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Earlier versions of OOTP: Technical Support Do you have a copy of OOTP Baseball 2006? Are you in need of help and assistance in running the game or do you have errors that you need help in resolving? This is your place!

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Old 06-07-2004, 08:43 PM   #1
JamesOOTP
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Loyalty, Patches, Drama

Quote:
Originally posted by Malleus Dei
Darryl's post scared the Hell out of me.
I doubt anyone cares much about what I think since I don't post much, but I've been a loyal fan since version 4.

DRAMA
We all love OOTP and reading the boards. Heck I play the game for about 2 hours a day monday through Friday, and read the new messages everyday. But really, why all the drama? Reading King MAL's "I'm gonna hyperventilate" take on everything provides me with some comic relief after a long day at work but....
the world's not ending yet & OOTP6 is still a great game.

LOYALTY
Markus and staff have been loyal throughout all versions. I doubt they will stop being loyal. Markus can make more money and still stay devoted to pleasing his fan base. Its not as if he's selling his soul.

PATCHES
OOTP is the best baseball sim on the market. As long as Markus is happy with his work and enjoys the unique relationship with his fan base I don't see why he would not correct the issues in version 6. Maybe just not as fast as we'd like.
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Old 06-07-2004, 09:59 PM   #2
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i've never been to a board without drama. Hell most of the time im the caause of the drama, see my posts a while back in the OT forum... ROFL... But I've chilled out a lot since then...

I think a lot of people are concerned about the direction of the game, especially more now after the merger and markus not being on much anymore.. OOTP6's release hasnt gone as smooth as the ones in the past..

Hopley it all gets fixxed soon and everyone is somewhat happy.

Last edited by zyk; 06-07-2004 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 06-07-2004, 10:32 PM   #3
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Re: Loyalty, Patches, Drama

Quote:
Originally posted by JamesOOTP

PATCHES
OOTP is the best baseball sim on the market. As long as Markus is happy with his work and enjoys the unique relationship with his fan base I don't see why he would not correct the issues in version 6. Maybe just not as fast as we'd like.
And actually, I do believe what some people called "bugs that's not fixed for a long long time" must not be considered bugs by Markus at all.
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Old 06-08-2004, 02:49 AM   #4
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Like career OBP not being accurate? That is a bug by any definition.
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Old 06-08-2004, 03:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by holyroller
Like career OBP not being accurate? That is a bug by any definition.
I think lots of database-related stuff like that probably are not considered essential.

For them to "survive" for such a long time pretty much proved gamers can still play and enjoy the game regardlessly.
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Old 06-08-2004, 03:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skipaway
I think lots of database-related stuff like that probably are not considered essential.

For them to "survive" for such a long time pretty much proved gamers can still play and enjoy the game regardlessly.
Oh sure you can. Why you would want to is beyond me. Maybe I should argue for why they shouldn't be included and then you can contradict me and argue my actual position better than I can
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Old 06-08-2004, 03:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by holyroller
Oh sure you can. Why you would want to is beyond me. Maybe I should argue for why they shouldn't be included and then you can contradict me and argue my actual position better than I can


Well, we all know he got some huge list of things he can do with OOTP, but nobody knows what his priority is.

I don't believe Markus did not fix certain old issues because he wasn't aware of it. It's much more likely he's thought about them and regarded them as minor or nonessential.
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Old 06-08-2004, 03:44 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skipaway


Well, we all know he got some huge list of things he can do with OOTP, but nobody knows what his priority is.

I don't believe Markus did not fix certain old issues because he wasn't aware of it. It's much more likely he's thought about them and regarded them as minor or nonessential.
Oh I don't disagree with that at all. I guess what I'm trying and failing to say is that there are a number of things like that which keep pilling up. They have been low on the list of priorities for so long that they are probably buried. I think it would be good for the game if Markus took some time out to fix the little things like the OBP and HRA once and for all. Basically clear some room on the dock for other issues that may potentialy arise down the road.

