Personality and character attributes

Acuna Matata · 09-15-2018, 07:26 AM

Ive been tinkering about with how to sort the wheat from the chaff as early as possible in my players development which has led me to look at the personality and character traits they are given by the game.
I have been sorting new recruits by personality type for a while in Football Manager and this has generally been successful as the hard working player who also has good decision making/intelligence is usually the one who is able to reach potential and have a successful career.
It was literally only a few days ago that i started to use the same method in OOTP as i realised that in the Personality and Morale tab you could also sort players by work ethic and intelligence.
This has immediately saved me loads of time and im tending to release any new players my scout finds that have low ratings for work ethic and intelligence.
One shortcut im finding for this is that the the one line write up in the player page tends to describe their overall personality and any mention of lack of hustle always tends to marry with low work ethic, where as being described as taking a while to understand new ideas generally means low intelligence.
It may be that its not as clear cut as this across the board as ive just signed a player who has had several excellent and productive seasons in MLB but is described as lacking hustle and shows as a low work ethic in the Personality tab.
Anyone else’s thoughts on this would be really valued as im sure its not as clear cut as it appears

Sharkn20 · 09-15-2018, 08:06 PM

Low Work Ethic means shorter careers in OOTP normally... But they can still have a fantastic peak regardless...

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

quillenl · 09-16-2018, 08:41 AM

All things being equal I take the high work ethic... but that seldom is the case. As mentioned, that draftee may have an awesome career right up to 32. I'd prefer that to an average player that hangs on till 40 under most circumstances.

TGH-Adfabre · 09-16-2018, 11:22 AM

I rank personality at the bottom of the list. It is a tie breaker but talent and potential rule the day. If I played with less accurate scouts I would probably weigh it a little more although I do not know if scouting blurs the accuracy of personality ratings.

NoOne · 09-18-2018, 01:51 PM

Scouting budget, good scout with mil scouting, time... the last one is a bigly huge factor from Rookie-to-AA, but A-ball is fairly accurate, compared to S-A and Rookie levels.

mil scouting is underrated in the forums and in AI scouting budgets. look around a league and it is likely the lowest budget for most teams. an insane budget and legendary scout will not produce miracles. an 18 year old in Rookie is still a crapshoot, but less of one. it has numerous effects due to the improved information you receive -- trades and development. the type of trades that give you ~7-10years or more with a player and not a 2-3 year rental.

by the time players are in mlb they are a fairly known quantity, and if not, within ~1 it's evident to 95% of league. don't spend too much on that budget. find "good enough" and more money for mil / amatuer

low work ethic does reduce probability of developing too. not my work, but there is a thread on this subject with a youtube link and video of a rudimentary test that was obvious enough to see a correlation. believe it is last year's forum? find with google and some keywords on the subject

unfortunately, he didn't include intelligence while looking at what % developed -- same player ?cloned? with different personality ratings, if i recall. intelligence is also a part of probability of developement. think manual mentions both? in the youtube video, if irecall, there were more at the top who had both good attributes.. and few at the bottom.

anyway, like others said, talent --potential for a prospect or current ability for an established ML-level player -- above all else.. obviously, you have no concern about an ml-level guy developing more for the most part, but his work ethic (and others?) definitely have an effect on aging curve of ratings (lack of better word to be more encompassing).

--------

you want a rich mil system? build up a strong team, first... then don't cling to anyone. trade for prospects before the current player's ratings degrade and still in their late-prime... even if it's last year's big free agent signing, if it makes you better.

the prospects you target with those initial trades should be to replace players in the future. overshoot by ~2 years and can always trade an existing player early... trading late is bad and ruins the return. you cannot predict, but you can err on the proper side to avoid problems easily. (by overshoot by 2 years, i don't reference contract lenght so much as age... too old to trade, too old to rely on etc, but obviously contract must also cover the gap)

the first cycle of doing this, you may still need some FA signings in the first few years... after that, a cavalcade of prospects at the needed positions should be progressing through system... trade off extra when you can. plus, an occasional FA-signing as you learn to avoid such things. staggering this stuff is easy, if you stick to the 'early not late' concept i just mentioned about overshooting by 2 years. it's not about when the contract runs out, but the usefulness/age of player. the contract should overshoot this, and your prosepct's development hsuld be worst case scenario length.

anyone that doesn't take a 'cheap' extension, make sure to trade before you lose club control. when trading bigger contracts with too much term left, you have to get rid of those guys early in offseason if you want to have a choice in what you get in return (budget speace on other teams so you don't have to take money dump 1-year contracts to even out trade).

