent to do it.
BaseballMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 12:49 PM   #11
joefromchicago
Hall Of Famer
 
joefromchicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,713
Thanks: 1,475
Thanked 1,976x in 1,009 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballMan View Post
Couldn't the descriptions of those ballparks be used with a little fictional imagination? Just use the information that is available.
Well sure, if you're going to make stuff up, then that would make everything a whole lot easier

I imagine that purists wouldn't be satisfied with that solution, but for some of those early ballparks there's practically no information available. For instance, the Boston franchise played its first twelve NL seasons at the South End Grounds (I), yet there is no information about the field dimensions. A Google image search for "South End Grounds" invariably brings up images of the third South End Grounds, which was the team's home from 1894 to 1914, and a number of sites make the mistake of assuming that the three ballparks named "South End Grounds" were all the same ballpark. This photo (source) is the only one that I could find that shows even a portion of the original park:

Name:  South-End-Grounds-1875.jpg
Views: 461
Size:  106.7 KB

We know some basic information about the park, largely because it was on the same site as the two successive "South End Grounds," but exact information is almost impossible to come by. Does that matter? Not to me, but I suppose others might have a problem with incorporating a "conjectural" South End Grounds in the game.
joefromchicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 03:24 PM   #12
BaseballMan
Hall Of Famer
 
BaseballMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,523
Thanks: 69
Thanked 513x in 326 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by joefromchicago View Post
Well sure, if you're going to make stuff up, then that would make everything a whole lot easier

I imagine that purists wouldn't be satisfied with that solution, but for some of those early ballparks there's practically no information available. [
We have to accept what is available and work with what we got. Unless a purist can bring up the data it doesn't matter. They wouldn't be force to use them. Basing a ballpark on the ones we do have is better than none at all.
When simming from that era i find the fictional setup the game uses hard to accept as we have the information and can do something about it.
But when it comes to getting every trade date correct, i am more lenient
at just gettting the players and teams correct when no date is available.

No it may not be the exact South End Grounds of those years but we could have an educated guess at what it looked like. I'm not sure that even purists would get upset since there is no data. I think they would get upset if the ballparks were modeled after Three Rivers Stadium or even the retro parks. If its done in the style of the 19th century parks and is an option then it might work. Anything close would be better than feeling like every game is on the same field.
BaseballMan is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
Dingers5Days (03-30-2019), mitchkenn (04-07-2019)
Old 03-30-2019, 04:24 PM   #13
Dingers5Days
Bat Boy
 
Dingers5Days's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 12
Thanked 2x in 2 posts
I'm not someone who can actually MAKE the 3D ballparks, but I can sure gather info on the ballparks we don't have- at least as much info that's available.
Dingers5Days is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 04:38 PM   #14
Dingers5Days
Bat Boy
 
Dingers5Days's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 12
Thanked 2x in 2 posts
I'll go with the list from Garlon. Starting with the Braves:

South End Grounds I (1876-1887)

Found no new photos, but potential dimensions info: LF 250, CF 440, RF 255.

South End Grounds II (1888-1894)
Photos: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...54068409198883 https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...54068409198883 http://www.19cbaseball.com/rules-2.html

Dimensions: "The dimensions of the outfield were 250 feet from home base in left field, 445 feet in left center, 500 feet to straight away center field, 440 feet in right center and 255 feet in right field."

I'll cover the Cubs a little later.

Last edited by Dingers5Days; 03-30-2019 at 04:47 PM.
Dingers5Days is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 05:11 PM   #15
Dingers5Days
Bat Boy
 
Dingers5Days's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 12
Thanked 2x in 2 posts
What the heck, I'll do it now.

23rd Street Grounds

Just about no information available. It's reported the outfield dimensions were "short", and this barely passes as a photo: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...54069215715081

Lake Front Park (1878-1884)

Photos: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...54069344233975 https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...54069344233975

Dimensions: The only just about confirmed dimensions of the park is that right field was ridiculously short at 190-200 feet. Balls hit over the right field fence were called ground rule doubles until 1884, when HRs spiked that season for Chicago. Nothing else is confirmed, but my guesses on other dimensions is 220-250 feet in left and 430-490 in center.

West Side Park 1885-1890


Photos: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ark_ca1885.JPG

Dimensions: 216 in right, 560 in center. The left field dimensions are unknown, but considering the property, left field was probably very similar to left, probably about 215-240 feet.

South Side Park (1891-1893)

Just about no information available. The dimensions were most likely dissimilar to the following South Side Park, as it was located on a different property.
Dingers5Days is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2019, 08:37 PM   #16
joefromchicago
Hall Of Famer
 
joefromchicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,713
Thanks: 1,475
Thanked 1,976x in 1,009 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingers5Days View Post
I'll go with the list from Garlon. Starting with the Braves:

South End Grounds I (1876-1887)

Found no new photos, but potential dimensions info: LF 250, CF 440, RF 255.


