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Old 07-26-2006, 06:51 PM   #21
Assos
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Exactly.... sitting on the reserve roster does not for me. I must have stats and developmet..... How do I know Johnny Bench is ready or not? The reserve roster does not show me he is hitting .400 with 10HR in AAA.
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Old 07-26-2006, 08:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highlander
I think most of us know that.....we want a minor league system in historical leagues, not a "reserve list". I really enjoy watching the prospects move up (and down) my minor league system, checking their stats in minor league games, etc. As it is now, I can't do that without fictional players being there too.
OK, well that's not truly historical leagues. You can't say you're replaying seasons with players who aren't using their true ratings, can you? Let's face it, even using "real" names, you're still playing a fictitious league. I prefer historical replays using real players and their real ratings, playing just that season. Reserve roster works fine for me since I don't want them developing for that one season replay. For the type of games you're talking about, I use 100% fictitious league.

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Old 07-26-2006, 08:37 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Assos
Exactly.... sitting on the reserve roster does not for me. I must have stats and developmet..... How do I know Johnny Bench is ready or not? The reserve roster does not show me he is hitting .400 with 10HR in AAA.
How do you know he will ever be ready, and if he isn't what "real" player is there to fill the roster spot you had hoped he would fill? Once they are imported to the league, their developmnent isn't based on anything historical, it's just based on the same thing fictitious players development is based on, isn't it? Seems to me under those circumstances, you need fictitious players around to fill roster spots of real players who never make it.

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Old 07-26-2006, 09:02 PM   #24
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I know what the Reserve roster does. I don't like it. I like the progression minor leagues provide. You like it, I don't. Don't try to sell me on it. It is not possible. That being said, the reserve roster is the nature of the beast in this version of the game. I hope it goes away next time. Everybody talks about realistic MLB rules and such. There is no realism in a one level minor league dumping ground where players just SIT. May sit there for years. Doing nothing. Drawing an OOTP paycheck, for nothing. A question, since I am waiting on the updated demo and didn't see this happen in the original demo. Do they get hurt there? If not then thats another reason to dislike it. I remember trading for a great young hurler one time in 6.5. I traded top notch major league talent for him and I sent him to the minors fully planning on trading my worst performing starter at the deadline. When I get to the deadline I get ready to make a trade and just happened to notice his name written in the dreaded red color. When I checked he had suffered a CEI in his first start. So my question is do they get hurt while on the Reserve roster? If so I might be able to eventually come to terms with it, but I will never like it.
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Old 07-26-2006, 11:44 PM   #25
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The reserve roster is a rather egregous compromise for the full on historical simmer. Not allowing historical leagues to have minors without the presence of fictional players feels like a shot taken at anyone who plays this way, as if we're not important enough to accomodate. Fictional players always have a way of infiltrating my leagues, no matter how low a setting I put their creation on. Somehow, some way, a few become star players, relagating some 'real' player to the bench or minor leagues. That really kills my interest alot.

And the reserve roster makes me feel like I'm playing soccer or football. Baseball has minor leagues, it's just that simple. I'm not looking to make historical minors, it'd be impossible (I don't stick strictly to history as it is), but not having the semblance of a AAA, AA and A setup to put your prospects in is, for lack of a better word, pathetic. Not seeing how your players are developing is a harbinger upon the game. The reserve roster would be best left to FM or the hockey game that SI produces.

I know this really is getting nowhere with Marc, Markus and SI for, at least, this version, as nothing has been said about fixing this or doing anything about it. They might have a plan for the next version to help with this, but that doesn't help for this version. Having no minor leagues takes alot of fun out of this game for me, as does having to put up with fake players. It's a catch 22, either way, the fun level is just not there. It has nothing to do with anything else (I find the interface to be fine) but this one problem is really just making me not interested playing like I once did (which was everyday; I haven't played the new version in days now despite having free time). I've owned 4 versions of this game now and, until now, I never had this problem.

Until there's an explanation as to why ghost players can't be/aren't in the game or there's a flat out 'no, we're not going to bother', this game is going to collect dust. And the only way I can retort is by not bothering to buy future versions (the only thing a customer can do).