the Salaries page in Front office is an awesome tool to plan for the future. in general, when i sort by columns i only have to replace 1-2 players, if any, in any given year. spreading this stuff out makes the system possible. it's easy to acquire a great high-quality prospect every 2 years or so... it's impossible to acquire multiple high quality prospects every single year.

more than 2-3 years out i am not too worried if a ton of players need to be replaced (extensions and promotions likely in most cases that far out)... but the next ~3 years i make sure there aren't any huge "steps" down as i sort the columns on this page. (*steps - games due to players without contracts in list, if sorted properly it is an easy visual aid on this page)

this may seem like extra info, but the demand you put on your MiL system is part of the same whole. don't demand too much over too short of a time, and it can provide all that you need in near perpetuity.

most of your players won't be drafted by you after a short time. you'll still get a few surprises at ~30th in first round, but more likely a trade asset. don't draft based on need... draft by greatest value. even more money can be dumped into MiL scouting, lol. i do 6M-mlb, 10mil, 8M amatuer.

try this until it works, and when it does, if you ever win less than 120 in a year it's a travesty. this works in every sports simulation ever since the 1980's that includes a career mode

Brad K · 09-18-2018, 11:40 PM

I play with real players. My position is the results of all that personality stuff is already in their ratings so I turn it off. I think personality is only suitable for game created players. But that's just me.

NoOne · 09-19-2018, 10:19 AM

you'll have them, shortly. within a few years you have fictional players in your draft. (variable amount of time per ootp release, maybe? some guys get drafted etc, maybe not same # every year in the amatuer db)

i think they try to match personality to the player too. with so many, i'm sure some of it is glossed over. fwiw, jd martinez long before he got his ratings boosts to match current play had a high intelligence, at the least, and he had that rep before he got to the tigers too. maybe coincedental, and i'm sure you'll find plenty of players you know well that may not be well-resolved in their personality.

still lots of reasons to leave it off, not trying to convince you of anything. but, the fictional players thing above fits your own words.

Brad K · 09-19-2018, 08:18 PM

I play early/mid 60s to 80s or 90s, only once longer.

I've been adding things as I play additional games. Only recently went from historical rookies to draft.

09-15-2018, 07:26 AM	#1
Acuna Matata Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 32	Personality and character attributes Ive been tinkering about with how to sort the wheat from the chaff as early as possible in my players development which has led me to look at the personality and character traits they are given by the game. I have been sorting new recruits by personality type for a while in Football Manager and this has generally been successful as the hard working player who also has good decision making/intelligence is usually the one who is able to reach potential and have a successful career. It was literally only a few days ago that i started to use the same method in OOTP as i realised that in the Personality and Morale tab you could also sort players by work ethic and intelligence. This has immediately saved me loads of time and im tending to release any new players my scout finds that have low ratings for work ethic and intelligence. One shortcut im finding for this is that the the one line write up in the player page tends to describe their overall personality and any mention of lack of hustle always tends to marry with low work ethic, where as being described as taking a while to understand new ideas generally means low intelligence. It may be that its not as clear cut as this across the board as ive just signed a player who has had several excellent and productive seasons in MLB but is described as lacking hustle and shows as a low work ethic in the Personality tab. Anyone else’s thoughts on this would be really valued as im sure its not as clear cut as it appears

09-16-2018, 08:41 AM	#3
quillenl All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 568	All things being equal I take the high work ethic... but that seldom is the case. As mentioned, that draftee may have an awesome career right up to 32. I'd prefer that to an average player that hangs on till 40 under most circumstances. __________________

09-16-2018, 11:22 AM	#4
TGH-Adfabre Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,599	I rank personality at the bottom of the list. It is a tie breaker but talent and potential rule the day. If I played with less accurate scouts I would probably weigh it a little more although I do not know if scouting blurs the accuracy of personality ratings. __________________ You mock me, therefore I am My wife