Now, I'm not going to say Markus has to do that, he's a free and sentient being and it is his game and his $ on the line. I'm only speaking for what I would like to see as a customer.
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Old 06-08-2004, 04:14 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by holyroller
Now, I'm not going to say Markus has to do that, he's a free and sentient being and it is his game and his $ on the line. I'm only speaking for what I would like to see as a customer.



I guess it's coding new features is probably more fun than fixing anceint bugs.

And I don't think we'd get the right OBP in OOTP6 since revamping database would not be considered until next version?
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Old 06-08-2004, 04:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by holyroller
I think it would be good for the game if Markus took some time out to fix the little things like the OBP and HRA once and for all.
Except that these are not in fact little fixes. From what I remember when Markus talked about these things, fixing these requires a major overhaul of the way he's written the database structure. And guess what happens when he overhauls the database structure? Backwards compatibility goes out the window. Can you imagine what the reaction would have been if he had said that you would not be able to port over your OOTP5 leagues into OOTP6?

It was much the same answer for another little issue, having a division hold up to 12 teams instead of the current 10. The way the game is structured does not allow this to be easily implemented, and thus to include it would make backwards compatibility difficult at best.

I've been of the opinion for awhile now that in order to get some of these kinds of things resolved, not to mention even more new things added, backwards compatibility at some point may have to be sacrificed. Personally, it's probably better to do that earlier rather than later, if it turns out to be necessary.

Now, if we want to be picky, we might ask why Markus designed the structure of the game the way he did since it apparently is not as flexible or accommodating or expandable as it could be. But that is hindsight, plus I doubt Markus in the beginning really realized just how much the game was going to grow.
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Old 06-08-2004, 05:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Now, if we want to be picky, we might ask why Markus designed the structure of the game the way he did since it apparently is not as flexible or accommodating or expandable as it could be. But that is hindsight, plus I doubt Markus in the beginning really realized just how much the game was going to grow.
I obviously don't know for sure, but with CM my first design was great for what I wanted to do at that time - however over the course of several years my ambitions for the engine increased and I stretched it severely with new features and ideas (and increased data in CM's case) ... this wasn't particular a case of a short-sighted design.

Simply that every design has limitations and when you make the original decisions you can't always anticipate the manner in which the game will evolve (especially the case with Sports sims as designers of them will often be partially lead by their fan base, this is the case with both CM and OOTP).
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Old 06-08-2004, 12:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Le Grande Orange
Except that these are not in fact little fixes. From what I remember when Markus talked about these things, fixing these requires a major overhaul of the way he's written the database structure. And guess what happens when he overhauls the database structure? Backwards compatibility goes out the window. Can you imagine what the reaction would have been if he had said that you would not be able to port over your OOTP5 leagues into OOTP6?

It was much the same answer for another little issue, having a division hold up to 12 teams instead of the current 10. The way the game is structured does not allow this to be easily implemented, and thus to include it would make backwards compatibility difficult at best.

I've been of the opinion for awhile now that in order to get some of these kinds of things resolved, not to mention even more new things added, backwards compatibility at some point may have to be sacrificed. Personally, it's probably better to do that earlier rather than later, if it turns out to be necessary.

Now, if we want to be picky, we might ask why Markus designed the structure of the game the way he did since it apparently is not as flexible or accommodating or expandable as it could be. But that is hindsight, plus I doubt Markus in the beginning really realized just how much the game was going to grow.
This post summed things up perfectly. It's not that Markus doesn't want to fix some of these issues (OBP, HRA tracking, etc). It's simply impossible with the current database due to the way it was designed years ago. I'm sure these issues will be addressed when the database gets expanded/tweaked for OOTP7.
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Old 06-08-2004, 01:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marc Vaughan
I obviously don't know for sure, but with CM my first design was great for what I wanted to do at that time - however over the course of several years my ambitions for the engine increased and I stretched it severely with new features and ideas (and increased data in CM's case) ... this wasn't particular a case of a short-sighted design.
I'll never understand why you didn't include a feature that let the player continue managing without getting fired.