Dimensions: "The dimensions of the outfield were 250 feet from home base in left field, 445 feet in left center, 500 feet to straight away center field, 440 feet in right center and 255 feet in right field."
Those dimensions, from the Wikipedia article, are for South End Grounds III. I saw similar numbers in the SABR article (which I linked), but I intentionally did not cite them because I consider them unreliable. First of all, it's from Michael Benson's Ballparks of North America, which, as others have noted, contains some troubling inaccuracies. In contrast, more reliable sources, like Green Cathedrals and the Seamheads ballpark database, do not show any dimensions for the first South End Grounds. Secondly, the dimensions cited by Benson are roughly the same dimensions as the third South End Grounds. Now, is it possible that the two parks had identical dimensions? Well, they occupied the same site, so it's possible, but I consider it improbable, as it's unlikely the Boston management wanted to duplicate a park that it had torn down seven years earlier. I think it's more likely that Benson was either sloppy in his research or just didn't think it was important to differentiate between the two ballparks. In short, I'm unconvinced by Benson's numbers.

Last edited by joefromchicago; 03-30-2019 at 08:51 PM.
joefromchicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 11:16 PM   #17
the_mad_monk
Major Leagues
 
the_mad_monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 317
Thanks: 40
Thanked 347x in 178 posts
South End Grounds I

An artist's rendition from an 1876 trade card:

Offered for the first time (as best we could determine) is a very rare 1876 trade card advertising "Barb Fence Armor." Barb wire was first patented in 1868 making this a very early promotion for the product which was popular with farmers and ranchers. It seems it was also a favored part of the stadium for the Boston Base Ball Grounds (also known as South End Grounds) as the the front displays a wood cut scene of a game being played plus surrounding buildings. The back copy conveys the testimonial of N.F. Apolonio, President.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-c...a/7041-80002.s
Attached Images
Image 
the_mad_monk is offline   Reply With Quote
3 thanks for this post:
BaseballMan (04-07-2019), Dingers5Days (04-08-2019), joefromchicago (04-07-2019)
Old 04-07-2019, 05:24 PM   #18
the_mad_monk
Major Leagues
 
the_mad_monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 317
Thanks: 40
Thanked 347x in 178 posts
The Herald Ham Nine baseball team pose for a group portrait at the South End Grounds in Boston, Massachusetts. 1880 would've been the South End Grounds I.
Attached Images
Image 

Last edited by the_mad_monk; 04-07-2019 at 05:27 PM.
the_mad_monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2019, 09:58 AM   #19
joefromchicago
Hall Of Famer
 
joefromchicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,713
Thanks: 1,475
Thanked 1,976x in 1,009 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_mad_monk View Post
An artist's rendition from an 1876 trade card:
Excellent find! That, together with the 1875 photo, can give us a pretty good idea of what the grandstand at the original South End Grounds looked like, which could then form the basis for a historically faithful recreation of the ballpark. Of course, we still don't know what the field dimensions were, but since the OOTP game engine doesn't care, I'm not sure why we should.

A few more observations:

1. The owners of the Red Stockings were notorious penny-pinchers, so perhaps it's no surprise that they would be installing barbed-wire on top of the fences to keep out freeloaders. Still, nothing says "fun at the old ballpark" quite like a wall that makes the place look like a prison.

2. The field dimensions, if they exist, typically show the distances from home plate to the outfield fence, but one thing they often leave out is the amount of foul territory behind the plate and down the lines. In the ballparks of the nineteenth century, foul ground was often enormous, especially when measured by today's standards. The trade card gives some feel for that, although the artist's rendition is all screwed up and the perspective is downright weird.

The current minimum distance from home plate to the backstop (60 feet) was only instituted in the 1930s. Before then, the minimum distance was 90 feet, and often it was more than that. The reason was simple: there was no netting protecting the fans behind home plate and down the lines from errant foul balls, so seats had to be a safe distance from the batter. That also explains why the grandstand at South End Grounds and those at other ballparks were so high. That can be seen in the photo, which shows that the wall behind home plate is, I estimate, at least 10' tall.

3. Another feature that the photo shows is the board fence in front of the grandstand. That wasn't unique to the South End Grounds - the Messer Street Grounds in Providence had something similar.

Name:  messer street grounds.jpg
Views: 308
Size:  197.4 KB

At Providence, I've read that the locker rooms were underneath the grandstands, so the fence protected players going to and from the clubhouse. At Boston, there were evidently concession stands there. What's unusual is that the Boston management put bleachers between the fence and the grandstand, thereby squeezing a couple dozen more paying customers into the park at the risk, no doubt, of killing a few each season due to foul balls. That board fence wasn't there to protect the fans - presumably no one was sitting directly behind it. Instead, it was clearly just a backstop for balls so they wouldn't roll under the bleachers. The fans had to watch out for themselves.

4. As the trade card shows, canvas sheets were installed on the wall down the first base side to prevent people in the houses across the street from seeing the games for free. That is something that is timeless - Connie Mack did the same thing at Shibe Park in the 1910s, and the Cubs were still doing it in the 1990s at Wrigley Field.

Last edited by joefromchicago; 04-08-2019 at 10:11 AM.
joefromchicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
the_mad_monk (04-08-2019)
Old 04-08-2019, 11:28 AM   #20
the_mad_monk
Major Leagues
 
the_mad_monk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 317
Thanks: 40
Thanked 347x in 178 posts
Another photo from Messer Street Grounds featuring both the Grays and Boston from 1878.
Attached Images
Image 

Last edited by the_mad_monk; 04-08-2019 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Changed referenced photo date from 1879 to 1878 per NY Public Library
the_mad_monk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:00 PM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2018 Out of the Park Developments