09-18-2018, 01:51 PM	#5
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	Scouting budget, good scout with mil scouting, time... the last one is a bigly huge factor from Rookie-to-AA, but A-ball is fairly accurate, compared to S-A and Rookie levels. mil scouting is underrated in the forums and in AI scouting budgets. look around a league and it is likely the lowest budget for most teams. an insane budget and legendary scout will not produce miracles. an 18 year old in Rookie is still a crapshoot, but less of one. it has numerous effects due to the improved information you receive -- trades and development. the type of trades that give you ~7-10years or more with a player and not a 2-3 year rental. by the time players are in mlb they are a fairly known quantity, and if not, within ~1 it's evident to 95% of league. don't spend too much on that budget. find "good enough" and more money for mil / amatuer low work ethic does reduce probability of developing too. not my work, but there is a thread on this subject with a youtube link and video of a rudimentary test that was obvious enough to see a correlation. believe it is last year's forum? find with google and some keywords on the subject unfortunately, he didn't include intelligence while looking at what % developed -- same player ?cloned? with different personality ratings, if i recall. intelligence is also a part of probability of developement. think manual mentions both? in the youtube video, if irecall, there were more at the top who had both good attributes.. and few at the bottom. anyway, like others said, talent --potential for a prospect or current ability for an established ML-level player -- above all else.. obviously, you have no concern about an ml-level guy developing more for the most part, but his work ethic (and others?) definitely have an effect on aging curve of ratings (lack of better word to be more encompassing). -------- you want a rich mil system? build up a strong team, first... then don't cling to anyone. trade for prospects before the current player's ratings degrade and still in their late-prime... even if it's last year's big free agent signing, if it makes you better. the prospects you target with those initial trades should be to replace players in the future. overshoot by ~2 years and can always trade an existing player early... trading late is bad and ruins the return. you cannot predict, but you can err on the proper side to avoid problems easily. (by overshoot by 2 years, i don't reference contract lenght so much as age... too old to trade, too old to rely on etc, but obviously contract must also cover the gap) the first cycle of doing this, you may still need some FA signings in the first few years... after that, a cavalcade of prospects at the needed positions should be progressing through system... trade off extra when you can. plus, an occasional FA-signing as you learn to avoid such things. staggering this stuff is easy, if you stick to the 'early not late' concept i just mentioned about overshooting by 2 years. it's not about when the contract runs out, but the usefulness/age of player. the contract should overshoot this, and your prosepct's development hsuld be worst case scenario length. anyone that doesn't take a 'cheap' extension, make sure to trade before you lose club control. when trading bigger contracts with too much term left, you have to get rid of those guys early in offseason if you want to have a choice in what you get in return (budget speace on other teams so you don't have to take money dump 1-year contracts to even out trade). the Salaries page in Front office is an awesome tool to plan for the future. in general, when i sort by columns i only have to replace 1-2 players, if any, in any given year. spreading this stuff out makes the system possible. it's easy to acquire a great high-quality prospect every 2 years or so... it's impossible to acquire multiple high quality prospects every single year. more than 2-3 years out i am not too worried if a ton of players need to be replaced (extensions and promotions likely in most cases that far out)... but the next ~3 years i make sure there aren't any huge "steps" down as i sort the columns on this page. (steps - games due to players without contracts in list, if sorted properly it is an easy visual aid on this page) this may seem like extra info, but the demand you put on your MiL system is part of the same whole. don't demand too much over too short of a time, and it can provide all that you need in near perpetuity. most of your players won't be drafted by you after a short time. you'll still get a few surprises at ~30th in first round, but more likely a trade asset. don't draft based on need... draft by greatest value. even more money can be dumped into MiL scouting, lol. i do 6M-mlb, 10mil, 8M amatuer. try this until it works, and when it does, if you ever win less than 120 in a year it's a travesty. this works in every sports simulation ever since the 1980's that includes a career mode Last edited by NoOne; 09-18-2018 at 01:56 PM.*

09-15-2018, 08:06 PM	#2
Sharkn20 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 287	Low Work Ethic means shorter careers in OOTP normally... But they can still have a fantastic peak regardless... Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

09-18-2018, 11:40 PM	#6
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 5,420	I play with real players. My position is the results of all that personality stuff is already in their ratings so I turn it off. I think personality is only suitable for game created players. But that's just me.

09-19-2018, 10:19 AM	#7
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	you'll have them, shortly. within a few years you have fictional players in your draft. (variable amount of time per ootp release, maybe? some guys get drafted etc, maybe not same # every year in the amatuer db) i think they try to match personality to the player too. with so many, i'm sure some of it is glossed over. fwiw, jd martinez long before he got his ratings boosts to match current play had a high intelligence, at the least, and he had that rep before he got to the tigers too. maybe coincedental, and i'm sure you'll find plenty of players you know well that may not be well-resolved in their personality. still lots of reasons to leave it off, not trying to convince you of anything. but, the fictional players thing above fits your own words.

09-19-2018, 08:18 PM	#8
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 5,420	I play early/mid 60s to 80s or 90s, only once longer. I've been adding things as I play additional games. Only recently went from historical rookies to draft.