Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.6 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 6 Available

FHM 6 Available Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Developments > Talk Sports

Talk Sports Discuss everything that is sports-related, like MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, MLS, NASCAR, NCAA sports and teams, trades, coaches, bad calls etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-11-2019, 11:55 AM   #241
Westheim
Hall Of Famer
 
Westheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 6,571
Thanks: 2,285
Thanked 4,681x in 2,684 posts
How is a 23-year-old prospect going to be tested for the majors in AAA when AAA is full of other 23-year-olds, 26-year-olds that didn't cut it the last three years, and 32-year-old has-beens that are hoping someone breaks a leg so they can get called up?
__________________
Portland Raccoons, 56 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here!
1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028
1 OSANAI
: 2 POWELL : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 28 CASAS : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO

Resident Mets Cynic



Westheim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:31 PM   #242
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,526
Thanks: 1,195
Thanked 3,594x in 2,174 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westheim View Post
How is a 23-year-old prospect going to be tested for the majors in AAA when AAA is full of other 23-year-olds, 26-year-olds that didn't cut it the last three years, and 32-year-old has-beens that are hoping someone breaks a leg so they can get called up?
By playing head and shoulders above those other 23 - 26 year olds, that's how.

The current system is to molly coddle kids through several different levels of minor leagues, only to make the decision of major league ability based on how well they play when called up to the majors.

Work your butt off in the minors, play better than everyone else in the minors. You'll get called up, don't worry.

I know, hard work seems to be a hard concept for a lot of people to comprehend these days, but it really does pay off.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner

Last edited by Bluenoser; 09-11-2019 at 12:33 PM.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 12:54 PM   #243
David Watts
Hall Of Famer
 
David Watts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks
Posts: 6,466
Thanks: 4,457
Thanked 4,442x in 2,315 posts
Infractions: 0/1 (1)
I've always felt things should be reversed with the first month of the season being when teams could use expanded rosters. It's cold out, players are rusty etc. in April. Let teams make use of the extra players till May 1st.
David Watts is offline   Reply With Quote
3 thanks for this post:
CBeisbol (09-11-2019), knightdreamer2k (09-12-2019), pgjocki (09-11-2019)
Old 09-11-2019, 01:38 PM   #244
Boomcoach
Minors (Double A)
 
Boomcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 156
Thanks: 79
Thanked 69x in 49 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
By playing head and shoulders above those other 23 - 26 year olds, that's how.

The current system is to molly coddle kids through several different levels of minor leagues, only to make the decision of major league ability based on how well they play when called up to the majors.

Work your butt off in the minors, play better than everyone else in the minors. You'll get called up, don't worry.

I know, hard work seems to be a hard concept for a lot of people to comprehend these days, but it really does pay off.
Expanded rosters have been around since 1921, so it seems a bit odd to get a "these kids nowadays" complaint about them. With a "molly-coddled" there, the only thing missing is a "get off my lawn" and a reference to "wait until the Millennials have to deal with the real world".

I have to wonder about your definition of "molly-coddling". Players earn an average of about $6K in Single A, and about $15K. No per diems, don't get paid during spring training or in fall leagues. Outside of the top prospects, they get to pay for their own equipment.

I am hardly a spring chicken myself, and there are plenty of changes I am not used to, but I don't think I have ever thought of minor league baseball as any sort of happy go lucky time.

Back to the idea of roster expansion, I don't think you get a true picture of how a prospect is doing, until you put him against some major league opposition, be it an injury call-up or fall expansion. I have always been uneasy about roster expansion because of the integrity of the games played, especially when my team is trying to catch up and the guys at the top are playing against a team with nothing prospects in the line up.
__________________
Boomcoach




Last edited by Boomcoach; 09-11-2019 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Correct Single A money from $6 to $6k
Boomcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
3 thanks for this post:
CBeisbol (09-11-2019), knightdreamer2k (09-12-2019), PocketsAintFull (09-11-2019)
Old 09-11-2019, 02:37 PM   #245
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,526
Thanks: 1,195
Thanked 3,594x in 2,174 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomcoach View Post
Expanded rosters have been around since 1921, so it seems a bit odd to get a "these kids nowadays" complaint about them. With a "molly-coddled" there, the only thing missing is a "get off my lawn" and a reference to "wait until the Millennials have to deal with the real world".

I have to wonder about your definition of "molly-coddling". Players earn an average of about $6K in Single A, and about $15K. No per diems, don't get paid during spring training or in fall leagues. Outside of the top prospects, they get to pay for their own equipment.

I am hardly a spring chicken myself, and there are plenty of changes I am not used to, but I don't think I have ever thought of minor league baseball as any sort of happy go lucky time.

