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Old 09-20-2019, 03:47 PM   #21
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Frankly, I'd welcome seeing California get blacklisted from the NCAA. Their preening social justice nonsense now pervades all the formerly politics free areas of life
Yes
It's very bad that people can't just retreat into sports and pretend that bad things, sometimes even in sports, are happening.

It's ridiculous that people are making millions of dollars off of kids who get suspended if someone buys them lunch.

And it's ridiculous that these guys making millions from the university off of the kids' unpaid labor can get money from doing a TV show, a radio show, and doing appearances while the kids get nothing.

Plenty of people are getting a lot of money off these kids. It's exploitation, clear and simple.

And save me "they get an education".
Because often the schools cheat the kids out of even that.
And when they don't, it's still not commensurate with what the universities, coaches and administrators get.

If universities are going to have athletics, then it should be more like intramurals.

Let paid leagues replace the NCAA
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Old 09-20-2019, 04:01 PM   #22
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I don't think it will be only 20 teams breaking off. I think it will be 70-80, depending how radical they want to get. Some small schools like Wake Forest may decide they can't hang. Others may step in for the Power 5 teams that drop out. But like you said, they are going to want some cattle fodder in the mix to help feed the big heifers. And some schools will stay in whether they can compete or not because of pride. Loyalty to conference mates will also come into play. After all, this is more than just football involved.

But it is clear the needs and the resources in the bowl division has a wider gap than it has ever had. Paying players is going to ruin some programs because they can't possibly compete for the top notch talent. As soon as there is an agreement in place to allow players to receive money in salary or gift form that'll be a wrap for them.
There are only 130 Division I teams. I really don't see 50% wanting to break off. Especially just to be fodder for the big schools who will be free to offer even bigger inducements to the top players.
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Old 09-20-2019, 04:24 PM   #23
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Paying players is going to ruin some programs because they can't possibly compete for the top notch talent. As soon as there is an agreement in place to allow players to receive money in salary or gift form that'll be a wrap for them.
If you can't afford to pay your employees, you don't have a viable business model.

Somethings, say, education, even though they aren't profitable, are important enough to society that society pays for them. Mainly thorough taxes. College sports isn't one of those things
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Old 09-20-2019, 04:50 PM   #24
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There are only 130 Division I teams. I really don't see 50% wanting to break off. Especially just to be fodder for the big schools who will be free to offer even bigger inducements to the top players.
Maybe you are right. Maybe I am. It's all speculation Like I said, I think alumni pride will impede some teams to stay at the top level whether they can or not.
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Old 09-21-2019, 03:53 AM   #25
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So many unknowns at this point... about something that is likely to happen in some form eventually. But what form? If we're talking about allowing student athletes to make enough money for basic living expenses & walking-around money, that's one thing. But allowing them to profit off of their own image, etc., is quite another. That turns a high schooler into a multi-millionaire in short order. And without regards to whether that's right or wrong, it would have ramifications. Wouldn't, for example, end-of-the-bench Duke hoopsters have a huge advantage over non-star-but-still-starting linemen and linebackers at, say Michigan? (Simply because there are only about 11 or 12 Duke basketball players any given year, whereas there are many more football players; and imagine the advantage those end-of-the-bench hoopsters have over the last 40 or so guys on Michigan's football team)...

Geography would play a role, too, and not only if some teams are part of a pay league and others aren't...

And let's say we're talking big money, rather than a small stipend-like, even distribution. If it's a zero-sum game (not saying it would be, but it could be), then that money that the Univ's - besides lining their trustees' coffers - are using to support other, lower-revenue-generating sports would end up in the pockets of the star basketball and football players, mostly male in basketball and exclusively male in football. For that reason alone, I'm guessing that we are years and years away from something that pays college athletes unless it is extremely limited in scope and dollar amount. Otherwise, lawyers will be making a ton during years and years of litigation...

Last edited by thehef; 10-02-2019 at 04:22 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 09-30-2019, 12:46 PM   #26
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Fair Play Act signed by California governor.
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:01 PM   #27
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Fair Play Act is unfair to smaller states.
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:16 PM   #28
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Fair Play Act is unfair to smaller states.
I don't get that. Exactly how are programs on an even field now? Not as if things are currently balanced. The landscape will change for sure. But the "haves" are always going to be there. If it ain't the money, it's the prestige. If it ain't the prestige, it's the location. If it ain't the location it's something else. People who like the current status quo always preach gloom & doom when change comes. If there are colleges that don't like it, it is their own fault. Cause institutions, whether colleges, businesses or industries, always wait till change is forced on them to address clear injustices that favor them. Instead of being proactive & doing the right thing. Then they proclaim Armageddon's imminent arrival when anyone tries to address it. Now the governments are taking the decision away from them. Bout time.
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Old 09-30-2019, 06:20 PM   #29
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I don't get that. Exactly how are programs on an even field now? Not as if things are currently balanced. The landscape will change for sure. But the "haves" are always going to be there. If it ain't the money, it's the prestige. If it ain't the prestige, it's the location. If it ain't the location it's something else. People who like the current status quo always preach gloom & doom when change comes. If there are colleges that don't like it, it is their own fault. Cause institutions, whether colleges, businesses or industries, always wait till change is forced on them to address clear injustices that favor them. Instead of being proactive & doing the right thing. Then they proclaim Armageddon's imminent arrival when anyone tries to address it. Now the governments are taking the decision away from them. Bout time.
Let's see. Would I rather go to California where I can make $100,000 a year or Rhode Island where I can make $50 a year? The California's and Florida's and Texas' of the world already have enough of an advantage.
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Old 09-30-2019, 09:57 PM   #30
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Let's see. Would I rather go to California where I can make $100,000 a year or Rhode Island where I can make $50 a year? The California's and Florida's and Texas' of the world already have enough of an advantage.
Because Rhode Island will no longer be able to steal recruits from UCLA, Texas & Miami like they are now? Like I said, things are already unbalanced. You think Oregon, Ok St & Maryland don't take advantage of the fact they have a billionaire backing up their athletic programs?

