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11-23-2016, 05:25 PM | #21 |
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Tim Raines
Ivan Rodriguez Vladimir Guerrero Trevor Hoffman Jeff Bagwell Larry Walker Gary Sheffield Fred McGriff Lee Smith Last edited by klavier; 12-13-2016 at 06:09 PM. Reason: had some names twice |
12-01-2016, 05:05 PM | #22 |
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Would love to see Mussina get in.
on a related note, I emailed a heartfelt letter to the Commissioner of Baseball's office, rendering my opinion that it's time to end the nonsense with Pete Rose and let him get in the HOF while he's still alive. Didn't even get a response acknowledging my communication. Just another disconnect.
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12-13-2016, 11:31 AM | #23 | |
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Quote:
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12-13-2016, 12:23 PM | #24 | |
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E. Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate. The Commissioner would have to remove him from the ineligible list, or the Hall of Fame would have to remove the rule (which they won't).
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12-13-2016, 01:12 PM | #25 | |
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12-13-2016, 08:05 PM | #26 |
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Since I presumably would not be allowed to just put Tim Raines on it 10 times, I'd probably go with the top-10 in JAWS since they're all deserving and no one else really sticks out to me:
Bonds Clemens Schilling Bagwell Mussina Walker Martinez Raines Ramirez Rodriguez
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"I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech |
01-08-2017, 10:26 PM | #27 |
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Murray Chass intentionally turned in a blank Hall of Fame ballot | HardballTalk
If this guy doesn't have ballot credentials pulled, maybe it is time to just stop bothering.
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01-09-2017, 01:35 PM | #28 | |
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01-09-2017, 03:18 PM | #29 | |
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That said, it doesn't seem that Chass believes the latter. It seems he's only doing because his voting annoys people he doesn't like, "How could I relinquish my vote knowing how much it annoys you? I plan to vote a year from now even if I just send in a blank ballot.". For that, he should have his voting rights pulled. I have some questions about the process: 1) What exactly happens when you abstain? I saw Olney abstains because he says that somehow increases the chances of worthy guys getting in. That doesn't make much sense to me. If anything, I think it only helps the guys you weren't going to vote for (maybe there are more than 10 guys you want to vote for?) who are in danger of falling off the ballot. I suppose some of the guys who fall off the ballot now might have had a chance 10 years from now given how many most people vote for now. But I have difficulty seeing how he's helping the cause of the guys he believes are the best of those he belives belong. Apparently Olney wants the system to change. How? Does he want voters to have an unlimited # of votes? 2) I understand the Hall "purges" the voting rights of writers who haven't written baseball in 10 years. What do they count as writing? Do blogs count, do forum posts count? There certainly aren't many newspaper baseball writers anymore and while there are lots of online baseball writers, I wonder how they determine who among them get votes now. 3) How do we feel about this purge? I'm not sure not "writing" about the sport for 10 years should necessarily mean you should lose your ballot. Presumably a lot of those writers follow baseball until the day they die. And while I read that this purge was meant to make the voters more in tune with who deserved to be in the hall of fame, I'm not sure it does because it seems like we now have more writers who have only been covering baseball for a little over 10 years when the careers of many of the players they are voting on started long before these writers started covering baseball. Yes, a lot of them probably followed baseball since they were kids, but I'm not sure I want my hall of fame decided by people who saw most of these players' careers when they were children. I'm not sure what a better solution would be, but I think I might rather take away a voter's rights at a certain age, say 75 (before a lot of us presumably start to lose our minds), and require them to be a certain age before they get the right to vote, say 45 (that would ensure they saw most if not all of the eligible players' careers past the voter's age of 10, factoring in a 10-20 year career, the 5 year waiting period, and 10 max years on the ballot). This is a great article which says how far more than just writers should be voters and how the purge is more about trying to get some PED users into the Hall than it is about trying to remove voters like Chass and others whom many people feel shouldn't get to vote. |
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01-09-2017, 04:40 PM | #30 |
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Honestly, if you're a small Hall voter, and you're not voting for steroids users, this is a pretty thin crop. Raines hasn't gotten in despite multiple chances, Pudge and Bagwell have both been tied to steroids, although the ties are unproven, and Vlad probably isn't as good a candidate as Edgar Martinez, who has failed to get in despite multiple chances.
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01-09-2017, 05:29 PM | #31 | |
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Yeah, the numbers will likely only go down as people who don't publicly release their ballots probably don't so they don't have to face backlash for voting for fewer than the max, but the early votes are at least somewhat of an indicator that we might see a few make it this year. |
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01-09-2017, 05:37 PM | #32 |
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I don't get how a writer can leave Raines off for 10 years and then all of a sudden decide, "Well, it's his last year, let's put him in." IT's not like it says in the HOF that a guy was a 15th ballot HOF guy. We know it, but once your'e in...you're in. Why make a guy wait just because he's not QUITE as impressive.
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01-09-2017, 06:55 PM | #33 |
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I agree here because I could not vote for steroid users to enter Baseball's Hall of Fame.
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- Bru Last edited by Déjà Bru; 01-09-2017 at 06:57 PM. |
01-10-2017, 01:22 PM | #34 | |
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Was 50% of the league using? 60? 70? My stance is to take the best of the era and put them in regardless of proof/innuendo/whatever because they were competing against an unlevel playing field, and I'll never be able to sort out the cheaters from the clean guys with 100% accuracy. I wholeheartedly understand not wanting to give the highest individual honour a player can receive to a player who cheated the game, but I just can't elect myself judge/jury/executioner because I don't feel qualified to make these judgements. Maybe folks see that as a copout, but I see it as reality. Neither trying to be an ass, nor to attack your point of view, just saying rather than seeing the era in black and white, I'm seeing a whole bunch of gray. |
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01-10-2017, 05:00 PM | #35 | |
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I say keep out that main suspects and let the veterans committee put them in if they are HOF worthy. Piazza got in and he was under suspicion. Bagwell looks like he will get in and he was under suspicion. MLB Network believes the others will get in soon as well.
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01-10-2017, 09:40 PM | #36 |
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You have to be fan of a pretty small HoF if you don't think the second greatest leadoff hitter of all time is deserving of enshrinement. Or one of the top 10 first basemen of all time.
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01-10-2017, 09:42 PM | #37 |
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When was Bagwell linked to PEDs?
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"I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "I was very fortunate to have a pitching coach by the name of Tom House...Tom, I really miss those days that we spent in the weight room and out on the field working together." -- Nolan Ryan's HoF Induction Speech |
01-10-2017, 10:00 PM | #38 |
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He goes under the innuendo cloud. Perhaps fair, perhaps not. He's a HoFer for me, but like I said I see a whole lot of gray instead of black and white when it comes to any baseball from 1987ish forward and the HoF. Others see it quite differently and that's fine. I'm not going to get worked into a stew about it. I've stated what I feel about it and why I feel that way, and I leave it to others to decide how they see it. What I don't understand is the Jon Heymans of the world who see fit to vote for Bonds but not Clemens. That makes less than zero sense to me, but it's his interpretation of a very difficult time for baseball.
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01-10-2017, 10:05 PM | #39 | |
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Last edited by actionjackson; 01-10-2017 at 10:07 PM. |
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01-15-2017, 11:57 AM | #40 |
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Based on this mini-survey of writers, if representative of the whole, Vlad and Trevor are in and Jeff, Edgar, Tim, and Ivan each have a good chance. It could be a big class of inductees this year.
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