Back to the idea of roster expansion, I don't think you get a true picture of how a prospect is doing, until you put him against some major league opposition, be it an injury call-up or fall expansion. I have always been uneasy about roster expansion because of the integrity of the games played, especially when my team is trying to catch up and the guys at the top are playing against a team with nothing prospects in the line up.
So who said it was a happy go lucky time?

At one point in time there were no minors either, but baseball managed to get by. The vast majority of minor leaguers never make it to the majors. The ones who work hard at maximizing their talent (funny, there's that "hard work" term again) make it to the bigs. Like I said, play hard, work hard, if you have the talent you'll get noticed and called up.

I stand by my original question - why do you need to bring them up to see if they're ready? If they're playing and working hard, they'll get called up. They'll get noticed because they'll stand out above their peers.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 03:18 PM   #246
Boomcoach
Minors (Double A)
 
Boomcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 156
Thanks: 79
Thanked 69x in 49 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
So who said it was a happy go lucky time?

At one point in time there were no minors either, but baseball managed to get by. The vast majority of minor leaguers never make it to the majors. The ones who work hard at maximizing their talent (funny, there's that "hard work" term again) make it to the bigs. Like I said, play hard, work hard, if you have the talent you'll get noticed and called up.

I stand by my original question - why do you need to bring them up to see if they're ready? If they're playing and working hard, they'll get called up. They'll get noticed because they'll stand out above their peers.
Maybe I misunderstood "molly coddle kids through several different levels of minor leagues", combined with " hard work seems to be a hard concept for a lot of people to comprehend these days". I thought you meant that the players were lazing their way through the minors.

True, the current style of minor-league organization didn't come about until the '30s, but its been here for quite a while.

The half a dozen to a dozen players who get brought up to the expanded rosters have been the one who stood above their peers, usually through that same hard work you mentioned, but it still helped teams to get a look at how they would do against major-league competition.

Is it "necessary", probably not, but it is a good evaluation tool. If a player can't make the transition from AA or AAA to the majors, or needs to work on something that you only realize when he reaches the top, the earlier a team finds out the better. It may mean having him work on something in the fall leagues and spring training, or it may mean realizing he isn't going to be productive at the top level, but teams like to find out as soon as possible.

Sorry if I over-reacted, but the snark about "hard work" being a concept people don't understand set my teeth on edge. While I am quite willing to throw out the occasional "in my day" at my kids, it is usually with a grin and a wink. People still work hard today and it still gets rewarded more than taking it easy does, in the vast majority of circumstances.
__________________
Boomcoach



Boomcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
CBeisbol (09-11-2019), knightdreamer2k (09-12-2019)
Old 09-11-2019, 03:45 PM   #247
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 3,019
Thanks: 308
Thanked 517x in 391 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Watts View Post
I've always felt things should be reversed with the first month of the season being when teams could use expanded rosters. It's cold out, players are rusty etc. in April. Let teams make use of the extra players till May 1st.
Nice idea. But teams already hold players back an extra month to delay the clock on their ML service time. So I wonder how that would out. But cool idea.
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 05:07 PM   #248
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,526
Thanks: 1,195
Thanked 3,594x in 2,174 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomcoach View Post
Maybe I misunderstood "molly coddle kids through several different levels of minor leagues", combined with " hard work seems to be a hard concept for a lot of people to comprehend these days". I thought you meant that the players were lazing their way through the minors.

True, the current style of minor-league organization didn't come about until the '30s, but its been here for quite a while.

The half a dozen to a dozen players who get brought up to the expanded rosters have been the one who stood above their peers, usually through that same hard work you mentioned, but it still helped teams to get a look at how they would do against major-league competition.

Is it "necessary", probably not, but it is a good evaluation tool. If a player can't make the transition from AA or AAA to the majors, or needs to work on something that you only realize when he reaches the top, the earlier a team finds out the better. It may mean having him work on something in the fall leagues and spring training, or it may mean realizing he isn't going to be productive at the top level, but teams like to find out as soon as possible.

Sorry if I over-reacted, but the snark about "hard work" being a concept people don't understand set my teeth on edge. While I am quite willing to throw out the occasional "in my day" at my kids, it is usually with a grin and a wink. People still work hard today and it still gets rewarded more than taking it easy does, in the vast majority of circumstances.
I don't say it with a grin, I say it with all seriousness. I see examples of it everyday. Far too many people trying to get a free ride rather than put in the work. That doesn't mean everyone, there are lots who work hard too.