I was never very good at CM, but enjoyed it when I played it, even though it did not include the ability to create my own football universe (yes, I'm the guy who nagged you about this in the past).

Problem is, I never was able to last more than one season and part of a second before getting fired. Even when I *started* to turn a team around in my 2nd season as manager, I always got fired. That's freaking discouraging, Marc. I loved CM but never got a chance to really 'get into' managing a team.

And the CM boards were a very unfriendly place for people like me who just wanted to get some basic help on how to survive as a manager.

CM--I have the 01/02 version-- is a great game but it just stopped being fun a long, long time ago. The last couple of days I've even thought about uninstalling it.

The ability to go on managing without getting fired REALLY (really!) SHOULD HAVE been incorporated into the game. I even politely mentioned that on the CM boards and got laughed at by a bunch of very smug Europeans.
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Old 06-08-2004, 01:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by sporr
This post summed things up perfectly. It's not that Markus doesn't want to fix some of these issues (OBP, HRA tracking, etc). It's simply impossible with the current database due to the way it was designed years ago. I'm sure these issues will be addressed when the database gets expanded/tweaked for OOTP7.
I think my point was that since database expansion was scheduled later than some other features that made into OOTP6, apparently it's not that important on the list of things to do by Markus.

And apparently Markus believed gamers can survive without it fixed in OOTP6.
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Old 06-08-2004, 03:23 PM   #15
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Re: Loyalty, Patches, Drama

Quote:
Originally posted by JamesOOTP
Reading King MAL's "I'm gonna hyperventilate" take on everything provides me with some comic relief after a long day at work but....
Gee, you provide me with comic relief too; I always laugh at really stupid people.

If you aren't smart enough to recognize that there really is a problem then go look at the numbers on the OOTP6 satisfaction poll. For earlier versions, that poll would have been running 90%+ positive, but for OOTP6 it's running about 40%-45% negative. That's quite literally unheard of.

But if you want to go on dreaming that they aren't any problems and that nothing is wrong, well, feel free. Ignorance is bliss, and you can go on being the happiest of men.
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Old 06-08-2004, 03:25 PM   #16
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Re: Loyalty, Patches, Drama

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OOTP is the best baseball sim on the market.
That's not true.

Diamond Mind Baseball is the best single-season baseball sim on the market. OOTP can't even touch it on a single-season replay basis, and never could.

OOTP is the best *career-based* baseball sim on the market.
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Old 06-08-2004, 03:59 PM   #17
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LGO and sporr,

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense now. I had always wondered why they hadn't been fixed since Markus is a smart guy and such
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Old 06-08-2004, 03:59 PM   #18
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OOTP6 is my first foray into this type of baseball simulation and to say the least I thoroughly enjoy the game. I understand everbody's concerns about the apparent bugs and problems with OOTP6 and only long time users that have played the previous versions can compare those to the latest version, whereas I cannot. However, I am amazed at how much support the developer gives to this game and tries to address the various bugs and fixes. Think about it, there has been two patches released already and the game has been on the market only two months! And I don't think this is because the game was so flawed in the first place that it needed two patches but rather that the developer is truly interested in improving their product. You will never get this much attention and support from the bigger software companies who release one patch and then go on to the next version. Thanks you Markus for a great game!
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Old 06-08-2004, 04:01 PM   #19
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Most small developers are better about patches than the big software companies are, and Markus has historically been better about patches than almost all other small developers.
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Old 06-08-2004, 09:04 PM   #20
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Re: Re: Loyalty, Patches, Drama

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Originally posted by Malleus Dei
But if you want to go on dreaming that they aren't any problems and that nothing is wrong, well, feel free. Ignorance is bliss, and you can go on being the happiest of men.
I never said there wasn't any problems poncho. By the way, I see a grammatical error in your last post. It should be: "but if you want to go on dreaming that there...

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