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Old 07-26-2006, 11:52 PM   #26
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Just putting my vote on this list. It addresses one of the key points for me (yes I know there's a workaround, but native support is always better), and a lot of other good stuff too.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:38 PM   #27
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http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=128996

A major push is kicking off in the Feature Requests forum for all aspects of the game.

Here is a link for historical simmers.

It would be keen if you could follow Steve's suggested format for any new posts in that thread.
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Old 08-21-2006, 11:03 AM   #28
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Historical players are encouraged to get their two cents worth in for desired features.

Click here for the link.
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Old 08-21-2006, 12:46 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StyxNCa
How do you know he will ever be ready, and if he isn't what "real" player is there to fill the roster spot you had hoped he would fill? Once they are imported to the league, their developmnent isn't based on anything historical, it's just based on the same thing fictitious players development is based on, isn't it? Seems to me under those circumstances, you need fictitious players around to fill roster spots of real players who never make it.
Actually, no. The game is now very accurate in setting up the current and potential ability ratings for players imported from the Lahman database. As long as you're basing potential on career totals or peak seasons, Johnny Bench is probably going to have the highest possible potential. He is going to develop as long as you don't leave him for dead for several years or only give him minimal playing time. If he doesn't suffer a career ending injury or a major injury that permanently damages his ratings, then he'll become a star in your baseball universe.

Now, if Johnny Bench is owned by an AI club, then all bets are off. I once saw Yogi Berra spend only a couple of seasons as a regular player and then rot away as a third string catcher and reserve list victim until he retired.

It was all because Elston Howard arrived as a rookie in 1955, and the Yankees made him their everyday catcher as opposed to an outfielder who also player catcher behind Berra. Berra had just won the Defensive Player of the Year Award at catcher, but the Yankees didn't care.

They also kept Berra's real life predecessor for a couple of extra seasons, and they acquired yet another catcher in a trade right as Elston Howard was coming in. So the end result was that Berra never played enough to reach his potential. But if the human user has Berra or Bench and gives him the necessary playing time, it is almost certain that he will develop into the same kind of player he was in real life.

This is why the minor leagues are so critical. While players will still develop to an extent on the reserve list, I am convinced that their development is much greater and faster if they are playing games at any level. So, if the AI could send historical players down to the minors (without fictional players getting into the majors), it would probably allow a player like Berra to still develop to his potential and possibly force his way back into the Yankee lineup.
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:31 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Hough
I once saw Yogi Berra spend only a couple of seasons as a regular player and then rot away as a third string catcher and reserve list victim until he retired.

It was all because Elston Howard arrived as a rookie in 1955, and the Yankees made him their everyday catcher as opposed to an outfielder who also player catcher behind Berra. Berra had just won the Defensive Player of the Year Award at catcher, but the Yankees didn't care.
Seems to me that's more of a problem in how the AI assesses player value than anything else. Fix the way the AI weighs the abilities of players, and what you described shouldn't happen anymore (or at the very least it should happen a lot less).

Another aspect is that in 1955 major league teams could open the season with 40 players on the active roster. It wasn't until the 31st day of the season that active roster went down to 25 players (and remained at 25 until Sept. 1st when the limit went back up to 40).

A side note:

In 1957, MLB changed the rules so that the active player limit at the start of the season was 28; it went down to 25 on the 31st day of the season. This move was partly at the request of the minor leagues, as it left them with more players available for their rosters than was case when MLB teams played with up to 40 players for the first month of the season. This rule lasted until 1968, when it was changed so that the active roster limit was 25 right from the start of the season.
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Old 12-07-2006, 10:29 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rasnell View Post
In-game, solo play fun of historical play


1. Study the sheer beauty of the solo play game screen in PureSim. It is very easy to set up your customized stadium, drag and point where you want the fielder and runner boxes to display. The roster cards show both teams' lineups in one screen view while playing. You know who is coming up to bat, you know the pitch count, the righty/lefty of the pitcher, the catcher arm rating, the season stats -- all in the in-game screen view without having to click, toggle or maneuver.

2. You can truly watch the game. The in-ball flight is wonderful. It is easy to customize to any stadium photo, again by simple dragging and clicking where this should appear. No x-y coordinates like OOTP requires.