If that sets your teeth on edge, that's on you. I make no apology for calling it the way I see it.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 05:20 PM   #249
David Watts
Hall Of Famer
 
David Watts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks
Posts: 6,466
Thanks: 4,457
Thanked 4,442x in 2,315 posts
Infractions: 0/1 (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
Nice idea. But teams already hold players back an extra month to delay the clock on their ML service time. So I wonder how that would out. But cool idea.
This could be a free period in regards to service time. Being called up in September doesn't effect option years does it?
David Watts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 06:12 PM   #250
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 3,019
Thanks: 308
Thanked 517x in 391 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Watts View Post
This could be a free period in regards to service time. Being called up in September doesn't effect option years does it?
I'm not sure. I am pretty sure the MLBPA would object to anything that would delay their players from getting the big money.
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 07:04 PM   #251
CBeisbol
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 96
Thanks: 67
Thanked 35x in 20 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Watts View Post
This could be a free period in regards to service time. Being called up in September doesn't effect option years does it?
A player has to be on the 40 man roster to play in September.
And they are accruing service time

They only use an option when they are removed from the active roster (unless placed on the DL, or similar)
CBeisbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
David Watts (09-11-2019)
Old 09-11-2019, 07:07 PM   #252
CBeisbol
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 96
Thanks: 67
Thanked 35x in 20 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
I'm not sure. I am pretty sure the MLBPA would object to anything that would delay their players from getting the big money.
Then they could try to bargain for, say, a reduction in the number of days to equal a full season. If it were just 140 to qualify for a full season, they'd almost certainly take it. It would be like getting service time for those 30 days anyway, but it wouldn't be confined to April

Or less years before free agency.
CBeisbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2019, 09:20 PM   #253
CBeisbol
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 96
Thanks: 67
Thanked 35x in 20 posts
Johnathan Villar hits the 6106th HR of the 2019 season

That's the most ever
CBeisbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 10:34 AM   #254
mirrf
All Star Starter
 
mirrf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bay Area, Ca
Posts: 1,799
Thanks: 753
Thanked 313x in 240 posts
Bruce Bochy joins the 2000 win club.
__________________
The only place to get reliable, unbiased political news is on an online baseball forum.

Ik hou van dansen in mijn kleine klompen.
mirrf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 04:32 PM   #255
madjac74
Minors (Double A)
 
madjac74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 117
Thanks: 18
Thanked 32x in 21 posts
How is Cisheck a major league pitcher on a playoff contending team? I just dont see it. Everytime I see him he is walking people all over the stadium and blowing leads.
madjac74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 04:41 PM   #256
CBeisbol
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 96
Thanks: 67
Thanked 35x in 20 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjac74 View Post
How is Cisheck a major league pitcher on a playoff contending team? I just dont see it. Everytime I see him he is walking people all over the stadium and blowing leads.
Probably because he pitches when you don't watch

He walks about 10% of hitters which is a bit above average.
His FIP and xFIP are about average too

He's something like an average reliever.
Playoff teams need average players
CBeisbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2019, 04:45 PM   #257
madjac74
Minors (Double A)
 
madjac74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 117
Thanks: 18
Thanked 32x in 21 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Probably because he pitches when you don't watch
Do you have a stat to prove this? And maybe he only walks people when its clutch time...like bases loaded in the bottom of the 10th
madjac74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2019, 11:28 PM   #258
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 3,019
Thanks: 308
Thanked 517x in 391 posts
Robo umps can't come fast enough.
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2019, 04:05 PM   #259
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,080
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks: 1,480
Thanked 3,799x in 2,155 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
Yes, I agree now. And NOT because it was a Yankee victimized in that video!

I know I stood up for humanity in the Robo Umps thread, but what I was not realizing at the time was, it's too late for that. Why? Because now you have overhead cameras and other technology such as the strike box superimposed on the TV screen.

These devices have already taken the humanity out of that aspect of the game and what is left is, frankly, human folly. Instead of honoring humanity, it is shown in a bad light. Umpires missing balls and strikes, and other calls, goes back to an era before instant replay, high definition, and jumbotron.

Do you want me to dig up that thread and say so? You make the call, Cobra Mgr.
__________________

- Bru


Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2019, 04:45 PM   #260
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 3,019
Thanks: 308
Thanked 517x in 391 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
Yes, I agree now. And NOT because it was a Yankee victimized in that video!

I know I stood up for humanity in the Robo Umps thread, but what I was not realizing at the time was, it's too late for that. Why? Because now you have overhead cameras and other technology such as the strike box superimposed on the TV screen.

These devices have already taken the humanity out of that aspect of the game and what is left is, frankly, human folly. Instead of honoring humanity, it is shown in a bad light. Umpires missing balls and strikes, and other calls, goes back to an era before instant replay, high definition, and jumbotron.

Do you want me to dig up that thread and say so? You make the call, Cobra Mgr.
Really??



Nah. I ain't like that. Especially when there is no right or wrong. The topic is an opinion. Better yet, a preference. No one has to apologize for wanting what they want.
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:32 PM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2018 Out of the Park Developments