This isn't about competitive balance. That isn't what these bills are about. It is about correcting an unfair weight players have to endure. Why should players be restricted from earning a living? What other group is put under such a condition?

Like I said before, if certain schools get pushed aside because of this, IT IS THEIR OWN FAULT for not taking care of this themselves instead of giving the government time to get off their tookus.
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Old 09-30-2019, 10:48 PM   #31
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I'm for paying student athletes, but I don't like the idea of state governments' dictating the policies of private universities. Shouldn't they be able to decide whether they pay their athletes or not? And athletes can choose whether to go there or not. The WSJ had a quote from the AD at Pepperdine worrying about the implications of the new law. It's one thing to mandate this for the UC schools; another to force this on places like Pepperdine.
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:04 PM   #32
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Because Rhode Island will no longer be able to steal recruits from UCLA, Texas & Miami like they are now? Like I said, things are already unbalanced. You think Oregon, Ok St & Maryland don't take advantage of the fact they have a billionaire backing up their athletic programs?

This isn't about competitive balance. That isn't what these bills are about. It is about correcting an unfair weight players have to endure. Why should players be restricted from earning a living? What other group is put under such a condition?

Like I said before, if certain schools get pushed aside because of this, IT IS THEIR OWN FAULT for not taking care of this themselves instead of giving the government time to get off their tookus.
I'm sure the big schools are happy to say it's not about competitive balance.
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:10 PM   #33
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I'm for paying student athletes, but I don't like the idea of state governments' dictating the policies of private universities. Shouldn't they be able to decide whether they pay their athletes or not? And athletes can choose whether to go there or not. The WSJ had a quote from the AD at Pepperdine worrying about the implications of the new law. It's one thing to mandate this for the UC schools; another to force this on places like Pepperdine.
The universities aren't paying athletes. The Fair Play act just doesn't allow the colleges to restrict them from getting paid for their name and likeness. No dime is coming from the u's, private or public.


Edit: one other thing. Everyone thinks only about the football and basketball side of it. This affects all sports. There are a lot of Olympic sports that athletes need sponsorships in order to train. But they have to forego their scholarship or the sponsorship.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:52 AM   #34
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California is forcing the NCAA's hand — and no, the college sports world isn’t going to end - Yahoo!Sports
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:12 AM   #35
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Heard some interesting talk about this bill, and its effects on some of the non-revenue sports. While the talk seems to be mostly about the big name athletes, the discussion was about players with the non-revenue sports being able to be paid to work in volleyball or swimming camps and get benefit from the camp using their name.

While most of us wouldn't know who the top women's volleyball players are, junior high and high school players probably would and the name would be a draw.

Overall, I don't mind the idea too much if there are controls. the idea was floated on Golic and Wingo today that if the deals are required to be in writing, this might bring a better level of accountability than we currently have now.
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:57 AM   #36
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Because Rhode Island will no longer be able to steal recruits from UCLA, Texas & Miami like they are now? Like I said, things are already unbalanced. You think Oregon, Ok St & Maryland don't take advantage of the fact they have a billionaire backing up their athletic programs?

This isn't about competitive balance. That isn't what these bills are about. It is about correcting an unfair weight players have to endure. Why should players be restricted from earning a living? What other group is put under such a condition?

Like I said before, if certain schools get pushed aside because of this, IT IS THEIR OWN FAULT for not taking care of this themselves instead of giving the government time to get off their tookus.
That makes no sense. It's the small schools fault for not being able to offer as much as big schools?
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:59 PM   #37
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That makes no sense. It's the small schools fault for not being able to offer as much as big schools?
It is their own fault that they didn't come up with a solution before the state stepped in. They could have come up with a plan that would have placated both sides. But no, the schools wanted complete control. Now it is out of their control. So I don't feel sorry for them. If they see a problem, even if it is to their advantage, they should fix it voluntarily. Or a greater power will fix it for them and leave them w/no advantage.
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:11 PM   #38
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It is their own fault that they didn't come up with a solution before the state stepped in. They could have come up with a plan that would have placated both sides. But no, the schools wanted complete control. Now it is out of their control. So I don't feel sorry for them. If they see a problem, even if it is to their advantage, they should fix it voluntarily. Or a greater power will fix it for them and leave them w/no advantage.
Not all problems have solutions. The solution is for athletes to be happy with scholarships or go overseas.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:14 PM   #39
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Not all problems have solutions. The solution is for athletes to be happy with scholarships or go overseas.
Just to make you happy. News flash: The world doesn't exist to make you happy.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:20 PM   #40
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Very reasonable argument.
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