MLB Teams that Almost Were

[thehef]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Considering that Ron Plaza was managing the St. Petersburg Cardinals at that time, I'm not sure why the author of that Wikipedia entry even mentioned his "proposal." It's not like Ron Plaza's opinion carried any weight.

Good point. I, too, was wondering why the "proposal" of a relatively obscure coach would've received notice, let alone serious consideration.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by echopapa

9. Cleveland Indians to Seattle (1964)
Indians owner William R. Daley visited Seattle in 1964 to determine if the city could support an MLB team. He decided against moving upon finding that Sick's Stadium wasn't up to major league standards.

Found this in an AP article printed 10/7/64:
"The Indians franchise is being wooed by Seattle, Atlanta, Oakland, and about eight other cities, which have not been named."

[Caporegime]

Here's an interesting article I found from December 1974 when I was researching the 1977 expansion draft.

Gettysburg Times - Google News Archive Search

Seattle getting one of the two expansion teams in 1977 was practically a fait accompli as a result of a massive lawsuit the city filed against MLB following the sudden loss of the Pilots just before ST in 1970, but I never realized how close New Orleans was to obtaining a franchise. The construction of the Superdome was almost enough to push New Orleans over the top, but apparently not quite. D.C. was also under serious consideration as well but also came up short.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Seattle getting one of the two expansion teams in 1977 was practically a fait accompli as a result of a massive lawsuit the city filed against MLB following the sudden loss of the Pilots just before ST in 1970, but I never realized how close New Orleans was to obtaining a franchise. The construction of the Superdome was almost enough to push New Orleans over the top, but apparently not quite. D.C. was also under serious consideration as well but also came up short.

Seattle was pretty much promised the next expansion franchise after the Pilots debacle. I'm not sure if New Orleans was ever really a serious contender. There are a lot of reasons why MLB would leak that kind of story to the press, but that doesn't mean that there was any truth behind the story.

What I found more interesting was this:

[Bowie] Kuhn shrugged off proposals by the National League's influential Walter O'Malley [owner of the Dodgers] that a third league be formed to encompass new franchises and/or that major league baseball purchase the Baltimore and Oakland franchises.

That's the first I've ever heard of that. I'm not sure how serious O'Malley was. Usually, when someone threatens to form a third league, it's a ploy to gain some kind of advantage or leverage in the established leagues. Maybe O'Malley wanted to buy into another team. Maybe he wanted to make sure the NL expanded at the same time as the AL (the AL went it alone in 1977). Maybe he wanted to expunge his sins and locate a new club in Brooklyn. Don't know. It would make for an interesting basis for a dynasty.

[rferry]

Originally Posted by TheEcstasyOfGold

Montreal Expos to Norfolk 2004
So everyone knows that baseball finally returned to Washington when the Expos left Montreal, but D.C. wasn't without speed bumps. Baltimore really tried everything they could to keep the Expos from moving to Washington because it was in the Orioles' designated MLB media market (from Harrisburg PA to Charlotte NC). One of the leading candidates at the time then became Norfolk (while Peter Angelos was steadfastly against them moving to DC or Loudon County VA, he was fine giving up Norfolk to Charlotte), where the team was going to be called the Norfolk Steamers with a battleship for a logo, in honor of the local Navy presence. The Norfolk Steamers had actually sold over 5,000 season tickets and had letters from various corporations for 75 luxury suites to the new 35,000 seat stadium before the announcement of who would get the team. Other suitors included Las Vegas; Monterrey, Mexico; Portland; and San Juan, Puerto Rico.

I remember that. DC and northern Virginia were leading candidates with the Virginia Baseball Club (well-prepared from their earlier attempt to court the Astros). Funny how people forget that the Expos had been on the way out of Montreal for years. Their local ownership gave up on the franchise and tried to sell in 2004. Having already given up, the local investors refused a series of cash calls allowing the one of one of them (Loria) to gain overwhelming majority control. Once the Yawkey Trust settled in Boston and the Marlins opened up an ownership spot, we were left with 29 ownership groups and MLB owning the Expos.