3. Calling plays is one click and very, very simple (L to jump to lineups; H for hit and run; 2 to steal second base; T to pitch out; P to pitch around). It is so simple; no clickfest; very well-designed.

4. Fonts, text, play by play are all very visible, visually attractive, very easy on the eyes of old-time historical simmers like myself.

5. The play by play text is very valuable. Puresim displays the season stats and that day's game stats for the batter inside the play by play text. It's wonderful.

6. You can actually see the entire play in the play-by-play text window. This is a serious oversight in the current design of OOTP 2006 in my opinion.

I hope rasnells post gets the attention it deserves; Puresim simply blows away OOTP in "historical" and "ingame" feel. The way Puresim integrates player photos/info and park graphics/ball flight etc makes for a tremendously more enjoyable gaming experience.
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Old 12-07-2006, 12:30 PM   #32
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I hope rasnells post gets the attention it deserves; Puresim simply blows away OOTP in "historical" and "ingame" feel. The way Puresim integrates player photos/info and park graphics/ball flight etc makes for a tremendously more enjoyable gaming experience.
Rasnell is telling Markus directly what historical simmers want nowadays.
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Old 12-08-2006, 01:34 PM   #33
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I would like to see the game import historical players with the position they played most of their career if importing based on career stats. I know 2006 did a better job with starting pitchers but players like Jimmie Foxx should come in as
a 1B and not catcher when based on career stats. Or maybe have the game place proiritys on which position a player should learn based on the amount of games he played at that position. Thats one reason i use the arod/garlon career database so i dont have 1b being catchers.
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:17 PM   #34
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Rasnell is telling Markus directly what historical simmers want nowadays.
I hope it comes across more as begging, pleading, suggesting.

I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to be on the historical team for beta testing. I'm even more pleased that this occurred because of the thick skin of Markus and Battists, who had to have been getting tired of my suggestions (complaints) with 2006.

As a footnote, based on the separate thread about the MLB appeal and Sega's decision, I'm not clear as to whether we will still have the ability to import historical rosters on our own. I know that the company cannot ship with them or officially sanction them, but just wondering???
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:05 AM   #35
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In 2007 you can do it very easily. While the reserve list will give you the best historical simulation, you can set up AAA and other minors.

I do not suggest you go below AAA, as there just is not enough extra players to fill minor league teams, and even if you were to somehow fill them with real minor league players, then what? Are you going to bring up Joe Blow, a minor league player who never really saw action that year? There goes your historical accuracy.

Now, with the ghost players, it really works good. You have minor leagues, so you can see how your prospects are doing. Most teams will not have enough players to field a team, so that is where the ghost players come in. If the Mud Hens do not have a SS, a ghost named Joe Unknown will play. His stats are disgarded, but at least you have your minor league guy playing down there.

I like to play with the reserve roster instead of having minor leagues, as you do not have to deal with trying to send guys to the minor and have them refuse. I treat the reserve as a invisible minors. Where, if my backup left fielder is struggling, I can look at the reserve and see what else I have.

If you are running historical and having a draft with the new guys coming in, you will not have much talent in your reserve list or in your minor leagues. They are a lot of scrubs that will not be called up anyhow. But, if you lose Andy Kosko for the season, it is nice to have an old vet you can pull up to fill his spot.
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Old 02-19-2007, 10:08 AM   #36
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It works great in 2007, due to the modifiers.

Babe Ruth will come in as a pitcher and then switch to a hitter. Dennis Ecks will come in as a starter and will eventually switch to a closer (and be darn good at it).

You will not see Jose Cansaco on the mound making an idiot of himself, but that is a good thing.

It also handles the 'Hazle' type hitters quite well.

Even J.R. Richard, he left baseball in his prime. He will put up some numbers after 1980. Purists may want to give him a CEI in 1980.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballMan View Post
I would like to see the game import historical players with the position they played most of their career if importing based on career stats. I know 2006 did a better job with starting pitchers but players like Jimmie Foxx should come in as
a 1B and not catcher when based on career stats. Or maybe have the game place proiritys on which position a player should learn based on the amount of games he played at that position. Thats one reason i use the arod/garlon career database so i dont have 1b being catchers.
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