Also...
Astros to Washington, DC
McLane agreed to sell the club to the Virginia Baseball Club, but the deal was held up as MLB, Astros and Houston negotiated a truce and settlement to the club's complaints.
Astros County: Your Neighborhood Astros Blog & Grill: When Drayton almost moved the Astros to Virginia
BASEBALL - Astros to Virginia? It's All in a Whirl - NYTimes.com

[ThatSeventiesGuy]

There was a plan back in the 80s to move the Pirates to Indianapolis and call them the Arrows. Ironically, Indy is home of the Pirates AAA team now. Sadly, the Arrows only exist in my OOTP dynasty. What might have been...

Sports Franchise Relocations That Never Happened - Florida White Sox, Saskatoon Blues, More

[mgom27]

Orlando was rumored before Tampa Bay got the team. KC has been passed over for NBA/NHL teams because no owner.

[GMLoophole]

This is a very interesting thread, and a few weeks ago I pencilled out how the league would have evolved if many of these things happened. I agree that the LA Browns would really have changed an awful lot.

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

What I found more interesting was this:

[Bowie] Kuhn shrugged off proposals by the National League's influential Walter O'Malley [owner of the Dodgers] that a third league be formed to encompass new franchises and/or that major league baseball purchase the Baltimore and Oakland franchises.

I've never seen that quote, but I had that in mind for my (sadly dormant) Continental League projects, which you can see in my sig. The AL and NL end up as 8 team leagues, with the expansion franchises eventually in their own 16 team league. There's a lot of merit to the idea I think, especially if NY and LA had teams in the third league. Too bad Branch Rickey didn't get his way and baseball never got its AFL/ABA/WHL!

[Rayzor]

Originally Posted by mgom27

Orlando was rumored before Tampa Bay got the team. KC has been passed over for NBA/NHL teams because no owner.

NHL was in Kansas City w/the Scouts for 2 seasons back in the 1974-76, they became the Colorado Rockies then the New Jersey Devils.

[mgom27]

Yes they were same as Kansas City Kings in NBA.

[mm7607]

What would have happened had the Browns moved to LA yet failed terrible at the gates? Would teams had raced to Florida instead of Cali? Tampa Dodgers and Miami Giants And later the Orlando Angels and Jacksonville A's.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by mm7607

What would have happened had the Browns moved to LA yet failed terrible at the gates? Would teams had raced to Florida instead of Cali? Tampa Dodgers and Miami Giants And later the Orlando Angels and Jacksonville A's.

Very unlikely. In the decade after the end of the war, there was no southern city, with the possible exceptions of New Orleans and Houston, that were big enough to support a major league team. In 1950, for instance, Miami was smaller than Akron, Ohio and Tampa was smaller than Evansville, Indiana. The big population boom in Florida didn't really begin until the mid-1960s, at which point most of the franchise moves and the first round of expansion had already taken place.

[fhomess]

Originally Posted by thehef

Found this in an AP article printed 10/7/64:
"The Indians franchise is being wooed by Seattle, Atlanta, Oakland, and about eight other cities, which have not been named."

I don't see why any team would consider moving to a city that doesn't even have their act together enough to have settled on a name.

[thehef]

Another addition to this thread...

In 1932 there were apparently rumors that the St Louis Browns (yes, yet another rumor involving the Browns...) and the St Louis Cardinals might move to Montreal. (The rumors were not that both would move, but that apparently one, then the other had been approached...)

The Cardinal rumor was that John McGraw would take over the team in Montreal... McGraw was advising the owners of the Montreal Canadiens hockey club, Leo Dandurand and Joe Cattaranich.

The Browns rumor involved the two Canadiens' owners (who were also involved in other sports, including horse racing) approaching Browns owner Phil Ball about buying the team and moving it to Montreal...

By October of that year, Ball had said that he had listened to the two men, but had told them that "it was impossible to buy a club and move it to another city," and it was seen that if any club were to come to Montreal, it was more-likely to be the Cardinals...

[thehef]

Found another one... Cleveland to Minneapolis-St Paul, Houston, and other cities, in the late-50's...

From The Cleveland Indians Encyclopedia:

"Another factor in the (Oct. '57) firing of (GM Hank) Greenberg was that he and several unnamed stockholders had begun a behind-the-scenes campaign to relocate the franchise to Minneapolis-St. Paul."

"Despite the departure of Greenberg and the arrival of (Frank) Lane, other cities continued to bid for the Indians, including Houston, which in 1958 attempted to buy the team for six million dollars and move it to that city."

[tysnkole6]

Here is an article on some teams who almost relocated. I know the Pirates almost relocated to Colorado in the 80's.The franchise moves that almost happened ? The Hardball Times